20 Replies Latest reply on Oct 17, 2016 11:04 AM by rob day

    Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)

    Under S. Level 1

      Apologies for the eye rolling this is likely to generate, but I designed an entire magazine prototype in Photoshop (it started as a much, much smaller project, honest) and someone recommended I redo it in InDesign even if -- despite using Adobe products forever -- that's the one program I've never had to use before.

       

      "It's crazy to export a PDF from a 32-page PSD file, use ID if only for the page numbering and document exporting options!"

       

      Meh, we only live once I figured the worst case scenario would be placing all 32 pages as static hi-res images. While in the best case, I'd have the text in its own editable layers as well.

       

      Preparing the document was easy enough; I even set up a nice grid for myself. Margins, bleeds, everything set to what I need. Placing the background image on the cover went smoothly, everything snaps right where it should, you can almost feel the symbiosis between the two programs...

       

      ...until I tried moving shape and text layers. Unlike the AI+PS relationship, drag+drop doesn't seem to work here.

       

      So my question is, what is the easiest way to transfer a layer of editable text from PS to ID? Either with or without the FX placed on that layer (drop shadow, bevel, etc.) as some of those title layers are FX'd up to the nines (let's pretend that expression works in this context).

        • 1. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
          Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

          You can save the Photoshop file as PDF or PDP and place it in InDesign, but it will not be editable.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
            Under S. Level 1

            I will assume by your answer that the only way out of this is retyping all the text in InDesign, a consequence I was prepared for. However, what do I do with my article titles? A lot of them have drop shadows, gradients, etc. can those PS FX be ported over to the new text layer in ID (retaining their editability)?

             

            Or am I stuck turning all my titles into flat pixel images, and placing them as images above my text?

            • 3. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
              Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

              Save them as PDF/PDP. So you can at least avoid rasterizing them. /// I mean rasterizing their shapes. The gradients and other items are rasterized of course.

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              • 4. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                A lot of them have drop shadows, gradients, etc. can those PS FX be ported over to the new text layer in ID (retaining their editability)?

                If the Photoshop transparency effects will interact with InDesign objects, you have to watchout for blending modes. An object with a dropshadow set to multiply will not work as expected. The transparency will be honored, but the multiply will not.

                 

                Here a PS CMYK green circle and black only shadow set to multiply over a magenta fill in InDesign.

                 

                Screen Shot 2016-10-14 at 10.03.56 AM.png

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                • 5. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                  Under S. Level 1

                  Let me ask this in a different way...

                   

                  Let's say I have a logo in Photoshop that I want to use in the magazine. The logo is made up of a few vector shapes (4 or 5) in a folder layer within PS CC2015. How do I then bring that logo into InDesign without rasterizing it?

                   

                  I'm assuming that if I were able to do that, I would also be able to move the vector nodes and change the shape of the logo after it's been imported in InDesign. But I'm not even sure InDesign can handle vector at this point. I'm getting the sense that everything that isn't created in InDesign will be rasterized. That can't be right. But when I save a Photoshop PSD containing nothing but the logo folder (zero pixel information, all vector) and place it in InDesign, I get the impression that the whole thing was rasterized and flattered when I placed it. I haven't tried saving it as PDF instead, and placing THAT in InDesign. Would the results vary if I did?

                   

                  In the end, is my approach to InDesign all wrong? Maybe I just need to stop trying to use it in layers and just flatten everything that isn't column text and just place it in the background as pixels (including magazine cover logo, bar code, everything).

                   

                  It would break my heart as someone used to doing everything in PS (and therefore, maintaining 'editability' in all vector or pixel layers from beginning to end) but I'd rather work with the program than against it.

                  • 6. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                    Willi Adelberger Most Valuable Participant

                    Open the psd with the logo in Illustrator, keep layers alive and objects editable, save as ai or pdf/x-4 and place that in InDesign

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                    • 7. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      It would break my heart as someone used to doing everything in PS (and therefore, maintaining 'editability' in all vector or pixel layers from beginning to end) but I'd rather work with the program than against it.

                      Photoshop simply isn't designed for page layout—it's typesetting capabilities are crude relative to ID's. It forces you into a single color mode. There's no pagination, masters, facing pages, bleed & slug settings, etc. You can simulate page layout in PS, and you can do some primitive image manipulating in ID, but that doesn't mean you want to use ID as an image editor or Photoshop for page layout.

                      • 8. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                        BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                        Welcome back, unders11! I remember you from your question in the Photoshop forum early this summer (because not many people choose to lay out a magazine in Photoshop)! So you decided to move it to InDesign... that's great, but it sounds like you didn't get any sort of training yet? That's still my best advice 3 months later!

                         

                        So, in the meantime, what happens when you add the vector logo the the CC Library on the way to InDesign? Or since you seem familiar with the Photoshop/Illustrator workflow, move it to Illustrator and add it to the CC Library in Illustrator? Or recreate it in Illustrator, and add it to the CC Library? Once in the Library, you can drag it into InDesign. CC Libraries are a great way to move elements from one app to another.

                         

                        As for the text, I would a.) make sure you are using styles in Photoshop, b.) add the styles to the CC Library, c.) copy the text from Ps and paste it in InDesign, d.) use the waiting style to format it in InDesign.

                        • 9. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                          jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                          If you have a Path, by the way, you cannot copy and paste it directly into InDesign, by the way. Here's what you do.

                           

                          1. Copy it in PS

                          2. Paste to Illustrator. It will have no fill or stroke. Give it a fill and stroke, i.e., type "D"

                          3. Copy from Illustrator

                          4. Paste to InDesign

                           

                          Text can be selected with your Type tool and pasted into InDesign.

                           

                          Don't copy and paste images. Save them out and Place them properly.

                          • 10. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                            Under S. Level 1

                            I just tried going through the CC Library, by placing the logo there from Photoshop and picking it up in InDesign... but it goes through the cloud first. Meaning it uploads the whole logo to the cloud, then each application downloads it as it sees fit.

                             

                            What an incredible waste of bandwidth, couldn't all of that be done locally without going through Big Brother? The cloud is just another word for someone else's computer. All of this makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

                            • 11. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                              BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                              CC Libraries offer storage that is attached to your Adobe ID. You can log into any computer with your ID and have access to your assets. To accomplish this, yes, the assets are uploaded to a shared server. I'm a fan of the CC Libraries, as are many of my students, because we can share our assets with other applications and with  other people. Of course, that doesn't mean you need to be.

                               

                              You are in a very unusual situation, having designed a magazine in an application designed for photo editing. You've been offered a few other ideas that can avoid Libraries—but no matter what you pick, rest assured you have a fair amount of work ahead of you, the hardest being learning InDesign on the go while under what appears to be a tight deadline.

                               

                              Let us know if we can offer any additional tips.

                              • 12. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                Under S. Level 1

                                Not only that, but I just realized that doing it that way (CC Library) produces the exact same type of smart layer once opened in InDesign that I would have gotten had I simply placed it from a PSD file (without going through Big Brother In The Cloud). I thought it would at least allow me to edit the nodes like I would in AI or PS.

                                 

                                Now that I understand that ID essentially just turns anything imported into a smart layer (so it can remain another application's problem come edit time) I'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of just publishing this thing as flat placed images (from saved PNGs), and use InDesign solely for the binding.

                                 

                                No offense to Adobe, but this could have been integrated together so much more easily. I see no reason why dragging a text layer from PS to ID wouldn't just work, and retain all of its important properties (font name, size, line height, and even basic live fx).

                                 

                                Maybe someday.

                                • 13. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                  BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                                  Maybe! I'm glad you are feeling like you can do this. I wish you the best.

                                  • 14. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    I see no reason why dragging a text layer from PS to ID wouldn't just work, and retain all of its important properties (font name, size, line height, and even basic live fx)

                                    The typesetting capabilities of the two apps are radically different. Compare the Paragraph and Character Style features—Photoshop has some light weight typesetting tools, but it's not designed for magazine layout.

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2016-10-17 at 10.23.16 AM.png

                                    • 15. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      I'm a lot more comfortable with the idea of just publishing this thing as flat placed images (from saved PNGs), and use InDesign solely for the binding.

                                      PNGs will surely create resolution and color compromises with high-end printing. Any text will be bitmapped, so to render small text accurately the res would need to be 1000ppi+. PNGs can't be CMYK so black only text will separate as 4-color creating a registration problem.

                                      • 16. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                        Under S. Level 1

                                        Why is everyone referring to CMYK so much? I haven't. In fact, I'm not even 100% sure how this project will be distributed yet, print is only one option. What would be so wrong with remaining RGB the whole time, I wonder? I'm assuming ID doesn't force CMYK on us, and images can all be converted to CMYK should the need arise down the line.

                                         

                                        We are here today because a magazine I designed in Photoshop needs to be binded for PDF distribution (maybe a print vers. down the line, but that's way down the line). For the nonce, the need was a simple way to page number and bind the PDF. I was told to transfer everything to ID. From there, I can choose to go as deep with the exploring as I want -- by either recreating everything layer by layer, or just using ID for the PDF binding options after importing 32 full-page 600dpi PNGs (last case scenario).

                                         

                                        Even if we want to keep the print option for down the line, today's printers can print pretty much anything if it has the number of colors and resolution. The tones might be off a bit but that's not a huge issue here. In this context, does it make sense to break our backs making everything CMYK?

                                        • 17. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                          jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                          unders11 wrote:

                                           

                                          Why is everyone referring to CMYK so much? ...

                                          Even if we want to keep the print option for down the line, today's printers can print pretty much anything if it has the number of colors and resolution. The tones might be off a bit but that's not a huge issue here. In this context, does it make sense to break our backs making everything CMYK?

                                          The correct answer, of course, is to check with your printer and ask color questions there. There are many variables, and we can only give general best practices information.

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                                          • 18. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Why is everyone referring to CMYK so much?

                                             

                                            Most all printing processes use some variation of CMYK or spot color inks, so any black text that starts as RGB will have to be converted to CMYK somewhere in the print production process. The conversion of RGB black (0|0|0) to CMYK almost always creates a mix of 4-colors, which in any printing process that uses plates will create registration problems.

                                             

                                            Black only CMYK (0|0|0|100) wouldn't have problems in either a composite or offset printing process, or a PDF for screen display. And an InDesign layout can handle a mix of CMYK, RGB, Lab, Grayscale, and spot color objects. The default black swatch in InDesign is 0|0|0|100 CMYK, which can be used for black text, and you can place RGB images and that lets you convert them correctly depending on the destination. Photoshop forces you into a single color mode which is fine for image editing, but terrible for page layout.

                                             

                                            or just using ID for the PDF binding options after importing 32 full-page 600dpi PNGs (last case scenario).

                                             

                                            You will eventually run into problems by effectively "RIPing" the pages like this. Corrections will be time consuming. The PDFs are going to be bloated because of the extra resolution that is only needed for the text in the PNGs. When you make the PDFs you will have to turn off compression and downsampling otherwise the text will again be compromised.

                                            • 19. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                              Under S. Level 1

                                              Good to know RGB is still something ID can handle.

                                               

                                              Actually, there is a lot of valuable information in this thread, I will certainly be coming back to it a few times before I've absorbed it all. However, we are kind of getting away from the initial issue and the best way to solve it, and that is my fault for not being clearer with my needs. I'm going to gather what I've learned so far to ask a more streamlined question in a new thread. Thanks!

                                              • 20. Re: Transfering vector layers (PS veteran rush-migrating a project to ID)
                                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                I haven't carefully read all of the responses, but where did the rasterizing to PNG idea come from? Why not just save PDF copies of the Photoshop pages as PDF/X-4 and place those in InDesign (Willi's #3). That wouldn't solve the black color issues, but it would keep text as vectors.