19 Replies Latest reply on Oct 19, 2016 1:58 PM by cmoke73

    Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel

    cmoke73 Level 1

      Hallo!

      Meine Frage betrifft die Verwendung von Absatzvorlagen. Mir ist das Prinzip klar. Es ist ein recht spezieller Anspruch, den ich habe.

      Hier der Aufbau von dem zu formatierenden Textrahmen:

       

      • Überschrift [Absatz]
      • Artikelbeschreibung [Absatz]
      • Artikelnummer [Tab] Artikelbezeichnung [Tab] Preis [Absatz]
      • weitere Artikelbeschreibung

       

      Für jeden Absatz habe ich ein Format angelegt und anschließend den nächsten anzuwendenden Absatz markiert. Das funktioniert auch ganz gut. Das Problem ist, dass es immer eine unterschiedliche Anzahl von Artikeln gibt. Das heißt, wenn ich dort "Gleiches Format verwenden" markiere gibt es eine Schleife und der letzte Absatz (weitere Artikelbeschreibung) kann nicht richtig formatiert werden.

       

      Hat jemand eine Idee, wie ich an den letzten Absatz herankomme, egal wie viele Artikel aufgelistet sind. Prämisse ist, die Gesamtformatierung muss automatisch erfolgen anhand von "Format XX und dann nächstes Format anwenden". Kein Benutzer sollte einzelne Absätze noch nachformatieren müssen!

       

      Bin gespann auf die Vorschläge.

        • 1. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
          SJRiegel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          There may well be a better answer, but the only way I know to make this work is to make all of the More item description lines as one paragraph, using shift-return instead of a plain return between them.

          • 2. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
            cmoke73 Level 1

            Thanks, you´re right, that would be the easiest way. BUT: I can not know who´ll use that paragraph style and if this somebody knows how to do that.

            • 3. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
              Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

              IF [… and I say IF!]  you only have "tab" or specific syntaxes on the 3rd paras group, it becomes easy to format all paras in one click!

               

              Show us a screenshot with invisible chars! Thanks!

               

              (^/)

              • 4. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                cmoke73 Level 1

                The width of the text-box has to stay variable: from 50mm to 75mm in 5er steps. There is a tab at 30mm (colours and other informations) and then the others 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75.

                 

                screenshot 1.JPG

                 

                As you see,  the last paragraph is not so perfect.

                • 5. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                  Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                  Are the text frames all threaded or totally independent?

                   

                  (^/)

                  • 6. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                    Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Hi Obi-wan,
                    they are independent.

                    One can see the "End of Story" marker in every text frame, the # sign.

                     

                    Best,
                    Uwe

                    • 7. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                      Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                      Hi Uwe,

                       

                      I saw that of course in the screenshot but it's a sample! 

                       

                      My question is about how the text is placed/imported in each frame!

                       

                      (^/)

                      • 8. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                        cmoke73 Level 1

                        Hi Obi-wab. The text will be written or completed manually. And, because I don´t know who will work on it, the styles must be as easy as possible to use.

                        • 9. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                          Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Hm, I think you have only one chance:
                          To instruct the editor that all the "Artikelnummer" lines should be separated with an end-of-line marker instead of a paragraph sign. And only the last line of the "Artikelnummern" should be done with a paragraph sign.

                           

                          To allow for 5 mm steps for changing the width of the text frame, you could implement columns to the text frame with a fixed width of 5 mm and set all the used paragraph styles to span to 15 columns (your maximum width is 15 x 5 = 75 mm).

                           

                          Feed all that to an object style for a sample text frame.

                           

                          You cannot prevent the user to change the width of the text frame to less than 55 mm, but you can prevent the text running wider than 75 mm, even if the user is changing the text frame's width to more than 75 mm.

                           

                          Regards,
                          Uwe

                          • 10. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                            Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                            Uwe,

                             

                            I really don't understand what you mean! 

                             

                            Our friend would like to style all the paras of each module!

                             

                            All the text could be "correctly" typed without style! …

                            He could style all the doc simply with Grep in one click [4 regex, written in 3 minutes!]

                             

                            Capture d’écran 2016-10-13 à 20.44.20.png

                             

                            Capture d’écran 2016-10-13 à 20.44.44.png

                             

                            (^/)

                            • 11. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                              cmoke73 Level 1

                              Hi Uwe.

                              Of course, it would be easier for me. But the catalogue has more than 300 pages and about 12 chapters. At each chapter are working 2 or more editors. And they change after a while. It would be not that easy as you think to instruct all of them.

                              It is not allowed to make the boxes smaller than 50mm or wider than 75mm. These are some of the few rules they HAVE to know.

                              • 12. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                cmoke73 Level 1

                                Hey Obi-wan.

                                Your reducated exemple is very clear. Exactly that´s what I would like to do. But I have no idea how...

                                Unfortunately, you do not have the option to assign paragraph styles in the paragraph styles using GREP. Only character styles.

                                • 13. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                  Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                                  It's not really the matter!

                                   

                                  What you want is apply 4 para styles! So I did it!

                                   

                                  If you give us the name of the 4 para styles, i could write for you a simple script (based on the 4 regex):

                                  Type your text. When done, just one click to trigger the script and it's OK!

                                   

                                  (^/)

                                  • 14. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                    Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Hi cmoke73,

                                     

                                    tell us more about your workflow. Is the work done inhouse? Have you access to the installed InDesign?

                                    Do the editors make layout decisions—perhaps changing the width of a text frame—after the text is formatted?

                                     

                                    Did you consider using scripts to enforce rules like: particular text frames with a particular document should not be smaller than 50 mm or wider than 75 mm? Did you consider using a script that could preflight and correct formatting if necessary?

                                     

                                    The same goes with forced formatting. Editors can overrule formatting very easily, if they want to.
                                    And instead of paragraph signs they also could use forced line breaks out of the blue and all the automatic formatting will not work ;-)

                                     

                                    One can script an event listening mechanism, that constantly is looking what the editors are doing and formatting the text or change the formatting, if someone is formatting against the rules. But to make that work, the typed in contents must be identified by a script. With your paragraphs of "Artikelnummern", that could be done.


                                    What's not clear at all—you didn't answer Obi-wan's question—is, if a single unit, the discription of a product, is always tied to a single text frame or not. Obi-wan presented a solution with text formatting by GREP Find/Replace, not by GREP Styles, I think. At least I am interpreting his words in that direction. It will work on some assumptions of the structure and the contents of the text. If your particular text will and can always meet those criteria is unclear.

                                     

                                    I'd rather invest in time educating the editors using paragraph styles and some formatting rules than investing time for half automated solutions.

                                     

                                    A start would be always to view hidden characters. To make the distinction between a forced line break and a paragraph sign more visible. And I would avoid empty paragraphs like the one that is showing in one of your screenshots before the last paragraph. Instead use a space above.

                                     

                                    Regards,
                                    Uwe

                                    • 15. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                      cmoke73 Level 1

                                      Hi Uwe.

                                       

                                      short but informative:

                                      Is the work done inhouse? yes

                                      Have you access to the installed InDesign? no

                                      Do the editors make layout decisions—perhaps changing the width of a text frame—after the text is formatted? yes, it is allowed

                                      Did you consider using scripts...? no, I am not familiar with it. And it is not easy to get an permission for using scripts.

                                       

                                      1. The company is not big enough, the structures are not that clear, to educate editors: no time, no money. It has to work in the easiest way.

                                      2. The company ist not small enough to make local decisions. The mother-company makes the rules.

                                      3. I am not a script-crack. I´m going to make a self-education, but it last longer...

                                       

                                      ... if a single unit, the discription of a product, is always tied to a single text frame or not. It has to be allways only one frame, not linked with an other.

                                      A start would be always to view hidden characters... See abowe: #4

                                      ... Instead use a space above. that is what I want to do. In my exemple it is not included, yet

                                       

                                      Regards

                                      Andreas

                                      • 16. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                        cmoke73 Level 1

                                         

                                        very nice proposal! But I have to understand every step of that script!

                                         

                                        The names of the paragraph-styles are:

                                        SF_Artikel_Überschrift

                                        SF_Artikel_Text_1

                                        SF_Artikel_Text_2_Artikel

                                        SF_Artikel_Text_3

                                         

                                        Thank you, in advance

                                        Andreas

                                        • 17. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                          Obi-wan Kenobi Adobe Community Professional

                                          Andreas,

                                           

                                          It's a very basic script! It works as this:

                                           

                                          It creates a condition (invisible for the users).

                                          It  applies "SF_Artikel_Text_2_Artikel" (+ condition) para style to all text (without condition).

                                          Then it searches the first para of each module and applies "SF_Artikel_Überschrift" para style.

                                          Then it searches the second para of each module and applies "SF_Artikel_Text_1" para style.

                                          Finally it searches the last para of each module and applies "SF_Artikel_Text_3" para style.

                                           

                                          No need for nobody to apply styles! The script will do it for you! 

                                          If not sure that all modules have been treated, launch the script again: it will treat only the modules not styled!  Cool! 

                                           

                                          If other text in your doc, you could create the module with an object style: the script will only treat text frames with this style!

                                           

                                          Last thing: You could use a specific second tab (~y) to align your "SF_Artikel_Text_2_Artikel" paras on the right.

                                          [normal tab replaced by the script // 5th step of the script]

                                           

                                          (^/)

                                          • 19. Re: Absatzformat->nächstes Format - flexibel
                                            cmoke73 Level 1

                                            After a crash-course in javascript I solved my problem by myself...