29 Replies Latest reply on Sep 10, 2016 8:21 AM by jerryp97433002

    Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6

    jerryp97433002 Level 1

      When taking interior shots & wanting to see views of the exterior through windows, open doors or sliders, it usually gets blown out so I always use a flash and exposure for the exterior view, now the flash lights the room properly (Most times) and no more blown out windows and this works out nicely. However is it possible to do the same using the HDR Merge in LR6. Tried it a few time an can't seem to get good results. I have a good range of exposure settings, I'll take 5 images 2ev apart and once I blend them and re-import to LR6 the exterior views are blown out to some degree, not anywhere near as good as when using a flash. Also the entire image has a white cast to it due to blending the few overexposed images I would guess. I do the same for interior only shots and it works out really nice, especially when lighting is bad, but turn it towards a window or slider and the results are not pretty. Any thoughts? Is it even possible to get the same results as a flash or am I dreaming?

       

      Thanks to all who respond-jp

        • 1. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Can you upload your 5 photos to www.dropbox.com and post a public share link to them, here?

          • 2. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
            gary_sc Adobe Community Professional

            You cannot get the SAME result with HDR as you can with flashes, you will get a different result. That result may or may not be satisfactory to what you want in your image. I have been doing HDR for over 6 years now and I find the result very satisfactory. However, it's not the kind of thing that you can simple set things up and walk away with a finished result. There are a variety of adjustments after the fact that I have to do to get the image I want.

             

            Please note, IF you are saving your images (from the camera) in a raw format, you do not need all 5 images (2 stops apart), you can safely use the 1, 3, and 5 images (4 stops apart). If you are using jpgs than stay with all 5.

             

            Also note that there are some new tools in CC that can help considerably in darkening the highlight regions that you cannot do with LR6 due to the Highlight Slider maxed out when making an HDR in LR (all versions).

             

            Good luck, let us know if this is the info you need/want.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
              jerryp97433002 Level 1

              Thanks for your comment. I only do the hdr merge when I have to and like the results I get when a room is poorly lit as long as I shoot into a room setting without any windows or sliders say a kitchen, I do get excellent results after I develop in LR (see link to photos), looking for a realistic look not hdrish look and over saturated colors. I started doing real estate photography a little over a year ago and doing well with the flash and a few months ago started doing hdr merge with particular shots that give me poor lighting conditions and use flash whenever possible. But at times a flash in close quarters isn't your friend.

               

              As you can see the hdr merge of the 5 images, 100iso (raw not jpg) with the view comes out on the washed out side even after developed in LR, did the best I could and not happy with the result. The other image was with a flash which came out a lot better. The kitchen image by itself is 5 images, 100iso (raw) taken 2ev apart and developed in LR, blended nicely and pleasing to look at. These are being uploaded to the MLS (Multiple Listing Service) so they don't have to be perfect but I try to do my best because sometimes they use the images for flyers. I use a Sony A7II with a 16-35mm f4 Lens, great lens for interiors.

               

              I was thinking maybe it was my metering, all my blended images were multi-pattern metering and the camera chose for each image. Is this best for hdr or should I use spot or center metering modes that might help improve my interior shots with a view? When using a flash I lock on the brightest part of the image usually the exterior view then shoot with good results.

               

              Your Thoughts-jp

               

              https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_lg7UjycYRYRGFRVEhrWWJRRWs&usp=sharing

              • 4. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                jerryp97433002 Level 1

                I don't have dropbox but here is a link to the images on my google drive. I also included a shot of a kitchen using the same 5 blend image merge of a kitchen, after the merge I develop ion LR for best image quality and don't expect to get those type of results only after a merge. Images were taken in raw & 100iso. When I do this for interior shots only without any windows or sliders I usually get pretty good results as you can see by the kitchen shot, but put a window or slider with light coming in and its a different story. Image is hard to develop and the views aren't anywhere near as good as when I use a flash. I've read articles that say it can be but I can never get it to work. But for interior shots without any windows or sliders in the shot, kitchens, bathrooms, etc... it comes out nicely and realistic looking.

                 

                Your thoughts?   jp

                 

                https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B_lg7UjycYRYRGFRVEhrWWJRRWs&usp=sharing

                • 5. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                  ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Since you didn't post raw, I'm not sure, but it seems that you could probably tone the 2253-1 image and be done, without doing any HDR merging.  At most you would need to use two images.  A more sophisticated HDR toning engine like the now free Google Nik plug-ins might work better.  To install them  you may need to use a custom PS path to include the .5.

                  • 6. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                    jerryp97433002 Level 1

                    Thanks for your insight, I did download the Google Nik plug-ins when they became available (Free) It seemed to slow down my workflow even though I wasn't using it. Sliders had a lag to them when I made adjustments so I un-installed Nik and LR worked better. After playing around a bit with Nik I came to realize I didn't like the program much, read good things but found it difficult to learn and use. Its all about workflow and moving from image to image in a timely manner, I think I'll stick with using the flash, its all about the views and the attributes the home has to offer. I live in the Fl Keys, water and ocean views are everything. I purchased LR so I don't have PS as an option to do masks, that would be the best alternative to keeping great views and eliminating shadows cast by a flash. I am considering doing the monthly thing for LR & PS but also considering a new computer shortly and think it be wise to wait. I use a PC & giving iMac some thought. If I go pc it will be a build to suit my needs & I can upgrade, has more versatility then a iMac all-in-one.

                     

                    Thanks for your insight...jp

                    • 7. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                      JoeKostoss Adobe Community Professional

                      I found in general that Lightroom HDR works best with only 2 images, +2 and -2.  The more images you add, the less effective LR is at HDR and the slower it becomes.

                      • 8. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                        jerryp97433002 Level 1

                        Thanks, I'll give that a try. Looks like my question has been answered, basically you'll never get a merged photo in LR and showcase the exterior views from within like you would with a flash. I was wondering if it was something I was doing wrong, I now think it just has its limitations....jp

                        • 9. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Part of the problem is that you have

                           

                          jerryp97433002 wrote:

                           

                          I was wondering if it was something I was doing wrong, I now think it just has its limitations....jp

                          LR HDR has limitations if you only use the Basic panel controls. When Highlights and Shadows are at maximum settings (-100, +100) the image can still be recovered further using the Local Adjustment Brush. The below image was shot with just window light using three 2EV spaced image files (-2, 0 +2 EV). The windows were painted with a +1.2 EV Exposure Adjustment Brush and some of the shadow areas with a +1.25 Exposure Adjustment Brush. It really doesn't take that long since you can use the Erase Brush (ALT key) to clean up spillover. I use a Wacom tablet, but a mouse works fine as well.

                          LR HDR Three 2EV Bracket Files.jpg

                          Here are the Basic panel control settings:

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                            Bob Somrak Level 5

                            trshaner wrote:

                             

                            LR HDR has limitations if you only use the Basic panel controls. When Highlights and Shadows are at maximum settings (-100, +100) the image can still be recovered further using the Local Adjustment Brush. The below image was shot with just window l

                             

                             

                            Jerry.

                            As trshaner pointed out the basic sliders for highlights and shadows when set at maximum still leave a lot of room for adjustment in the HDR file.  If Adobe would just change these two sliders to have a 125 or so range instead of 100 when doing HDR it would really make the HDR more useful.  They doubled the EXPOSURE to +/- 10 from 5 which is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS and just makes it harder to do a fine adjustment of exposure.   I have asked several times on the forum for someone to show me a photo using HDR where you need more than the standard +/-5 exposure but still have not received one and I doubt there is one.  I can show you HDR photos all day that could use a little more highlight/shadow.

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                              jerryp97433002 Level 1

                              Wow...that's it, makes perfect sense now that you've explained it. That's why I don't have an issue when taking interior photos without any window or slider lighting to deal with and it comes out great, no 2 different light sources. Thanks for your help, I've been trying to figure out for awhile what I was doing wrong.

                               

                              Many Thanks.....jp

                              • 12. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                Thanks for your insight, makes sense now....jp

                                • 13. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                  richardplondon Level 4

                                  In my experience, there's plenty of adjustment range provided that you've included the Contrast slider in your considerations alongside Exposure. These two are really the primary adjustments IMO, so far as mapping out your core tones.

                                   

                                  Shadows and Highlights are of course great for tweaking things pictorially, with Clarity. Whites and Blacks too. But if you are finding these kinds of secondary tool running out of power - perhaps that may be, because other more primary adjustments higher up the Basic panel, have simply left them with a lot still to do?

                                   

                                  (of course I am not suggesting these physically operate with that particular dependency - just observing in terms of practical results)

                                  I have asked several times on the forum for someone to show me a photo using HDR where you need more than the standard +/-5 exposure but still have not received one and I doubt there is one. I can show you HDR photos all day that could use a little more highlight/shadow.

                                  • 14. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                    Bob Somrak Level 5

                                    I was talking specifically about Lr generated HDR photos.  The fact they supposedly have more dynamic range and AUTO in HDR almost always giving you 100s for highlight and shadow with dynamic range to spare indicates these sliders could have more range.  You DO NOT need more range on exposure.  I am still waiting to see an HDR photo that needs it.   The HDR  tool would be a lot more useful with an increased range to the highlight and shadow sliders.

                                    • 15. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                      richardplondon Level 4

                                      Yes, I was also referring to HDR generated inside LR (to special DNG format) working from multiple exposures.

                                       

                                      To the extent that you are using Highlights / shadows to address particular tonal areas in your image, you are thereby not using e.g. Exposure and Contrast, or Whites and Blacks, to define your image's mapping of those tones relative to the image data.

                                       

                                      The current +/- range of Shadows and Highlights is accompanied at its extremes, by some rather particular and noticeable local contrast artefacts. Expanding that range, one could only expect those to become yet more apparent. Of course that may be what you'd LIKE to see; but if so, going crazy with Clarity on top gives a similar effect. Or a LOCAL shadow / highlight adjustment can be applied on top - to the whole image if you want. Multiple layers of that, if you want..

                                       

                                      It is your choice of course which tool to use to do what, and conversely, which kinds of adjustment opportunity you are not going to take up. If these tools come with consequences and limits, then that is part of the decision.

                                       

                                      Adobe doesn't generally change things in LR for no reason at all, so I expect that the increase in range for Exposure may have been a response to some more unusual or extreme USE CASE that you don't happen to see (and that nor do I). Perhaps astrophotography, or something of that kind?

                                       

                                      When dealing with HDR luminances, as I said before, Exposure is IMO your primary control even when its default position, by chance or by design, does not need to be touched. And it's a non-linear one so far as highlights in particular.

                                      • 16. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                        jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                        Thanks for your comment...jp

                                        • 17. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                          jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                          Much appreciated, I'm not a fan of hdr unless it can help me with realistic shots. My best alternative is to use a flash or take 2 images and mask in PS for shadows that have been cast. Was hoping that using the hdr blend would facilitate that, and it does to some extent as long as you aren't shooting through windows and sliders hoping to capture the view, thanks for your input....jp.

                                          • 18. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                            richardplondon Level 4

                                            My own focus with HDR is achieving a similar looking output, to that from a single Raw exposure. That's why I personally don't like to go to extreme values with e.g. Shadows. A realistic / natural outcome is quite possible; more natural, typically, than (say) masking down some bright windows with a local adjustment only. But it depends what you are after pictorially.

                                            I'm not a fan of hdr unless it can help me with realistic shots

                                            • 19. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Bob Somrak wrote:

                                               

                                              trshaner wrote:

                                               

                                              LR HDR has limitations if you only use the Basic panel controls. When Highlights and Shadows are at maximum settings (-100, +100) the image can still be recovered further using the Local Adjustment Brush. The below image was shot with just window l

                                               

                                               

                                              They doubled the EXPOSURE to +/- 10 from 5 which is ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS and just makes it harder to do a fine adjustment of exposure. I have asked several times on the forum for someone to show me a photo using HDR where you need more than the standard +/-5 exposure but still have not received one and I doubt there is one.

                                              The LR HDR image I posted requires a +1.2 EV Exposure setting. Using the same image files with Merge to HDR Pro In Photoshop the 32 bit HDR TIFF file requires +4.0 EV Exposure to achieve the same look. That's pretty darn close to the +5.0 EV maximum Exposure setting. I'm sure with an underexposed HDR bracket set it may easily need more than +5.0 Exposure correction. This may also be the case when using 3rd party app created 32 bit HDR image files inside LR.

                                               

                                              As mentioned the Highlight and Shadows controls are already pushing the limit at their maximum 100 settings and can create artifacts. The best suggestion I can provide is to learn how to use the Local controls (i.e. Adjustment Brush) to "paint" in additional Exposure correction. We did this in the bad-old film days when using an enlarger to make a print (Dodging and Burning). It took a lot of time and experience since you didn't see the results until the print was wet-processed and then dried for viewing. With LR's Local tools it EZPZ as you can see the results and adjust settings as required real-time. I even do this on single exposure non-HDR images when I want to pull out shadow detail in specific image areas. Just be careful when doing this with high ISO images as it can increase noise in those shadow areas. Usually adding a little Luminace NR will take care of it.

                                               

                                              Dodge and Burn « Julieanne Kost's Blog

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                gary_sc Adobe Community Professional

                                                Probably one of the biggest mistakes people make with the intention of enhancing local contrast (as opposed to the global contrast of the whole image) is to push saturation. That's one of the reasons why many HDR shots tend to make my teeth hurt--too much contrast. There are fortunately a number of ways that we can push local contrast although some of these are not available in LR 6 such as the new Dehaze feature. By using the Brush Tool in windows and other areas with a subtle Dehaze push, one can bring up a lot of what's outside.

                                                 

                                                In this image though I actually pulled the saturation down a tad because it was too unbelievable but the fall colors were very bright. The image is from a friend of mine's view from his living room in south western New Hampshire. I do not have a clue as to how he gets any work done in fall.....

                                                 

                                                from a friends living room.jpg

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                  jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                  Thanks for the tip, don't have any Dehaze programs, I thin Topaz does...jp Image looks really nice btw, awesome view.

                                                  • 22. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                    jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                    Yeah I've used the dodge and burn in LR but get mixed results, depends on the image, just wish when selected it gave you the same adjustments the main module has, I find it rather limiting, can't have it all I guess....jp

                                                    • 23. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      What LR version are you using LR 6 and CC 2015 have all of Basic panel control's and more except LR 6 does not have Dehaze. Use you own Adjustment Brush controls and setting values. You're not limited to what the Dodge & Burn presets use.  Also keep in mind there is a limit on how much range is available. The Local control will have limited effect if the Global control is at its maximum setting (i.e. -100 Highlights and +100 Shadows) unless opposite values are being applied (-Global and +Local). The Exposure, Temp, and Tint control do not have this limitation so Dodging and Burning with those controls should work as expected. Explain exactly what you mean by "mixed results" and perhaps I can provide a more suggestions.

                                                      • 24. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                        jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                        Sometimes I get the look I'm aiming for and other times I don't, has to do more with trying to pull more out of the selected areas when exposure just wasn't right. You can just pull so much out of an area sometimes. I don't have any trouble or issues using the adjustment brush, I find it a very helpful tool and use it all the time, I just wish it included the following: Basic Panel - Tone/Whites & Blacks, & HSL that would include all colors instead of just all-in-one saturation slider. That's how I find it limiting at times...jp 

                                                        • 25. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          jerryp97433002 wrote:

                                                           

                                                          I just wish it included the following: Basic Panel - Tone/Whites & Blacks, & HSL that would include all colors instead of just all-in-one saturation slider.

                                                          Adjustment Brush Whites and Blacks are available in LR 6 CC 2015.6. HSL has been requested added to the Local controls, but not yet implemented. If you're trying to increase or decrease saturation of a specific color you can do that by selectively painting in that area with 'Auto Mask' checked. It will only apply the brush settings to the color in first area you start brushing.

                                                          • 26. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                            jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                            Thanks for the help, much appreciated as always....jp

                                                            • 27. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                              jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                              Have another unrelated question, is there any way to remove exif data from an image in LR6? And if not is there a program that allows you to do so?    jp

                                                              • 28. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                To remove EXIF data from Export image files select "Copyright Only" in the Metadata panel

                                                                To remove EXIF data from original raw files and DNGs you'll need to use something like ExifTool or other app (Google it). I use ExifTool GUI Modify> Remove> Remove metadata:

                                                                 

                                                                • 29. Re: Multiple Image HDR Merge LR6
                                                                  jerryp97433002 Level 1

                                                                  Thanks for the help...jp