18 Replies Latest reply on Sep 30, 2016 1:48 AM by Peter Spier

    paragraph styles

    left bank books Level 1

      for no good reason I'm just now getting around to really using paragraph styles. but i've run into a glitch. the document i'm working on has a TON of garbage styles attached to it from the word document (which has an OCR'd scan...). But right now, I'm having this problem where I'm trying to apply styles to headings and whatnot, but the style getting applied to more than what is highlighted, presumably because indesign thinks that I'm only highlighting part of a "paragraph", and it's doing the whole "paragraph", even though it's actually just part of a heading. Is there a way to un-paragraphize stuff? So that the stuff before and after it doesn't have to be the same style? Mac/CS6

        • 1. Re: paragraph styles
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          I would recommend not to delete all wrong styles in the first step. My recommendation is:

          1. Turn on invisible characters, so you see any useless line break.
          2. Create a folde in the paragraph  and one in the character style panel
          3. Move all existing styles into these folders. Later we will delete them.
          4. Create the correct Paragraph Styles in InDesign. If necessary also your Character Styles. But be aware a Character Style does only contain that part of a character definition which makes it different from its host paragraph style.
          5. If it is a clean Word document, you can run a find & replace and find a property and replace it with a style, either a paragraph style or a character style, but because it an OCR scan you will have to do manually in the next step.
          6. Go through paragraph by paragraph, delete line breaks, apply none character and the correct paragraph style.
          7. From time to time, go to the style panels and in the menu select non used styles and delete them. At the end the folders with the from Word inherited styles should be empty, so you can delete them at all.
          8. Clean up the document with find & replace with GREP. There are some given presets, like to remove trailing spaces, multiple spaces and returns. All should be cleaned up. Do it.
          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: paragraph styles
            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

            Paragraph styles are applied to entire paragraphs only. They cannot be applied to only part of a paragraph. To change the style of selected text that is only part of a paragraph you use a CHARACTER style.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: paragraph styles
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              I think the problem is here and often that people are not aware what a paragraph is. It is often confused with a line break, mostly with a forced line break. And OCR documents don't make a difference here often. So becomes every single line, or at least some of them, its own paragraph, or the other way round, the OCR thinks that 2 paragraphs are only several lines of the same. With any OCR a manual check, line by line against line breaks and paragraph ends has do be done.

              1 person found this helpful
              • 4. Re: paragraph styles
                BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                As a trainer, I am compelled to pop in and suggest that you step back and learn the two features that are getting mixed up first, and then you can go back to your document and hit the ground running.

                 

                Start with Paragraph styles to format entire paragraphs:
                Format text with Paragraph Styles in InDesign | Adobe InDesign CC tutorials

                 

                Then use Character styles to modify text within the paragraphs:

                Format text with Character Styles in InDesign | Adobe InDesign CC tutorials

                • 5. Re: paragraph styles
                  left bank books Level 1

                  This is all good info, but doesn't really get at my problem. What I want to do here is apply one paragraph style to "A CHRONICLE OF THE WORKERS’ SOLIDARITY" and another style to "By Oliver MacDonald - Editor of Labour Focus", but InDesign thinks they are the same paragraph. I want to tell InDesign they are different paragraphs. Also, this is going to be an ebook, so I'm trying to avoid hard returns, having heard that hard returns cause problems for e-readers...Screen Shot 2016-09-26 at 5.06.20 PM.png

                  • 6. Re: paragraph styles
                    BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                    The symbol at the end of SOLIDARITY is a soft return or line break, so yes, they are behaving as a single paragraph because they are a single paragraph. Delete that symbol and press Enter to add a hard return (¶). Then they can each use a different paragraph style.

                    • 7. Re: paragraph styles
                      Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                      InDesign does not only think that they are part of the same Paragraph. They ARE indeed part of the same paragraph.

                      You have done line breaks (= forced returns) inside a single paragraph. A line break is done by shift + return.

                      But a paragraph ends only with a simple return.

                       

                      There are only very rare occasions to use forced returns. You should avoid them under normal circumstances. And there are several no goes you should observe:

                      1. Never type multiple spaces in a row, as you have done in the very first line of the screen shot. Use instead tab characters or fixed width white spaces or intents.
                      2. Never type multiple succeeding paragraph breaks. Define correct paragraph styles with space before and after.
                      3. Never use multiple succeeding line breaks. Use dedicated paragraph styles instead, also with space before and after.
                      4. Use forced line breaks only in rare occasions. I use them in lyrics inside the same verse, inside of an address field of the same kind. But even there it would be possible to use different paragraphs.
                      5. Don't use Lock-Caps to write capitalized words, use a Character Style to switch to Caps. Otherwise autocorrection and spell checking and auto-hyphenation will fail. (You have done it in the first paragraphs. If a whole paragraph is capitalized, you don't need to use a character style, define instead the paragraph style with CAPS.

                       

                      The dash after McDonalds is a wrong one. It is a normal divis, but it should be the longer one here.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: paragraph styles
                        Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                        Hard returns is a wrong expression. Most people mean with hard return a forced line break, done with shift + return. This is to avoid.

                        • 9. Re: paragraph styles
                          left bank books Level 1

                          I can't tell if you're telling me I should put a simple return in the spot I'm concerned with or not? And to be extra clear, I'm doing an ebook, and have been told to be wary of using them...

                          • 10. Re: paragraph styles
                            BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                            I want to tell InDesign they are different paragraphs.

                            I can't tell if you're telling me I should put a simple return in the spot I'm concerned with or not?

                            If you want to have two different paragraph styles, you will need to remove the line break and add the ¶—which means yes, press Enter or Return. Otherwise all these lines will be using a single paragraph style, and will be using the same paragraph level commands because they are one single paragraph.

                             

                            Safariss_003.png

                             

                            You can override the character level commands with character styles and/or character-level formatting.

                             

                            Did you get the chance to watch the videos I posted explaining how they both work?

                            • 11. Re: paragraph styles
                              Migintosh Level 4

                              Willi Adelberger wrote:

                               

                              Hard returns is a wrong expression. Most people mean with hard return a forced line break, done with shift + return. This is to avoid.

                              Maybe it's different in Europe, but in the US, a hard return is a paragraph return, and a soft return is a line break (shift+return).

                              • 12. Re: paragraph styles
                                Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                Nope, return is return, regardless of the continent.

                                Why should a forced line break be s SOFT return? It is not, it is a wrong used term, on both sides of the "Deich". Soft would be something that disappears, when it is not needed automatically. It is exactly the opposite of that. A soft hyphen disappears when enough room is, but SHIFT-RETURN will never disappear whatever room is available here.

                                 

                                And be sure, I know EPUBs, I know InDesign: To use SHIFT-RETURN is wrong in most cases.

                                • 13. Re: paragraph styles
                                  Migintosh Level 4

                                  Willi Adelberger wrote:

                                   

                                  Nope, return is return, regardless of the continent.

                                  Why should a forced line break be s SOFT return? It is not, it is a wrong used term, on both sides of the "Deich". Soft would be something that disappears, when it is not needed automatically. It is exactly the opposite of that. A soft hyphen disappears when enough room is, but SHIFT-RETURN will never disappear whatever room is available here.

                                   

                                  And be sure, I know EPUBs, I know InDesign: To use SHIFT-RETURN is wrong in most cases.

                                  Maybe everyone I've heard use the term over the last 20 years (including Barb, who seems very knowledgeable to me) has been using the term wrong.

                                  • 14. Re: paragraph styles
                                    BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                                    Well thank you, Willi! 

                                     

                                    A quick google search on "hard return vs soft return" comes up with this as the first result:

                                    The other way to end a line is to press Shift+Enter; this results in a soft return, sometimes called a line break or a newline character, being entered in the document. Hard returns are used to signify the end of a paragraph, whereas soft returns simply signify the end of a line. Jan 5, 2013

                                    Not that I believe everything I read online, of course!

                                     

                                    Soft returns may have begun their life as word wrap, but language does evolve over time, and both are used interchangeably in the US these days. 

                                     

                                    That said, I've been in this field long enough to be both politically correct and as clear as possible, hence my "soft return or line break" on my first answer. And the use of the pilcrow to visually indicate the hard return.

                                    • 15. Re: paragraph styles
                                      Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                      Bildschirmfoto 2016-09-29 um 06.40.16.png

                                      In Design itself, here a screenshot from the US-EN version, names SHIFT-RETURN “Forced Line Break”.

                                       

                                      Here is the same menu of the German Version:

                                      Bildschirmfoto 2016-09-29 um 06.45.52.png

                                      • 16. Re: paragraph styles
                                        Migintosh Level 4

                                        No one is arguing that it isn't called a forced line break. You are arguing that it isn't also called a soft return, and I'm saying that many people do call it both. I'm not telling you what to call it.

                                        • 17. Re: paragraph styles
                                          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                                          In my opinion the Discretionary Break would fit better to a Soft Break, as it does disappear when not needed without any sign of existence.

                                          • 18. Re: paragraph styles
                                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                            Discretionary break has an entirely different purpose.