21 Replies Latest reply on Aug 15, 2016 12:29 PM by Pickory

    Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around

    kzmiller Level 1

      I received an idml file created by the Cloud version of InDesign. When I opened it in in CS 5 Indesign (7.0.4), I was immediately struck by red strikethroughs and tags all over the page. I assumed it was some sort of artifact, and didn't worry about it too much since the markings didn't show up in Preview and there were no errors in preflight. I did try to get rid of them by looking through the tracking window to see if maybe it was some sort of tracking thing, but tracking wasn't turned on. I wasn't surprised, as my tracking colors didn't show up when I added text (though all the added text had strikethrough). The running header also had a strikethrough, and I seriously doubt he would have tampered with that.

      Screen Shot 2016-08-13 at 7.44.47 PM.png

      Screen Shot 2016-08-13 at 8.05.59 PM.png

      When I went to replace a placeholder image with a higher resolution image scaled for the page, I found that I couldn't drag the old image within its frame out of the way. I tried to drag the text frame across from it just in case, and I couldn't move that one either. I opened a previously non-problematic file and I couldn't drag those frames around either. I can change the frame size at will, but that's a really slow way to work and anyway, it doesn't help with moving the image within the frame. I can change the size of the image, but that's really awkward and a suboptimal way to work, to use resizing the image into position within the frame.

      I found a protocol for resetting the preferences to the default in order to deal with the frame moving issue per a thread here on the Adobe forums. Thank goodness that I saved the old ones because resetting the cache and the preferences did nothing to solve the problem. And of course the mysterious marks remained. I've been working with InDesign long enough that I feel like I should be familiar with these markings, but they have me stumped. I went through various tools and view options trying to get rid of them, to no avail. I can live with them, since they won't show up in print, but this frame problem is making me crazy. I can't work this way. The low resolution images have captions attached to them. I want to take the high resolution images, place them, and caption them with a text box. To properly transcribe the caption, I have to have both images on the screen at the same time.

      Unfortunately I can't adopt any Cloud services. I'm in a rural area, and our internet is not only spotty, but very slow and I don't have a lot of data. (I pay handsomely for the small allotment of data they give me, and I have one of the 'premium' packages.) It's impractical for me to move so that I can work.

      Also unfortunately, the person that I'm working with is using InDesign for the first time. He signed up for a month so that he could index the book, and I have no idea what he might have done on his end other than the indexing. I doubt that he knows what he's done himself.

      Any ideas?

        • 1. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
          Derek Cross Level 6

          I think the red lines might be caused by a script (maybe StyleLighter) that's running that shows local Styles over-rides.

           

          Regarding the frames, it might be worth checking to see if they are on a Master page and that's why you can't move them.

           

          By the way, you don't "work in the cloud" with the latest versions of InDesign, you download the application on to your computer and use it in the normal way, Adobe checks (I think once a month, maybe longer), via the internet, that you're up-to-date with your subscription, so you don't need a good internet connection to use InDesign. If you only need to use it occasionally, you can just subscribe for the odd month as required.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
            Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

            From CC 2015 you have an addition in the UI of the text style panels a [+] symbol button which switches from showing manual overrides with markers. This functionality was here before, if this is turned on in a file, saved as IDML and opened in older versions, you will see it also.

            As it is not a good idea to work with manual overried you should better create new correct styles rather turning off this functionality.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
              kzmiller Level 1

              That's good to know re: the Cloud. Thank you. I would ultimately prefer to use the latest version, especially when collaborating with someone. When I'm working by myself then CS5 works fine (usually ....)

              • 4. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                kzmiller Level 1

                Since a novice is changing things on the document, I suspect that he is manually changing things instead of using the Styles. I think if I tried to educate him about it, his head might explode, plus he would have to redo all that work ...

                I hope that's what's going on. Obviously with the frames issues there must be something that's unhappy.

                As for the frames being part of the master sheet, that's definitely not what's going on. They're text boxes and objects. The only stuff I have on the master sheets right now involves the running header. Book title on the left and current page number, section and current page number on the right.

                • 5. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                  Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                  Styles should be learned in the beginning, not if someone is trained. It is a huge mistake when people learn in the beginniung doing things wrong. They will never see the advantage of styles if they learned to work with manual overrides.

                  • 6. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                    kzmiller Level 1

                    I strongly agree that everyone should learn styles, not just in InDesign but Word. Having said that, this person is putting together one book, will never write another, never intends to work in InDesign ever again, and wouldn't even be working in InDesign in the first place except that it would be impossibly awkward for him to list all the italicized text he wants italicized and so forth only to have me then laboriously go through his list and put them in for him. I have no idea what other changes he might have made on the way. As for the indexing, the book would not return the amount of money it would cost to pay someone to read the book and then index it for him, assuming he would even agree with their choices of what should be indexed and what shouldn't. He was very resistant to learning indexing, despite the fact that I pointed him to a clear video tutorial, and was convinced it would take him a month just to learn how to do it. Any time I suggest that he does any work on his own (that honestly should have been done right the first time, and he really shouldn't be copy editing at this stage!) he's very upset by the suggestion that he might have to learn a new skill.

                    I'm not convinced that manual overrides are what those marks are, but I'm willing to entertain the possibility because it makes sense and because I'm working with someone who doesn't understand any but the most basic features on modern word processors.

                    • 7. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                      Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                      With manual overrides you can't create reliable EPUBs, no PDF/UA and you have a lot wrong formatted content and a lot more of work. If someone is not capable to work with styles, he should neither use Word nor InDesign.

                      • 8. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                        Salah Fadlabi Level 5

                        I was immediately struck by red strikethroughs and tags all over the page.

                        Sound like Show Local Formatting In Indesign script

                        See: Indiscripts :: Show Local Formatting in InDesign CS4/CS5

                        1 person found this helpful
                        • 10. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                          kzmiller Level 1

                          Fortunately there will be no epub generated from this document. And though I prefer that everyone learn to use the software that they're employing for stuff, it's a bit unrealistic to demand that people of certain generations or abilities learn programs like Word. If they're interested, absolutely, I'll get on the phone with them or Skype or a work station sharing program, and point them to tutorials. But there are loads of people with interesting things to say and an engaging writing style that simply won't learn it. I won't say can't, but will say won't. So they should never use Word? That would actually make my job harder, not easier. I don't work the epub side of things. I get a Word doc, and I do my best to make it pretty. This is definitely the most chaotic job I've ever done, though. If I get it so that it generates a print-worthy pdf, I'll be a happy camper.

                          • 11. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                            jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                            Frans van der Geest (ACP) wrote:

                             

                            Maybe Track Changes?

                            Not Track Changes—they only show up in the Story Editor.

                            • 12. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                              kzmiller Level 1

                              I think you're onto something with the Show Local Formatting article Indiscripts :: Show Local Formatting in InDesign CS4/CS5 . Those markings very much look like what I'm seeing. I'm a bit disheartened since in the article you pointed me to, the author couldn't find a way to access the feature. I've snooped around the more obscure text option, since the author said it was a text preference, but I haven't come up with anything yet. So, as far as the red markings, I'll leave them be and take advantage of the fact that I can now see what isn't styled. While I'm figuring out how to deal with the object drag issue, I can clean up this ms a bit. Thanks!

                              1 person found this helpful
                              • 13. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                Frans van der Geest (ACP) Adobe Community Professional

                                Ah yes, they are actualy on the page I see, sorry ;-)

                                • 14. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                  BobLevine MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                  jane-e wrote:

                                   

                                  Not Track Changes—they only show up in the Story Editor.

                                  Not necessarily.

                                   

                                  Track and manage text changes in InDesign and InCopy - CtrlSoftware

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 15. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                    jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                    kzmiller wrote:

                                     

                                    I strongly agree that everyone should learn styles, not just in InDesign but Word.

                                    ...it would be impossibly awkward for him to list all the italicized text he wants italicized and so forth only to have me then laboriously go through his list and put them in for him.

                                    ...I'm not convinced that manual overrides are what those marks are, but I'm willing to entertain the possibility

                                    On the idea of "we are too far into this project / too near the end / it will take too long / it's too (insert excuse) / to do it correctly":

                                    I have been in this business for 27 years and have heard every reason. And then when the deadline approaches and the last minute edits and changes pour in, it has always been a mistake for those who do not format with best practices. Always.

                                     

                                    On the local italics:

                                    Search for local italics. Replace with a character style called Italics. Save the Search and repeat when necessary. You might be able to do this for other formatting as well, such as small caps.

                                     

                                    On the local paragraph styles:

                                    Click in a paragraph or two to see what was done. Then update the style or clear the formatting if there is no reason for it.

                                     

                                    Fantasy formatting:

                                    Can you get away with Select All with the Type tool > Clear all local formats > and let him start the formatting fresh? There shouldn't be many styles. I know it's a fantasy...

                                     

                                    The marks

                                    As Salah said, the marks are from a script by Marc Autret to show overrides. Follow the link Salah provided. If you are not certain it is local formatting, clear the overrides in a paragraph and see if the marks go way when you do. (They will.)

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 16. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                      jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                      Thank you, Bob—it's hard to keep track of all the plug-ins that make InDesign function!

                                      • 17. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                        jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                        Derek Cross wrote:

                                        Regarding the frames, it might be worth checking to see if they are on a Master page and that's why you can't move them.

                                         

                                         

                                        I don't think the main frames are on a Master. The Header frames are dotted, but the main frames are solid.

                                        • 18. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                          kzmiller Level 1

                                          On the idea of "we are too far into this project / too near the end / it will take too long / it's too (insert excuse) / to do it correctly":

                                          I have been in this business for 27 years and have heard every reason. And then when the deadline approaches and the last minute edits and changes pour in, it has always been a mistake for those who do not format with best practices. Always.

                                           

                                          On the local italics:

                                          Search for local italics. Replace with a character style called Italics. Save the Search and repeat when necessary. You might be able to do this for other formatting as well, such as small caps.

                                           

                                          On the local paragraph styles:

                                          Click in a paragraph or two to see what was done. Then update the style or clear the formatting if there is no reason for it.

                                           

                                          Fantasy formatting:

                                          Can you get away with Select All with the Type tool > Clear all local formats > and let him start the formatting fresh? There shouldn't be many styles. I know it's a fantasy...

                                           

                                          The marks

                                          As Salah said, the marks are from a script by Marc Autret to show overrides. Follow the link Salah provided. If you are not certain it is local formatting, clear the overrides in a paragraph and see if the marks go way when you do. (They will.)

                                          You're right, of course. I think I'm just overwhelmed. I totally respect your experience, and I do try to follow best practices. This is the first time that working with InDesign has been this difficult. All the other jobs have been easy, and except for a corrupted font mangling one of my files, I haven't had any issues with InDesign. Although I certainly don't have 27 years experience (wow!) I do have a work flow and it's been massively interrupted. Maybe this won't take as long as I fear. I've run into things before that I thought would take forever, but turn out to not be that big of a deal.

                                           

                                          I'll go ahead and search for italics and see how it goes with replacing it with a character style instead. Most of the paragraphs are styled except for the things he tossed in before he sent the idml to me. Interestingly, with this tagging magically appearing out of nowhere, I've found spots where a random paragraph mark isn't formatted, but the rest of the paragraph is, so I can clean that up while I'm doing the rest.

                                           

                                          About the fantasy formatting: In my head, I spend about an hour showing him how to use paragraph and character styles, and ship it back to him. He happily does everything and sends it back to me. In real life, I'll never do it. He won't even respond to the email. He's quite the character and if he feels uncomfortable or thinks I might not like him anymore (oh no! feelings may be hurt!) he typically won't respond at all. Then, if I send him an email with a progress report, he'll say great, good work! At least he's a very kind person. When something seems too hard he won't do it. I think as a defense mechanism while working with him in particular I'm responding in the same way. I gotta get my best game on here instead of avoiding the problems.

                                           

                                          :UPDATE on IMMOVABLE FRAMES:

                                           

                                          My techie genius friend and I put our heads together and may have come up with a fix, but I'm not sure if it's going to stick.

                                          I did a safe startup and the problem went away. But of course with a safe startup I can't work, because all of the fonts that I paid top dollar for and use with pride because they're quality highly professional fonts can't be accessed. My friend was reading through various threads with the same frame issue I had and mentioned a Wacom tablet setting. I remembered that I had a problem with my Wacom Bamboo Create – the stylus didn't want to communicate with the tablet. I followed a protocol and the stylus began to work again, and I put it out of my mind.

                                           

                                          So we hatched a plan. I removed my Wacom driver using the Wacom tablet utility found in the System Preferences. (I have a Macbook Pro running 10.9.5, btw). I uploaded the newest driver for my tablet/pen, installed it, and restarted the machine, but this time I didn't start it in safe mode.

                                           

                                          The frame dragging issue has gone away. I'm not going to say that this is fixed because I haven't plugged in my tablet to change the setting that the thread mentioned had caused the issues. I'm going to finish this job first, and then I'll plug in the tablet, change the setting (there's a box for 'Windows ink, apparently, that needs to be unchecked), and see if the text frame problem stays solved or if it returns.

                                           

                                          Thank you everyone for your help so far!! I'll keep you posted.

                                          • 19. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                            jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                            So the biggest issue facing you—I finally get it—is that the customer is messing up the formatting and is uncooperative. Sigh. In that case I send sympathies! I'm sure he has many other endearing qualities, and as long as he either pays well or is a close relative, you will be able to put this behind you soon and the book will go to press.

                                             

                                            Best of luck KZ, and be sure to post back if you run into other issues!

                                            • 20. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                              kzmiller Level 1
                                              So the biggest issue facing you—I finally get it—is that the customer is messing up the formatting and is uncooperative.

                                              Heh. Actually the biggest issue was not being able to drag objects/frames around, but yes, things are massively complicated by working with someone who's main experience with word processing is typing into Pages. The documents I have have been exported from Pages. He used random (they seem randomly chosen to me anyway) fonts that he thought 'looked nice' (at least there was no comic sans! LOL), bolding and italicizing using the italics and bold buttons, etc. He assumed that I could index his book. That's when we started this whole process of getting him a month of InDesign, after I explained to him that either he or an editor that was intimately involved with development of the book (no editor, he had a proofreader though so bonus!) had to develop the index. I had to explain that I was not qualified to develop an index for him, and no, it's not good enough to have a list of words and just search for those words. A good index has a real human being check each instance to make sure that the correct instances are tagged. That was quite the conversation, I tell you! And then of course he noticed that some of his italics didn't come through, and some other formatting stuff. So he's 'fixing' those himself because I figure it's faster if he does it than if he sends me a list and I try to go item by item, as the list would have been several hundred items long.

                                               

                                              He is paying me but he has a budget in mind and I'm doing my best to stay within that budget. So far so good, but we're still negotiating on images. (He wants several turned sideways. I'm trying not to argue – it's his book and of course it's not unprecedented to have illustrations set sideways, but gah! I hate it when images are turned sideways. Hate hate hate.) 

                                               

                                              I'm sort of addicted to having the localized formatting marked up now. Now I want to figure out how to make it visible in all future manuscripts.

                                              • 21. Re: Indesign: Unusual markings, can't drag frames around
                                                Pickory Level 3

                                                Jane-e,

                                                 

                                                There are a few other plugins that track changes.

                                                 

                                                As mentioned.

                                                 

                                                Track and manage text changes in InDesign and InCopy - CtrlSoftware

                                                 

                                                EMS

                                                Home - Blacklining

                                                 

                                                and my company offer, EditMarks.

                                                 

                                                EditMarks - Kerntiff Publishing Systems

                                                 

                                                All the best.

                                                 

                                                P.