16 Replies Latest reply on Aug 18, 2016 9:58 AM by rob day

    InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile

    markc0 Level 1

      Hello

       

      I have a indesign cc 2015 layout and i have an icc applied to the working space of the color settings.

      Now with this layout there is in places a quite high TAC (+300) for cmyk.

      The icc used for the working space is 300% when i go to export as a pdf using the settings Output-Destination(use my icc), does this export then make the PDF where the ink TAC is higger than 300% to lower than 300%?

       

      Im not seeing that this is the case, the PDF shows the TAC as the same as what indesign -seperations preview shows it at which is 300 to 320 in places

       

      Thanks

        • 1. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          It is always possible to create colors natively that exceed the ink limit of the working space. In order to reduce these colors it is necessary to export to a DIFFERENT profile to force a conversion.

          • 2. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
            markc0 Level 1

            HI

             

            Im not understanding correctly, If the current working space is an icc at 300%.

            The layout with linked images some of which have a cmyk tac of 308%, when i export to PDF these linked images with +300% TAC are not being reduced the 300%.

            Are you saying i need to select a different profile with a lower TAC in order to get them to be below 300%?

            the icc im using is iso coated v2 300%

             

            Thanks

            • 3. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              It is also better to use RGB images and if you need to have cmyk to convert on PDF export, not before. So you could use keep numbers policy for cmyk. If you have cmyk and need to convert to a differtent cmyk you have not to keep numbers, but this could cause coloured black on many cases you are not aware of. That is why I recommend to use rgb images.

              • 4. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                OK, let's see if I can do a better explanation.

                 

                Your ink limit is not enforced inside the document when it is created, so you can create a color, or import an image that exceeds the limit. The ink limit is enforced on export, but only if there is a color conversion involved, so it would not be applied in a case where you output to the same profile as the working space. In order to get a color conversion, and enforcement of an ink limit, you would need to export to a profile different from the working space.

                 

                In cases like this I usually edit the photos in Photoshop by adding a curves adjustment layer masked to the overlimit shadow areas and reduce the black level to bring it into spec.

                • 5. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                  markc0 Level 1

                  Thanks Peter

                   

                  I have changed indesign color settings to monitor color, this uses a different settings for RGB and CMYK.

                  I have then exported the PDF with the output settings to convert to destination (preserve). Where the destination is set to ISO coated v2 300%.

                  I then open this PDF in Acrobat and look at Outlook Preview - TAC and there is loads of areas still above 300%.

                  So i can not see that the export to PDF is actually reducting the TAC to 300%

                  • 6. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                    Did you reassign the document working space (Edit > Assign Profile...) or change the default color settings (Edit > Color Settings...)? Sounds like the latter, and working in monitor profile is probably less than optimal.

                    • 7. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                      markc0 Level 1

                      You are correct i had just set the color settings, but i have now assigned profile.

                      Again when i now export and open the PDF in Acrobat im still seeing the CMYK TAC still above 300%.

                       

                      You mentioned monitor profile is probably less than optimal do reccomend then a profile to work in ?

                      • 8. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Does your page contain transparency? You have to be careful using blend modes like Multiply over CMYK images. If you place an image converted to the correct CMYK profile, and multiply a dark color over that image it could exceed the TAC.

                         

                        You mentioned monitor profile is probably less than optimal do reccomend then a profile to work in ?

                        The standard practice is to pick an RGB space for editing and use it with all of your applications and make sure the profile is always included. Usually AdobeRGB or sRGB. AdobeRGB has a somewhat larger color gamut

                        • 10. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                          markc0 Level 1

                          Thanks but im unable to see any transparencies use don the layout.

                          Also im not the designer im just trying to help him out as he needs to send a pdf off with the TAC below 300% of all areas

                          • 11. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Now with this layout there is in places a quite high TAC (+300) for cmyk.

                            Is the TAC problem limited to placed images or is it also InDesign color? If it is only in placed images do the images have an embedded profile when you open them in Photoshop?

                            • 12. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                              markc0 Level 1

                              Well Both, the first layout has linked images with a high TAC on them.

                              So i created another layout drew a box and filled with color, i then exported this as a PDF with the OUtput settings convert to destination (preserve) and the destination using the ISO coated v2 300%.

                              I then opened in Acrobat and using the output preview - TAC i can see what i was seeing in the indesign layout, the same areas are over the 300%. So i can not see that this convert to destination profile in the PDF settings is reducing the ink denisty for the PDF.

                              • 13. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                markc0 wrote:

                                 

                                exported this as a PDF with the OUtput settings convert to destination (preserve) and the destination using the ISO coated v2 300%.

                                You told the program to preserve numbers. If they start out too high they will remain too high. You cannot both preserve numbers and change them for the TAC.

                                • 14. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                                  markc0 Level 1

                                  Hi

                                  Thanks Peter, i was on the understanding you would use Preserve as if there is cmyk images then to leave them do not convert them.

                                  However now ive done this the output is much better.

                                  There is still some TAC at above 300% but no where near as much.

                                  Ive have a play some more with the settings to see if can get any better

                                  • 15. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                                    Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                    What hasn't been mentioned is that there is a real danger here of converting your 100% K type to a rich black (4-color) when you move from one CMYK space to another.

                                     

                                    You really should be preparing the images correctly, or leaving them in RGB with embedded profiles, and working with the output space as the working CMYK in the document. CMYK images with the wrong profile, with embedded profiles, and conversion to the document CMYK, if it's the correct space, without preserve numbers when exporting should also force those images to the lower limit without changing anything already in the correct space.

                                     

                                    It really is important, though, that any content created or assumed to be in the correct profile really does already respect your limits. If not, fix it before export.

                                    1 person found this helpful
                                    • 16. Re: InDesign Export PDF with ICC profile
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      So i created another layout drew a box and filled with color, i then exported this as a PDF with the OUtput settings convert to destination (preserve) and the destination using the ISO coated v2 300%.

                                       

                                      The document CMYK profile's total ink limit doesn't stop you from creating a CMYK color or swatch that exceeds the limit. The export dialog's Convert to Destination (Preserve Numbers) will convert all placed objects with profiles that conflict with the chosen destination CMYK profile. Preserve Numbers only applies to native InDesign CMYK color. If there's no conflict CMYK objects export unchanged.

                                       

                                      Also you have to be careful when reading numbers in AcrobatPro. If the Output Preview's Simulation Profile is different than the document's profile you will see the wrong numbers. When you export start by loading the PDF/X-4 preset before you choose the color destination—in that case the simulation profile will default to the CMYK profile you export to.

                                      1 person found this helpful