30 Replies Latest reply on Nov 21, 2016 10:00 AM by davisf79702125

    LR, PC, MAC and... speed

    dc99366833 Level 1

      Hello everybody,

       

      I think this is a topic for specialists.

       

      I use LR for several years and I was really happy with it till... LR6 (CC). I try to import only best pictures on it, to keep a light library (something like 5000 pics), I use 1:1 previews, use correct cache memory etc...

       

      It gets really slow.

       

      I wasted a LOT of time with Adobe, Apple and my computer scientist to try to solve that it is still too slow to be used.

       

      After many tries to solve it on my computer, Adobe finally established that it is a computer problem, mainly because of the weakness of the GPU (64 MB).

       

      OK, let it be! after trying many other solutions, I finally decided to invest in a new computer. I called Adobe to know what to put "inside" and follow their advices :

       

      I bought a brand new IMAC, core i5, 3,3 ghz (boost 4,00 ghz), 8 GB RAM, 4 GB GPU, fusion drive (SSD + HDD), screen 5k.  $$$$ but wonderfull, working very well with other programs and sure it will run MUCH faster with LR!

      My previous computer was a 4 years old PC laptop, core i5, 2,6 ghz, 8 GB RAM, 64 Mb GPU, no SSD, external HDD, external HD screen.

      Both are running in 64 bits.

       

      LR launch quickly, great, I open some pictures and.... it is slowwww, so slowww, exactly 3 times slower than on the PC

      Which means that it is completely unusable (eg : 45 sec to change the T° from 7400 to 7300 K on a picture which have only 4 local brushes, 2 "oval" filters, 2 graduated filters,  no local corrections, no lens corrections). I can't believe that the program is such limited, no professional photographer has any chance to work on it! Anyway, it is nothing logical (to me... ) that the new iMac is slower.

       

      So here are my questions :

       

      - How can it be that a new Mac with good devices inside (with runs very well with other programs) is slower than an old PC laptop with weaker devices??

      - The process is still slower with the GPU enabled, so why Adobe advised to invest in a good GPU which is supposed to improve speed?

      - And finally, if there is REALLY no other solution (what I can't resign myself to...), which way can I get the same processing on PS (without camera raw of course) and keeping the same possibility for afterwards modifications than LR?

       

      Hope everybody understood my poor english and thanks in advance for your help.

        • 1. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
          dj_paige Level 9

          It gets really slow.

          We need to know exactly what actions in Lightroom are slow. It's impossible to give advice without this information.

           

          I bought a brand new IMAC, core i5, 3,3 ghz (boost 4,00 ghz), 8 GB RAM, 4 GB GPU, fusion drive (SSD + HDD), screen 5k.  $$$$ but wonderfull, working very well with other programs and sure it will run MUCH faster with LR!

          My previous computer was a 4 years old PC laptop, core i5, 2,6 ghz, 8 GB RAM, 64 Mb GPU, no SSD, external HDD, external HD screen.

          Both are running in 64 bits.

          If speed is a concern, I would certainly go for an i7 and not an i5. If you have a 5k screen, you'd better have a top of the line graphics card — you don't say what GPU you purchased. The memory in the GPU is important, but so is the model.

           

          LR launch quickly, great, I open some pictures and.... it is slowwww, so slowww, exactly 3 times slower than on the PC

          Which means that it is completely unusable (eg : 45 sec to change the T° from 7400 to 7300 K on a picture which have only 4 local brushes, 2 "oval" filters, 2 graduated filters,  no local corrections, no lens corrections). I can't believe that the program is such limited, no professional photographer has any chance to work on it! Anyway, it is nothing logical (to me... ) that the new iMac is slower.

          Can you try an experiment? On this exact photo which was so slow, quit Lightroom, change the screen to 1920x1080 resolution, reopen Lightroom and see if the speed has increased.

           

          - How can it be that a new Mac with good devices inside (with runs very well with other programs) is slower than an old PC laptop with weaker devices??

          You are asking Lightroom to do a huge amount more work on a 5k screen than on an older screen with tremendously fewer pixels.

           

          - The process is still slower with the GPU enabled, so why Adobe advised to invest in a good GPU which is supposed to improve speed?

          Please read GPU notes for Lightroom CC (2015) 

           

          - And finally, if there is REALLY no other solution (what I can't resign myself to...), which way can I get the same processing on PS (without camera raw of course) and keeping the same possibility for afterwards modifications than LR?

          Photoshop is a different program. It edits pixel by pixel. It doesn't use a non-destructive formula-type algorithm which Lightroom uses. You can't compare the two.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
            Bob Somrak Level 6

            I agree 45 seconds is absolutely BAD performance. What is the speed of the Temp slider WITHOUT any edits on the same photo.  As a test I just did 6 brushes, 5 graduated and 3 radial filters all with clarity, dehaze and sharpness  (which I assume are more processor intensive) on a 10000x3000 pixel DNG pano and my Temp slider went from almost real time with no edits to less than a second to update with the above edits.  This is with a 2015 27" 5k iMac with the 4ghz I7, 16gb RAM and an internal SSD.  GPU is enabled although that doesn't seem to make much difference.  The Photos, Previews and Catalog are on an external Thunderbolt Lacie SSD. 

            • 3. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
              dj_paige Level 9

              Bob, could you state the exact make and model of your CPU and GPU?

              • 4. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                dc99366833 Level 1

                To answer to your questions :

                 

                what actions in LR are slow?

                 

                - all the process is slowing down when I had corrections. To give you a precise example, the photo I was talking about has exactly :

                 

                - some standard corrections (exposure, contrastes...)

                - 4 local brushes with various corrections

                - 2 "oval filter"

                - 1 graduated filter

                - lens corrections

                 

                I tried your experiment regarding resolution, on this same pics :

                 

                Results are surprising!

                 

                Changing the T° from 7400 K to 50000 K :

                 

                - with the lowest resolution (1600x900):

                1'05"

                - with the highest one (3200x1600) :

                15"!!

                - hightest resolution with GPU enabled :

                colors changed quickly, but the pictures get clear only after 25'

                 

                The result is exactly the opposite on "virgin" pictures (no post-treatment) : changes are clearly more fluid with the lowest resolution.

                 

                I did these tests several times to be sure and result are always the same.

                 

                - The GPU is a AMD radeon R9 M395 X, 4 GB.

                • 5. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                  Bob Somrak Level 6

                  I don't know the exact MODEL number of the CPU but it is the best Apple puts in the Late 2015 iMac.  I do know it is from the new SKYLAKE series.

                   

                  Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 8.42.30 AM.png

                   

                  Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 8.42.55 AM.png

                  • 6. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                    dc99366833 Level 1

                    Thanks for this checking.

                    The fact is that doesn't happen on a picture if I do only 5 brushes, 2 radials and so, but when I'm doing changes afterwards (a little bit more light on this one, a little bit less sharpness on the other one... well, post-processing), but it seems difficult to get the effect we want without some checking...

                    • 7. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                      Bob Somrak Level 6

                      Cpu model is as follows

                       

                      Screen Shot 2016-08-22 at 8.51.40 AM.png

                      • 8. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                        Bob Somrak Level 6

                        dc99366833 wrote:

                         

                        Thanks for this checking.

                        The fact is that doesn't happen on a picture if I do only 5 brushes, 2 radials and so, but when I'm doing changes afterwards (a little bit more light on this one, a little bit less sharpness on the other one... well, post-processing), but it seems difficult to get the effect we want without some checking...

                        Your original post said (eg : 45 sec to change the T° from 7400 to 7300 K on a picture which have only 4 local brushes, 2 "oval" filters, 2 graduated filters,  no local corrections, no lens corrections)." so that is what I based my tests on. 

                         

                        This still doesn't change the fact that 45 seconds to change ANY slider is EXTREMELY  poor and unacceptable performance and something else must be going on.   The only slider that has ever slowed  me down this much and I don't even remember it being that bad is when I used the moire brush a bunch just to test it out and it brought Lightroom to almost a standstill.  That was a long time ago though when the moire brush first was released.  I have only used it a couple times since in small areas and it was ok.

                        • 9. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                          dc99366833 Level 1

                          Thank you Bob. Yes, I have the same conclusion : something else must be going on. It's not possible that a software get so slow, nobody would be able to use it in a professional mode.

                           

                          And it is the reason I post on this forum, as Adobe hotline didn't found out the issue. I hope someone here will do.

                           

                          Best regards.

                          • 10. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                            dc99366833 Level 1

                            Hello again,

                             

                            One more information which could help : launching LR is much quicker on the IMac than on the PC laptop, 5,5 sec vs 14 sec.

                            Maybe because the Mac is using the SSD to launch programs, as they told me at Apple (?).

                            Anyway, it seems that there is no trouble with the computer, just with LR.

                             

                            Any help??

                            • 11. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                              dc99366833 Level 1

                              So nobody has answer to this question?

                              • 12. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                Dr Tone Level 1

                                Where is your catalog stored?  Where are your photos stored?

                                 

                                Did you try toggling GPU acceleration off to see if it makes a difference?

                                • 13. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                  dj_paige Level 9

                                  The result is exactly the opposite on "virgin" pictures (no post-treatment) : changes are clearly more fluid with the lowest resolution.

                                  Well, I hate to say this, because no one wants to hear this, but these very large screens and brushing and/or spot healing don't really mix well. This is a known drawback to brushing and spot healing in Lightroom.

                                   

                                  Perhaps you could try a slight modification of the above: take a "virgin" photo, do lots of editing but NO brushing and NO spot healing. Does the response time of Lightroom remain adequate? Try this with GPU acceleration ON and again with GPU acceleration OFF. If possible, try at different screen resolutions. including full 5K resolution.

                                   

                                  Please report the results.

                                   

                                  Thank you.

                                  • 14. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                    dc99366833 Level 1

                                    Hello Dr Tone,

                                     

                                    I already check GPU ON and OFF.

                                    But not the way my catalogs are stored an the IMAC, I will do so, maybe an idea... Thank you for the suggestion anyway.

                                    • 15. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                      dc99366833 Level 1

                                      Thank you for your answer, I will check that and let you know.

                                      I don't see what could explain that LR is quicker on "processed" pictures and slower on "virgin" ones... that seems crazy, no? Or maybe means that something is wrong somewhere...

                                      • 16. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                        Dr Tone Level 1

                                        At the very least get your catalog on the fast SSD on the iMac.  Depending on storage requirements there is a small bit of performance to gain by having your photos on an SSD as well but not near as important as the Catalog and it's associated cache.

                                        • 17. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                          dj_paige Level 9

                                          dc99366833 wrote:

                                           

                                          Thank you for your answer, I will check that and let you know.

                                          I don't see what could explain that LR is quicker on "processed" pictures and slower on "virgin" ones... that seems crazy, no? Or maybe means that something is wrong somewhere...

                                          As I said, brushing and spot healing have this known problem that Lightroom slows down, particularly with large screen monitors, and the slowdown gets worse as you do more and more brushing and/or spot healing.

                                          • 18. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                            dj_paige Level 9

                                            Dr Tone wrote:

                                             

                                            At the very least get your catalog on the fast SSD on the iMac. Depending on storage requirements there is a small bit of performance to gain by having your photos on an SSD as well but not near as important as the Catalog and it's associated cache.

                                            Catalog on SSD will not affect anything that happens in the Develop Module, which is where dc99366833 is having problems.

                                            • 19. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                              dc99366833 Level 1

                                              So result of the test :

                                               

                                              Virgin photo:

                                               

                                              Using only graduated filters :

                                               

                                              It start to slow down after 6 filters, even if we didn't reach the 45 sec, we speak about 2-3 secs reaction.

                                              - it is definitely much quicker on this "exercice" with GPU ON !

                                              - it is also quicker with low resolution

                                               

                                              Using only basic processing (color, T°, contraste...):

                                               

                                              it's quick all the time, quicker with GPU ON, no real difference with low or hight resolution.

                                               

                                              Tomorrow I will try more, with brush...

                                              • 20. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                dj_paige Level 9

                                                This confirms what I suspected, that brushing/spot healing with your hardware are the cause of the slowdown. And that in the absence of the brushing/spot healing, and with GPU acceleration turned on, you get relatively good performance.

                                                 

                                                As I said earlier, I think an i5 processor may be too slow for the rest of your hardware. Perhaps (I don't know, I never had a 5K screen), 8GB of memory isn't enough.

                                                • 22. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                  dc99366833 Level 1

                                                  Hello again!

                                                   

                                                  Thanks to your advices, I know more about Lightroom and the way it works, but I cannot admit that it is normal to need 3minutes 10 seconds to change the temperature on a picture I worked on. Something else must be.

                                                   

                                                  So, I tried every advices from here to solve this slow down problem:

                                                   

                                                  - I check all the points from the link "optimize performance" that you advice

                                                  - I bought 16 GB more RAM, so now have 24 GB

                                                  - I called Apple to ask about this slowdown to see if they have a solution on that. After consulting their "experts", they told that it is a know problem on LR. LR seems to run "layers" on the same time, which makes it so slow... One is named "core" and the other one "notifications". One of them must be deleted, but they told me to ask ADOBE which one... So here I am back!... Do you know about that?

                                                   

                                                  Here are the way too reach these files:

                                                   

                                                  Capture d’écran 2016-09-05 à 15.45.07.png

                                                   

                                                  Capture d’écran 2016-09-05 à 15.46.56.png

                                                  • 23. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                    dj_paige Level 9

                                                    . LR seems to run "layers" on the same time, which makes it so slow...

                                                    I guess we can discount anything Apple told you about Lightroom. Deleting those folders in Adobe Desktop Common won't affect the speed at which Lightroom runs.

                                                    There are no layers in Lightroom.

                                                     

                                                    You did not upgrade your processor from i5, this might have helped. You upgraded your memory but this is almost certainly not the cause of slow speed in the develop module.

                                                     

                                                    Please try importing a new photo, perform all editing you want, except don't do any brushing or spot healing on it. See if the speed is improved and acceptable. I'm sure it will be.

                                                    • 24. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                      dc99366833 Level 1

                                                      The term "layers" is certainly not the right one, but they said 2 "things" are running in the same time.

                                                      They said they have frequently this questions from Adobe users. Are you sure that these 2 files are not fighting each other?

                                                      I just invest 3000 € in a new mac, and upgrading the processor for a core i7 will be an other heavy bill. I thought that a 4 ghz core i5 processor would be enough to run Lightroom! Well, I actually got this from Adobe as I called them before buying it. Anyway, I'm not sure that up-grading the processor will change the speed from 3 minutes to fluid, something else must be involved.

                                                       

                                                      A new photo is of course quicker than a processed one, but if I process it, I meet again the same problem.

                                                      I use very few spot healing but I'm used to work with brushes a lot (local corrections for sharpness, colors, light, dodge and burn...), and I don't see how to replace it.

                                                      • 25. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                        dj_paige Level 9

                                                        If those two things were "fighting each other" then every Lightroom user would experience the slowdown. Asking Apple for advice about how to speed up Lightroom is a waste of time, in my opinion.

                                                         

                                                        A new photo is of course quicker than a processed one, but if I process it, I meet again the same problem.

                                                        This doesn't clearly match what I asked you to do above. Maybe your wording is the problem, you actually did what I asked and just didn't explain it clearly. I want you to edit a photo, with zero brushing and zero spot healing. Is that what you did? Does the editing speed slow down, or not? Or does the slow down begin when you apply lots of brushing?

                                                         

                                                        Anyway, I'm not sure that up-grading the processor will change the speed from 3 minutes to fluid, something else must be involved.

                                                        Possibly not, but your belief that your i5 processor is not the cause of slowdown is just plain wrong. The CPU is the primary piece of hardware that determines the speed in editing (unless the GPU acceleration is turned on), and it is the part of the computer that has to do a huge amount of work when there is a lot of brushing. Well, I've made this point several times now, I guess I'll stop.

                                                        • 26. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                          dc99366833 Level 1

                                                          I was not asking Apple about LR, but why a new machine is so slow. They just detected by themselves that the only problems are with LR and "experts" said they already meet this problem several times.

                                                           

                                                          I have tried many tests as you propose. For example, a new picture with only 4 radial filters and nothing else is getting quite slow. It takes for example 10 sec to switch from develop to library. 10 sec is a very long time if you want to work with this program.

                                                           

                                                          For the CPU, I know perfectly that it has for sure an impact on the speed, but LR is so slow for "easy" picture that there must be something else, every professional photographer I know confirmed that LR can't need minutes to do something. Maybe my catalogs have wrong parameters, maybe two things are working together... I don't know. I lost a lot of time with this program. I think I just have to forget about it and cancel my Creative Cloud inscription. Thanks for your help anyway, I see you tried your best.

                                                          • 27. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                            dc99366833 Level 1

                                                            Looking on forums, you can meet many people meeting exactly the same speed issue with LR.

                                                            An example here down with an advanced LR user with a core i7, also meeting strong speed problem.

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                             

                                                            5K Imac Speed Issues

                                                            Discussion in 'Lightroom Installation & Performance' started by GES, Monday at 5:44 AM.

                                                            1.  

                                                              GES

                                                              GESNew Member

                                                              Joined:
                                                              Monday
                                                              Messages:
                                                              3
                                                              Lightroom Experience:
                                                              Advanced
                                                              Primary OS:
                                                              Mac 10.11.x El Capitan
                                                              Lightroom Version:
                                                              6.6 / CC 2015.6
                                                              Lightroom License:
                                                              CC Subscription

                                                               

                                                              New

                                                               

                                                              5K iMac Speed issues…….. (What else is new)

                                                              My set up:
                                                              Operating system: Mac OS 10
                                                              Version: 10.11 [5]
                                                              Application architecture: x64
                                                              Logical processor count: 8
                                                              Processor speed: 4.0 GHz
                                                              Built-in memory: 24,576.0 MB
                                                              Real memory available to Lightroom: 24,576.0 MB
                                                              Real memory used by Lightroom: 2,835.7 MB (11.5%)
                                                              Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 3,872.8 MB
                                                              Memory cache size: 1,826.1 MB
                                                              Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 8
                                                              Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2
                                                              Displays: 1) 5120x2880, 2) 1680x1050
                                                              Graphics Processor Info:
                                                              AMD Radeon R9 M395X OpenGL Engine 4megs

                                                              Lightroom:
                                                              I have LR prefs set to use the graphics processor
                                                              I also have LR setup to add Lens Correction to images upon import
                                                              I use the whole 5K display at its default setting (Thats why I got a 5K)
                                                              I have done all of the rebuilding of pref files and rebooting to the point I’ve lost count.
                                                              I have done memory tests and graphic hardware tests .. everything checks out
                                                              I use the activity monitor and memory does not seem to be an issue if I read it right.

                                                              First off I’d like to ask if there is anyone who has a late 2015 5K iMac running the latest version of El Capitan and Lightroom CC…. Who does not have any speed issues?
                                                              If so, I would greatly appreciate knowing how your machine is set up!!!

                                                              The majority of my issues are related to the Develop module ..
                                                              When I first start up everything I have no issues… but after I get through eliminating dust spots, adding a few gradients, and other development adjustments on maybe four or five images .. everything starts slowing. Dust spotting lags 3 to 4 seconds, using the brush tool lags 4 to six seconds, just moving from one image to another has a lag time of 2 to three seconds..all of which is annoying to say the least.

                                                              One other strange issue that happen…. I use dual displays.. sometimes when I start up Lightroom it behaves as if the Secondary Display is the Main Display and I have to reboot LR or go to Display Prefs and click a few times to get it to revert to normal…

                                                              Look forward to a cure... thanks everyone....
                                                              GES
                                                            • 28. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                              davisf79702125

                                                              It curious Mac advisers have not attempted to answer your question, which BTW is very similar to mine.

                                                              • 29. Re: LR, PC, MAC and... speed
                                                                John T Smith Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                If by "Mac advisers" you mean an Adobe employee, you need to know that very few Adobe employees read/reply in these forums

                                                                 

                                                                If you want to contact Adobe, you have to use the link below

                                                                Select a topic, then click I STILL NEED HELP to activate Photoshop Elements Online chat

                                                                -http://helpx.adobe.com/contact.html?product=photoshop-elements