29 Replies Latest reply on Aug 23, 2016 9:50 AM by sarahkochan

    Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?

    sarahkochan

      I recently upgraded to an iMac 5K and am having trouble exporting photos to any web hosts. Dropbox, flickr, tumblr, etc. I shoot in RAW, import my files to CC, and then edit. When exporting the photos to a hard drive, I've tried all color profiles, set the quality to 100, set the resolution to 300, and I'm still seeing color banding and a drop in quality. My images retain their quality when I preview them my iMac but anywhere else, they're much lower quality. I've searched as many threads and forums as I could find and I've contacted customer support and I'm not getting anywhere. Any advice?

        • 1. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
          dj_paige Level 9

          Show us an example. Show how it looks in Lightroom. Show how it looks outside of Lightroom. Show us (or tell us) all of your export dialog settings.

          • 2. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
            sarahkochan Level 1

            These are the export settings:

            Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 9.44.11 AM.png

            For the photo here:

            Dropbox - DrakeFuture-1.jpg

             

            This is a screenshot of how it looks in Lightroom, cropped to the problem area:

            Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 9.51.01 AM.png

             

            • 3. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
              Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I opened your image in Photoshop and checked the histogram and It appears this image is blowing out of sRGB in the blue bands. The red channel is zero almost in the entire blueish area. That's likely what is causing the banding. At quality > 90 or so you should not visually get any posterization due to the jpeg compression. 100 is almost always overkill. You want to check for this in Lightroom by turning on soft proofing and proof for sRGB. Turn on the out of gamut warning and my guess is that you'll see the blue blown out. You are editing on a wide gamut monitor (the iMac 5K is DCI (3P), which is wider than sRGB), so it is likely you can't see the banding on your own screen when editing as your monitor can display the deep blue.

              • 4. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                sarahkochan Level 1

                I turned on soft proofing and didn't see anything change. All of the photos I edited have banding in one way or another, how can I accurately edit to my liking if its a matter of color adjustments?

                • 5. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                  Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  You soft proofed to sRGB? This should make the image appear identical to the jpeg export. I am not sure what banding you are referring to by the way. I see a blue/teal band of light above and below the spot lights but that appears to be because of the lighting itself. How are you calibrating your monitor?

                  • 6. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                    sarahkochan Level 1

                    This is the banding I'm referring to:

                    Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 10.23.51 AM.png

                    These are my settings:

                    Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 10.24.55 AM.png

                    This is what I see with the gamut warning toggled:

                    Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 10.25.54 AM.png

                    But my issue isn't near any of the areas in red on this specific photo, its the diagonal beam across the photo

                    • 7. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                      Bob Somrak Level 5

                      Maybe I am not looking in the right place but like Jao vdL I can not see banding either.

                      • 8. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                        sarahkochan Level 1

                        If you click to enlarge, you should be able to see the banding and pixelation?

                         

                        Here is another example, exported at the same settings:

                        Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 10.35.22 AM.png

                        vs

                        Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 10.35.13 AM.png

                        I see issues in the space behind him, all around and above the laptop, and in the light beam shining diagonally onto him. I just got the computer a few days ago and haven't made any adjustments to the monitor or calibrated it.

                        • 9. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                          Abambo Level 4

                          FYI: the 300dpi resolution setting is for information only. It has no influence on the picture quality as exported by LR. You may even put 1dpi in, and the picture would show no difference from a 2000 setting. 

                          • 10. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                            sarahkochan Level 1

                            I changed the resolution as told by a customer care rep for Adobe, I've been trying any and every option at this point.

                            • 11. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              You have a large amount of Tone Curve, HSL, Local Adjustments, and Spot Removal edits applied to this image. In short these adjustments may be the cause of what you're seeing.I suggest uploading the original raw file to Dropbox so we can see how it behaves on our systems. Thank you.

                              • 12. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                sarahkochan Level 1

                                Here is a link to the raw pink photo: Dropbox - DSC03778.ARW

                                After applying a preset, these were my preferred adjustments:

                                Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 11.13.44 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-22 at 11.13.54 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-22 at 11.14.03 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-22 at 11.14.12 AM.png

                                • 13. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  This is a different image file from the one originally posted, but the issue is probably the same for both as discussed here:

                                   

                                  raw development versus camera JPG

                                   

                                  And here is Adobe Engineering's response:

                                   

                                  Re: raw development versus camera JPG

                                  • 14. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                    Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Hmm, I still don't see it. Not even in the screenshots nor in the raw file. I just see some noise. I also see some beaming from the spot lighting and the smoke on the podium. It is possible that you see more due to the monitor not being calibrated. In the raw file I can see lots of stuff out of sRGB with default settings (basically the entire image). With your settings it becomes less but still a lot out of sRGB.  I do see some what looks like pattern noise already in the original. Is that what you are referring to? When I export and reimport a sRGB jpeg, they look more or less identical on my nose to sRGB screen.

                                    • 15. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                      sarahkochan Level 1

                                      Unfortunately I'm not sure how else to explain what I'm seeing. I sent a friend a link to my photos in dropbox and he also saw what I was seeing on his 2011 Macbook Pro. I'm not sure how I would calibrate my monitor to effectively address this problem if everyone is seeing something different? And I'm not sure how to go about editing if all of my adjustments seem to be causing noise/pixelation/banding issues.

                                      • 16. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                        Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        We're probably seeing the same thing but our language to refer to things is

                                        different. I see pattern-like noise and I see some bands that look natural

                                        to me considering the lighting.

                                         

                                         

                                        On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:09 AM, sarahkochan <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

                                        • 17. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          sarahkochan wrote:

                                           

                                          Unfortunately I'm not sure how else to explain what I'm seeing. I sent a friend a link to my photos in dropbox and he also saw what I was seeing on his 2011 Macbook Pro. I'm not sure how I would calibrate my monitor to effectively address this problem if everyone is seeing something different? And I'm not sure how to go about editing if all of my adjustments seem to be causing noise/pixelation/banding issues.

                                          I can see the banding and artifacts you mention, but only after increasing the Exposure setting to +2.0. My guess is that you have the Brightness set too high on your on your new iMac 5K display. There is a known issue with this type of lighting (Ultraviolet), which is explained in the links I provided in reply #13. With a higher display brightness the artifacts in the exported JPEG will look much more severe.

                                           

                                          Best way to determine what your LR settings are doing is to Export the ARW image file with your LR settings to DNG file format and post it to Dropbox. The DNG file will have your settings embedded so we can see them on our systems.

                                           

                                          Screen+Shot+2016-08-22_Comparison.jpg

                                          • 18. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                            sarahkochan Level 1

                                            I have my brightness turned all the way up, as I usually do when I'm editing. I have uploaded two photos as DNG images and included the LR settings:  Dropbox - DrakeFutureLR-1.dng / Dropbox - DrakeFutureLR-2.dng

                                            • 19. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              sarahkochan wrote:

                                               

                                              I have my brightness turned all the way up, as I usually do when I'm editing. 

                                              This is definitely part of the problem. The iMac 5K display maximum brightness is >400 cd/m2. The recommended setting for editing is 100 to 120 cd/m2, which means your display is a full 2.0 EV (2 F Stops) brighter than recommended.

                                               

                                              DrakeFutureLR-1 DNG

                                              You are using a Tone Curve (preset?) that applies both Region and Point Curve settings. The RGB Point Curves are adjusted off the 0 Shadow and 100 Highlight areas, which means the image dynamic range has been limited by these settings. You can see this in the Histogram, where it never reaches full Blacks (0%) or full Whites (100%). The RGB curves are virtually identical, so you could have used the single RGB curve luminosity curve. I've verified that the Tone Curve settings are in fact what's causing the Blue banding, so obviously that's not good! The numerous HSL settings have almost no effect on the image. They are not needed.

                                               

                                              Here's the DNG with Point Curve Red, Green, and Blue channels reset to Linear and Basic Tone controls adjusted as below. The Region Curve was left with your settings. Obviously on your brighter display it's going to look different than on mine.

                                              DrakeFutureLR-1_Point Curve Reset.jpg

                                              2 people found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                DrakeFutureLR-2 DNG

                                                I'm not seeing any banding or artifacts when exporting this DNG file with your settings to JPEG sRGB 85 Quality and no resizing:

                                                 

                                                DrakeFutureLR-2_LR Export.jpg

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                  ViatheLens Level 1

                                                  Is this what you mean?  I imported this into LR from Dropbox.  This looks to me like you have a camera problem, not a LR problem.  Have you done something to the sensor, cleaned it perhaps?  I did not touch this photo other than to enlarge it and grab a screen shot.  This is not an LR problem.

                                                  Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 4.31.44 PM.png

                                                  • 22. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                    Bob Somrak Level 5

                                                    It just looks like strings going up to the higher balloons in front of these lower balloons.

                                                    • 23. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                      sarahkochan Level 1

                                                      Those were actual strings holding up the balloons.My sensor hasn't been touched, the camera is a few months old and in good condition. I'm referring specifically to the the noise/banding in areas with gradients.

                                                      • 24. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                        ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Are you talking about the random blockiness that I've accentuated in the manipulated version of the photo just above:

                                                        • 25. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                          sarahkochan Level 1

                                                          Yes, exactly that. I'm not sure how else to refer to it other than artifacts/banding. I know with shooting live shows, I'm working with higher ISOs making images more grainy so my issue isn't with the noise. Its with how choppy everything seems to look after exporting.

                                                          • 26. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                            Jao vdL Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            OK, that is what I was referring to as pattern noise. It's simple sensor noise that gets amplified by processing. I think what you are seeing here is exactly what trshaner explained above. You are doing a set of rather extreme and opposite edits with the R,g,b point curves bringing up the shadows even with a non-black offset and then the parametric curves bringing it back down or up even more. You are probably running into the limit of the underlying math in 16 bits and the conversion to 8-bits sRGB where you get a bit step in the underlying data that happens to end up in a critical location close to the edge of the gamut and where consecutive oppositely focused steps make the curve steep than shallow and steep again and you can get artifacts like this. I would guess you need to look at the editing a bit more careful. Many of these edits as trshaner shows can be simplified in a single setting instead of a lot of different ones.

                                                            • 27. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              sarahkochan wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Yes, exactly that. I'm not sure how else to refer to it other than artifacts/banding. I know with shooting live shows, I'm working with higher ISOs making images more grainy so my issue isn't with the noise. Its with how choppy everything seems to look after exporting.

                                                              The raw image file (DSC03778.ARW) is underexposed by ~2.0 EV (2 Fstops) and is lit with ultraviolet lighting. This coupled with the Tone Curve and HSL settings is causing the artifacts you describe. It's a combination of image noise and gamut clipping when exporting to the smaller gamut sRGB profile JPEG. JPEGs are also only 8 bit/color, which is causing posterization (blocky look).

                                                               

                                                              Don't use that Develop preset....it's really bad! There are other adjustments you can make to help "fix" these issues.

                                                               

                                                              Ultraviolet Lighting Gamut Clipping

                                                              Change the Camera Profile to Camera Clear and lower the Saturation of the Red, Green, and Blue Primaries to -35 as shown below: This is Adobe Engineer Eric Chan's suggestion and it works. You can also try the raw editing software application that came with your Sony camera. It uses their proprietary camera profiles, which may provide better results with ultraviolet lighting. You could also shoot in-camera JPEGs or raw+JPEG, which uses the same camera profiles in-camera to process the JPEG image.

                                                               

                                                              Image Noise Due to Underexposure

                                                              Apply appropriate Sharpening and Noise Reduction as shown below.

                                                               

                                                              Basic Tone Control Settings

                                                              Use the PV2012 Tone controls to establish the overall image brightness and contrast. The below settiings work well.

                                                               

                                                              With the above settings the full-size JPEG export with 85 Quality and sRGB color profile looks identical to the raw image file inside LR. There is a slight hue shift in some areas due to the smaller sRGB gamut, but no artifacts.

                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                              • 28. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                                ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                The square blockiness is JPG compression artifacts in the areas where one channel or more is almost black and so you see a stairstep of brightness (posterization) between each level in the 255 total levels per channel.  I mean the pixel numbers in at least one channel are literally 0, 1, 2, etc. 

                                                                 

                                                                Adding noise, in the Effects panel, might help a little.  LR uses an 16-bit colorspace internally.

                                                                • 29. Re: Colorbanding/quality issue when exporting from CC?
                                                                  sarahkochan Level 1

                                                                  The specific preset I was using on the photo originally posted was part of a set that a photographer made to mimic VSCO's film presets, but I'll take a closer look at the adjustments you posted to avoid these issues. Thank you!