17 Replies Latest reply on Feb 5, 2017 6:12 AM by martink60937998

    DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue

    martink60937998

      Hello dear Lightroom-Community and dear Lightroom-Experts,

       

      having huge Issues with DNG-Files while using the Preset "Scenic Sharpen".
      I've imported some .DNG- files shot with a Sinar-Back. The capture Software i've used before importing the files to Lightroom
      was Sinars "CaptureFlow Studio 1.4.1"

       

      Importing these files into Lightroom, everything seems first OK ( picture 1 ) .Screen Shot 2016-08-15 at 15.36.34.png

       

       

       


      Using the preset "scenic sharpen" the Preset does what it should ( sharpening the image ) -
      but then while activating the preset, suddenly the Exposure of the image pops up dramatically ( image 2 ) Screen Shot 2016-08-15 at 15.36.44.png

       

      while the "Exposure-Trigger" itself ist stuck in its same position ( see image 3 ).
      Screen Shot 2016-08-15 at 15.43.30.png

       

       

      Pretty bad if you want to make quick changes to a bunch of images, as you can imagine.


      Could someone please tell me what parameters the "scenic-sharpen" preset is switching / changing or how to solve this problem in general ?

       

      Thanks for your support and tipps !


      Kind regards,
      Martin

        • 1. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Can you post the DNG you've imported into LR?  Upload to www.dropbox.com and post a public share link to it, here.

           

          My guess would be that there is fine grain noise and it is getting sharpened extra and this white grain make the exposure seem to increase but if you zoom in 1:1 then it's less noticeable.

           

          The Scenic Sharpen preset should only be affecting the Detail parameters.  You can easily check all the other sections to make sure nothing else has changed.

           

          You can also reset the photo, then manually adjust the Detail parameters to what the Scenic Sharpen Detail section has, and see if the brightening occurs.  If so then it is indeed those parameters that cause the brightening, for a reason yet to be determined, and hard to guess without seeing the original file you're working with.

          • 2. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
            martink60937998 Level 1

            hello ssprengel ,

             

             

             

            thanks for your help and suggestions. i've tried them
            1) zooming in , nothing actually changes. so it's not a display-failure.

             


            2) it's a bit strange. when using the scenic-sharpen preset the window with my parameters changes a bit. see here.
                 before preset :
            Screen Shot 2016-08-16 at 10.00.56.png

             

            window after preset :
            Screen Shot 2016-08-16 at 10.01.05.png

             

            3) also tried to manually change the parameters as you described and the scenic-sharpen does.
            but the brightening does not appear then.

             

             

             

            is it possible that this issue is related to the .DNG-file itself like a BUG  ? maybe something in the original data or meta-data of the file  does not apply and work with Lightroom .

             

            https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/397fef05f7b5d9901b221405932e680320160816075212/da3245 d6cfaaf9b3b32074436961673420160816075212/7dccde

             

             

            Thanks for your help !

             

            Martin

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             

             


            • 3. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
              Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

              The lightning bolt below the Histogram in the first screenshot indicates that the image was originally imported to Lightroom using an older process version (possibly version 2010, which would mean LR3 or older I think)

               

              In the second screenshot the lightning bolt is gone, which means that the image has been updated to the current Process Version, which is 2012. To update the process version, you click the lightning bolt, and confirm by clicking Update in the dialog that appears.

              I strongly suspect that this is what you did - updating the process version can cause small changes in color, which will also change the histogram. Applying a sharpening preset cannot cause this change.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                You can also change the process version in the Camera calibration panel in Develop.

                Using the latest process version (2012) is recommended, because it does a better raw conversion than older versions.

                The sliders in the Basic panel are also different with process version 2012.

                • 5. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                  martink60937998 Level 1

                  @ Per Berntsen:

                   

                  thank you so much for this that explains it.
                  in the process version 2012, the filter does what it finally should. without impairing the brightness / exposure of my image at all.

                   

                  still confusing for me . why is it called "process version 2012" ? is this the last update they made on LR ?
                  its 2016 and since LR CC i guess they made some updates until now . or a am i wrong with this thought ?

                  • 6. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                    Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                    Process versions are more about the underlying technology of Lightroom than regular program updates, and PV 2012 is the current version. Lightroom 1 and 2 used PV 2003, Lightroom 3 used PV 2010, and Lightroom 4 and later use PV 2012.

                    You can read more about process versions here: Develop module options in Photoshop Lightroom

                    • 7. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                      martink60937998 Level 1

                      @ Per Berntsen


                      ok, i understand. very helpful to know this and pretty good that LR keeps them elderly process versions still in the app. so that its free to choose.thank you guys for the help !





                      • 8. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        martink60937998 wrote:


                        ok, i understand. very helpful to know this and pretty good that LR keeps them elderly process versions still in the app. so that its free to choose.

                        The primary reason the older 2003 and 2010 Process Versions have been kept is to preserve edits made to image files in older versions of LR. When editing (or re-editing) older image files imported using LR 1, 2, and 3 it is recommended that you update them to PV2012 Process Version. It provides superior results concerning control of highlight and shadow detail, sharpening, and noise reduction. If you're happy with edits made using the previous 2003 or 2010 Process Versions there's really no need to update them. Image files with bright highlights and/or dark shadow areas are good candidates for re-editing using PV2012.

                         

                        Here's a short tutorial on the PV2012 Basic panel Tone control adjustment: Re: camera calibration profiles: standard vs neutral

                        • 9. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          The Preset probably just has the PV stored in it, so the user didn’t have to click any lightning bolt, applying the preset updated the PV automatically.

                          • 10. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                            Per Berntsen Adobe Community Professional

                            Good point. I didn't realize that PV version was part of a preset, but that explains what happened.

                            • 11. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                              martink60937998 Level 1

                              hello again @ all.


                              now some other issues appeared.

                               

                              using scenic-sharpen preset -> it sharpens , brightness /exposure are kept as they should but now the colors in the image change.

                               

                              maybe good to know that the file itself was shot in "Sinar CaptureFlow", has gone trough a color-calibration with the Softwares bulld-in Xrite-Colorchecker / colormanagement-tool and then was imported to Lightroom as last step.

                              • 12. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                You should create your own Preset that includes the Detail - Sharpen settings and that's all.  So it won't switch anything else.

                                • 13. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                  martink60937998 Level 1

                                  hey

                                   

                                  yes ... seems to be the best solution.
                                  btw . is there an adobe phone support available for lightroom ? i am from germany .

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  martin

                                  • 14. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Support for LR from Adobe is for install, licensing, update issues, not troubleshooting something about how it works.  That's what the forums are for. 

                                    • 15. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                      ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      And normally when you switch PV from 2010 to 2013 a relatively equivalent set of slider values is computed and set so the image only changes slightly, so why does the Exposure jump in this case when using a preset. 

                                       

                                      Well, if you switch from PV 2010 to PV 2013 by itself, an Exposure value of -1 EV is set for PV 2013 as the equivalent to the Exposure of 0 for 2010.  However, when a PV specification is used in a preset, no automatic adjustment of the toning sliders is performed so the PV 2013 Exposure value is still 0 and as such is about 1 stop brighter than the PV 2010 Exposure 0 look. 

                                      • 16. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Process Version 2012 uses "image adaptive" controls that work quite differently than 2010 and 2003 Process versions.

                                         

                                        Getting used to the PV2012 Develop Sliders? | The Lightroom Queen

                                         

                                        Because of this when editing or re-editing image files that were imported into older LR versions 1, 2, or 3 with PV 2003 or 2010 you should RESET all of the Basic panel Tone controls to their "default" settings. Double-clicking on the word 'Tone' in Basic panel will reset those controls. If the image also has Local controls applied (Adjustment Brush or Graduated Filter) it's best to RESET ALL Develop controls to their default settings. You can do this by clicking on the master 'Reset' button at the bottom of the Develop panel. You should then follow the instructions as outlined at the tutorial I created here for adjusting the PV2012 Tone controls:
                                        Re: camera calibration profiles: standard vs neutral

                                         

                                        Switching form PV 2003 or 2010 to PV 2012 should not cause color shifts in the image file when this procedure is followed. If you are still seeing these color shifts I suggest posting a DNG file to Dropbox or other file sharing site for us to evaluate. It can be ANY subject that exhibits the color shift issue such as a Color Checker chart. This is the best way to determine if some other issue is causing the problem you are seeing. Thank you.

                                        • 17. Re: DNGs with Scenic-Sharpen Issue
                                          martink60937998 Level 1

                                          hello !

                                           

                                          i have the same issue with DNG-Files.

                                           

                                          Can someone help ?
                                          Why does Adobe do not offer an official Support for sucht questions ?

                                           

                                          With kind regards
                                          Martin