10 Replies Latest reply on May 1, 2006 10:52 AM by MergeThis

    Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior

    tojo45 Level 1
      We are having a problem where a bulleted block of text is being treated as one item even though there are three bullets. If we move one bullet the entire list moves. Cannot indent to a second level bullet. To get out of this we have to basically start the list over. Seems to be intermittent so I would think it's a setting or something we are doing unintentionally. Any suggestions, tips would be greatly appreciated.


        • 1. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
          Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional
          Can you post the html? Change the text in it if confidential.

          • 2. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
            MergeThis Level 4
            Do you have any soft returns in there (Shift+Enter on keyboard, BR tag in Html)?

            It's either that, or the way the list was created has made a mess: check the TrueCode, and you'll probably see that each item has both an opening and closing OL or UL, instead of a true nesting structure (and check for additional BR and SPAN filth while you're in there.

            Good luck,
            • 3. Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
              tojo45 Level 1
              Below is the true code of the original problem. I just edited this message to add that I didn't see the Attach code button. Hopefully this isn't a problem. Please advise if it is.

              This is an early stage of the project and we are using the time to learn RoboHelp. This is from one of our newer writers, but none of us have been able to figure what is going on with this.

              The bulleted line that starts with "Choose where to add" moves in bulk with the four line of text under it even though there is a blank line before the first three and a line after that, before the last line in that step.

              If you try to insert a bullet it goes to that first line, no matter which of the four other lines you place the cursor in front of. If you use the "shift left/right" arrows the entire set of lines moves together. Looking at the code it seems as though something is fishy as Leon mentions.

              As with other times I've tried to figure out problems, the Kadov tags seem to throw me. Is that the name of the founder of RoboHelp? It's everywhere. Anyway, thanks so much for the info and suggestions. HOpefully you will see something here that we aren't. I'm sad to say that I'm anxious to get back to work Monday to try and beat this thing.

              <h1>Edit a MARC record</h1>

              <p>When you want to make changes to a MARC record originating from an external
              source, the editing features in BibiloFile let you move or copy information
              from one record to another.</p>

              <h3>Adding and Deleting Fields, Characters and Words</h3>

              <h3><span style="margin-top: 0pt; font-weight: bold;">To insert a new field:</span></h3>

              <ol style="list-style: decimal;"

              <li class=kadov-p><p>Use Components | File Editor to open a file, and
              select a record.</p></li>

              <ul style="list-style: circle;"

              <li class=kadov-p><p>Choose where to add the new field.<br>
              To add a new field <span style="x-text-underline: normal; /*begin!kadov{{*/ text-decoration: underline; /*}}end!kadov*/ ">after</span>
              a selected field, place the cursor anywhere to the right of the tag in
              that field, and press <span style="font-weight: bold;">Enter</span>.<br>
              To add a new field <span style="x-text-underline: normal; /*begin!kadov{{*/ text-decoration: underline; /*}}end!kadov*/ ">before</span>
              a selected field, place the cursor to the far left of the tag and press
              You can also press the key combination, <span style="font-weight: bold;">Control
              + N,</span> or click New Field from the MARC Editor menu.<br>
              The empty field will initially display with MARC Leader in the
              Field Description column.<br> </p></li>

              <li class=kadov-p><p>Type the tag (field number) over the 000 followed
              by the appropriate indicator values, if any. <!--kadov_tag{{<spaces>}}--> <!--kadov_tag{{</spaces>}}-->Move
              the cursor to the right of the indicators and click Tab. <!--kadov_tag{{<spaces>}}--> <!--kadov_tag{{</spaces>}}-->The
              first delimiter with subfield a is placed in position. <!--kadov_tag{{<spaces>}}--> <!--kadov_tag{{</spaces>}}-->If
              any additional delimiters are needed, press <span style="font-weight: bold;">F12</span>.<br> </p></li>

              <p style="font-weight: bold;">To delete a field:</p>

              <ol style="list-style: decimal;"

              <li class=kadov-p><p>Place the cursor in the field tag.</p></li>

              <li class=kadov-p><p>Click Delete Field from the MARC Editor menu.
              • 4. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional
                The text is behaving entirely correctly based on the html you have created. As Leon identified it is the use of the <br> that is giving the result you describe and do not want.

                Effectively what a <br> tag says to any html display is start the next line of text in line with this line, do not display the numbering or bullets that you otherwise would if the Enter key had been pressed instead of Shift + Enter and retain the same font etc.

                Here's what you need to do to get the result I think you want.

                At the end of the first sentence which ends "select a record", you have used a hard paragraph break (pressed Enter). That is correct.

                At the end of the second sentence with the open bullet, you have entered a soft break (pressed Shift + Enter). Wrong. Press Enter instead. Initially a bullet point will also display.

                Click the bullet icon and the bullet will go and all the block will move extreme left. Point 2 will become point 1, we will fix that later.

                Press Enter again to get you blank line back.

                Put the cursor in front of To Add a new field and press backspace followed by Enter. The text will look the same but instead of a <br> tag at the end of the first sentence, you will have a </p> tag.

                Repeat that for each line before what was point 2.

                You will now find that each line is quite independant of the next. Use the text align icon in any line to prove it.

                Finally put the cursor in the second numbered point and right click. Select Bullets and Numbering and note the Restart Numbering field. Set that to 2 and you are away.

                Post back if that is not what you want. The text is, as I said, working correctly based on the html rules.

                Another way of achieving what you want is to create a table where you use the first column just to manually enter the numbers. The second column then contains the text but it will be a bit easier to manipulate. Try it and see which method you prefer.

                • 5. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                  tojo45 Level 1
                  Peter, I had been able to correct the bulleted text pretty much the way you suggest. I have some HTML knowledge, but not extensive. This is pretty simple but I guess my bottom line question is: Can you say what actual WYSIWYG keystrokes/commands created the situation? I'm going to take a look at the code further MOnday at work and try to recreate it just so I can tell the rest of the group how to avoid a similar situation. If you can say what caused it, I'll be more easily able to recreate it to demonstrate to them.

                  Thanks again for all your help. It is a real relief to know there is someone watching over the forum who can speak to these type of questions. My experience with Customer Support has been a little frustrating. I Know the corporate stuff going on with Adobe etc, probably doesn't help provide the best support. The words provided have always been well intended, but not to the point.

                  • 6. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                    Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional
                    Only two ways I know to get the BR tag in. One is to type it in via the true code editor. The other is to use Shift + Enter.

                    • 7. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                      tojo45 Level 1
                      Peter, After testing I see what you mean. Which brings up the next question on this bullet seminar ;-)

                      This occured because the writer wanted to change to a second level bullet (indented further and a different bullet style) and she used SHIFT + ENTER to do that.

                      I kind of doubt it, but do you know if there is a way in RoboHelp HTML to automatically change the bullet to another style when you indent, as Word does? So I guess it is still truly WYSIWYG, not " what you want is what you get" ;-)

                      I'm marking this as being answered, but if you have any info about that question please advise. Again, thanks so much.

                      • 8. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                        Peter Grainge Adobe Community Professional
                        Sorry but that is not the way it works in this editor.

                        Shift + Enter works as per my second post.

                        After the numbered paragraph you need to hit Enter. Then you can select the bullet icon and use that. You use the indent icon to indent further but that does not auto change the bullet. You have to right click for that.

                        What you want works in Dreamweaver but not RH. Sorry but that's the way it is.

                        • 9. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                          tojo45 Level 1
                          Thanks for the quick reply. I figured that would be the case, but wanted to ask. Thanks again. I'm done on this issue.
                          • 10. Re: Erratic Bullet / Number list behavior
                            MergeThis Level 4
                            In your style sheet, do this:

                            ol { list-style-type: square; }
                            ol ol { list-style-type: circle; }
                            ol ol ol { list-style-type: disc; }

                            Naturally, you can also use this method for your UL styles. I haven't tried it, but you could probably even do combinations of the two (OL UL OL, for example).

                            Good luck,