24 Replies Latest reply on Sep 15, 2016 4:37 AM by Eugene Tyson

    Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI

    Nalfaren Level 1

      Hi, this have been something that has been like this for years and I have never found an explanation or solution.

      Say we need to create a high resolution big banner like 5x5 meters. It needs to still be high resolution at least 125 dpi.

       

      So the setup:

      Size 3400x4700mm

      Photoshop saves a TIF with 125 dpi no layers.

      Indesign, place the TIF file, add some vector logos/text.

      Export to PDF - Acrobat 5 (PDF 1.4), cropmarks and bleed as usual.

       

      At 125 ppi the file size will be around 1.2 GB!

      At 110 ppi the file size will be around 930 MB.

      At 104 dpi the file size will be around 850 MB.

      At 100 ppi the file size will be around 130 MB.

       

      filesize.PNG

       

      Why is this, it takes time to find the magic number where it will drop in size, and sometimes it actually is to low dpi for us.

      Any workarounds or settings i should try? Or just an explanation.

       

      Note: I've seen the drop in size often occur if the TIF file is less than 30.000 pixels in dimension H/W.

      In this case this didn't matter.

        • 1. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

          Have you tried adding the vector content in Photoshop and saving as PDF there?

          • 2. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
            Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            What are your PDF output settings?

             

            Why not just leave it at 125dpi and a large file size?

            • 3. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              But Peter - Vector Smart Objects would be output as raster

              • 4. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                Nalfaren Level 1

                Hi, exporting Photoshop PDF will raster my vector and many printer setups don't like the Photoshop PDFs

                But I did test it now, without adding vector, the 104 ppi file will be 500 MB.

                • 5. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                  Nalfaren Level 1

                  Some printers will have issues with huge file sizes. Some will crash, not open and similar issues. Most will work though.

                  But this time they tell us the filesize limit should be 400 mb at 125 ppi. So it will work at 100, but at the same time. This

                  has been an issue many times over the years

                   

                  My export settings are as follows:

                  Compatibility: Acrobat 5 (PDF 1.4)

                   

                   

                  Standards Compliance: None

                   

                   

                  General

                      Pages: All

                      Spreads: Off

                      View: Default

                      Layout: Default

                      Full Screen: Off

                      Generate Thumbnails: Off

                      Optimise PDF: On

                      Create Acrobat Layers: N/A

                      Export Layers: Visible and Printable Layers

                      Include Bookmarks: Off

                      Include Hyperlinks: Off

                      Export Nonprinting Objects: Off

                      Export Visible Guides and Baseline Grids: Off

                      Create Tagged PDF: On

                      Interactive Elements: Do Not Include

                   

                   

                  Compression

                      Colour Images

                          Bicubic Downsample at: 300 ppi

                          for images above: 450 ppi

                          Compression: Automatic

                          Tile Size: N/A

                          Quality: Maximum

                   

                   

                      Greyscale Images

                          Bicubic Downsample at: 300 ppi

                          for images above: 450 ppi

                          Compression: Automatic

                          Tile Size: N/A

                          Quality: Maximum

                   

                   

                      Monochrome Images

                          Bicubic Downsample at: 1200 ppi

                          for images above: 1800 ppi

                          Compression: CCITT Group 4

                   

                   

                      Compress Text and Line Art: On

                      Crop Image Data to Frames: On

                   

                   

                  Marks and Bleeds

                      Crop Marks: On

                      Bleed Marks: Off

                      Registration Marks: Off

                      Colour Bars: Off

                      Page Information: Off

                      Page Mark Type: Default

                      Weight: 0.25 pt

                      Offset: 2,117 mm

                      Use Document Bleed Settings: On

                      Bleed Top: 5 mm

                      Bleed Bottom: 5 mm

                      Bleed Left: 5 mm

                      Bleed Right: 5 mm

                      Include Slug Area: Off

                   

                   

                   

                   

                  Advanced

                      Subset Fonts Below: 100%

                      Omit PDF: Off

                      Omit EPS: Off

                      Omit Bitmap Images: Off

                      Transparency Flattener Preset: N/A

                      Ignore Spread Overrides: N/A

                  • 6. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                    Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                    Here's my theory. A large image resampled during PDF export is creating more non-contiguous pixels in this process, which defeats the ability of compression to make a smaller file. You are probably (through the process of trial and error) finding a resolution resample in which neighboring pixels can remain contiguous, and allow compression to reduce file size.

                    • 7. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                      Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                      Here is an image that demonstrates the resample process: The 4x4 image on left has 4 contiguous sections of color. Resize to a 3x3 image, every neighboring pixel is different. Although smaller in pixel count, larger in color depth.

                      resample.jpg

                      • 8. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                        Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                        Eugene Tyson wrote:

                         

                        But Peter - Vector Smart Objects would be output as raster

                        Really? I've always thought the whole point of saving as PDF from Photoshop is to keep the vectors live. Perhaps smart objects behave differently from drawn or pasted paths?

                        • 9. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                          Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                          OK, just tried it and it seems to be true that smart vectors are rasterized. Pooh.

                          • 10. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                            Nalfaren Level 1

                            Yeah It sucks, i have many clients that put alot of work adding texts, logos, in different places and sizes and styles in Photoshop.

                            Takes some time to recreate in InDesign in order to get vector on everything. I have tried a couple of "workarounds" but none work

                            for me as intended so I usually have to create a "placeholder tif" with logos, copy paste text with style, and recreate. Re-place all logos in Indesign. Then change the background tif to a Clean one without the added items. If special effects are added you have to hide the color and keep the style or rasterize if to advanced.

                             

                            i WOULD LOVE if Export to PDF worked exactly like InDesign but from Photoshop, keeping vector/shapes/logos and placed items

                            that are vector as vector in PDF.

                            • 11. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                              Nalfaren Level 1

                              Thanks for information, perhaps. But can we incorporate this information in some way in order to it to work as intended or to calculate when it would work. I have now tried several settings when exporting the 104 ppi version. But all is same 800+mb in size.

                               

                              I've tried

                              Settings compression in PDF to JPG, ZIP, Uncompressed and also disable crop export and more.

                              Exporting to latest pdf 1.7 and different configurations and standards.

                              Tried Uncompressed TIF from photoshop and only used PDF compression.

                              And alot of other settings that might have been trying to resample or resize in anyway.

                               

                              They are still very large

                               

                              imagesize.PNG

                               

                               

                              And as a reminder for those only reading last post. If it had been 100 ppi instead of 104. It would be 130 Mb and not 800+

                              • 12. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                Jeffrey_Smith Most Valuable Participant

                                With my theory, compression is the cause. If you take compression out of the process, the different PDF file sizes should parallel the resampled resolution without any deviation. Have you tried exporting without compression? If you have tried without using compression, and see these results, then something else is happening.

                                • 13. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                  Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Hi Peter - yes - the Vector Smart Objects remain as vectors within photoshop for scaling.  But then it is rasterised to the native file resolution on output.

                                   

                                  It's one of those hidden gems that eventually catch even the seasoned pros out!

                                  • 14. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                    Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                       Colour Images

                                            Bicubic Downsample at: 300 ppi

                                            for images above: 450 ppi

                                     

                                    Change this to 125 for images above 125.

                                     

                                    Let me know.

                                    • 15. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                      Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      If someone has put Vector Smart Objects in Photoshop - double click that layer icon to open the file in Illustrator - then save the vector from there.

                                       

                                      Remove the layer from photoshop - once you've overlaid it in the correct position in InDesign.

                                      • 16. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                        Nalfaren Level 1

                                        Yeah i've tried Do Not downsample, and 125 for 125 or 100 for 100. And all other compression settings.

                                        It didn't seem to make any changes. The tif file standalone is aroudn 750 mb.

                                        • 17. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                          Nalfaren Level 1

                                          I usually do this aswell I'm so glad most of my clients send packaged Indesign documents with Links. Although many just send the indesign document and need to be reminded of all the Linked

                                          • 18. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                            Nalfaren Level 1

                                            No sorry, I have tried that aswell.

                                            But in earlier versions of InDesign especially this could sometimes fix RAM error, or Unable to save PDFs for Large documents. But luckily that error seems to have gone away in the latest versions.

                                            • 19. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                              Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Have you saved the tif with compression?

                                              • 20. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                                Nalfaren Level 1

                                                Yes, as standard.

                                                But i also tried:

                                                Tif without compression, with another compression, in prechannel ordering. Also tried Photoshop EPS and Photoshop PSD file, but same results

                                                • 21. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                                  Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  Is it placed at 100% in scale and at the output resolution you require.

                                                   

                                                  That's something I'd try. Size the image exactly to the output size and required resolution.

                                                  • 22. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                                    Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Why is it a Tiff? It might have been mentioned or not, but if there's no vector information (even if there is it's being rasterised) would you not save it as a JPEG?

                                                    Dare I say it - but JPEG at max settings should be fine. It's only when you start reducing the quality of the jpeg that you'll notice any difference, in print anyway.

                                                    • 23. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                                      Nalfaren Level 1

                                                      Hi,

                                                      It is at correct size and is not being resized in Indesign.

                                                      Hm, i have not worked with jpeg for printing purposes, didn't think that is the standard way. I create around 1000 designs each year and i probably never used jpg. Isn't jpg a destructive format? Can it be saved as CMYK? Anyhow i usually work with TIF/PSD and then adding it to InDesign, there i add vectors, text, logos and export to PDF.

                                                      • 24. Re: Huge PDFs when exporting large DPI
                                                        Eugene Tyson Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        As said, jpeg at the highest setting, you shouldn't notice anything print.

                                                         

                                                        I use jpegs all the time - have for over a decade.

                                                         

                                                        Yes - jpeg is a destructive format - but tests over the years on these forums and other trusted sites have debunked that theory - as long as you keep it the max.

                                                         

                                                        Print quality has never suffered in my opinion.

                                                         

                                                        CMYK profiles can be used in Jpeg - no problem.

                                                         

                                                        I'm pretty sure you can embed a CMYK profile with a PNG - even if it is always RGB - I've been trying to find an article/notes by Dov Isaacs - but I don't see them anywhere online about this.