it might be easier to keep it together and sell as a complete pc. if you want to scrap parts, you could keep the case and video card. i would replace the psu, just to have a new one with a fresh start on its lifespan going into a new build.
if you plan on keeping the system for a few years and limiting overclocking to medium or low, then the d15s is a better option than liquid. when liquid fails it will cost more to replace than just a fan on air coolers.
i would opt for win10 as its supposedly better under-the-hood, but there are more steps to optimizing win10 for performance as microsoft has added more spyware and tracking features in win10. microsoft also re-enables them after updates, making for even more work. microsoft has focused on casual users on pc's, tablets, and phones as the windows app store is very profitable for microsoft and therefore have made win10 less friendly for professional use.
depending on the media and timelines, sata ssd may be fine. if you just want the fastest so you don't have to worry about any limitations now or later, the pcie ssd will do that. samsung should be releasing the 960 evo and pro soon, up to 2tb size for the pro.
if you aren't planning on loading up on pcie cards, the 28 lane i7-6800k is a good option to save money. picking features like thunderbolt add-in-card support or m.2 support and cpu pcie lane splitting are some things to consider when choosing an x99 motherboard. there are lots of build threads here on 6800k and others if you want to read them too.
Hi RoninEdits. Thanks for responding and sharing your thoughts.
Yes, getting a new PSU would make a lot of sense. If I do look at replacing everything, case, PSU, etc then I'll need to work out how much I might be able to get for the old system so I know how much I'll be able to put towards the new components.
Even though I've had systems in the past that could be overclocked, I never have. I guess it's always been a bit of a dark art, although it's possible that BIOS and software advances has made it easier now. I also wanted to keep the system quite so didn't want to generate more heat that would need to be cooled. That being the case, I think a big heatsink and fans is the way to go for me.
OK, Win 10 it is. Although I've never been that good at optimising the OS. I'm afraid that I use it for more than just video editing so I may not be able to optimise 100%, Although I'm sure there will be things I can turn off or disable which will make a difference.
As I'm building a completely new system it seems to me to be a good idea to take advantage of the new technologies. So as long as I can get everything in budget I would like to use M.2 storage.
Thanks, I'll do some more research on X99 motherboards and report back.
For a new x99 build, I'd offer that the Asus X99 Deluxe II would be an excellent way to go.
to confirm RoninEdits comment on PCI lanes I have an X99-E (with i7-5960) build with a Titan X. I had a quadro 4000 + Tesla C2075 card + M.2 SSD + tbolt add-on card (connect to a cineraid 8 bay/raid 5 tower) but the board does not have enough lanes to support all of these components.
I ended up removing the Qaudro and Tesla cards.
Apologies for taking so long to return to this thread. I've been trying to earn some money to pay for all the upgrades. :-)
After more reading and some further thought, I have come up with a parts list for a new build. I had considered using components from my current machine, however it seems best to start again. That has the added bonus of being able to build the new PC while still being able to use the old one.
I am mainly looking for a system which will enable me to play (and scrub) a timeline with 4K footage (scaled to 1080p) which has titles and effects (i.e. colour correction and Magic Bullet Looks), without having to render the timeline first. Any additional speed of exporting the timeline would be a bonus. As mentioned before, After Effects and other digital media tasks will also be undertaken.
I would appreciate your collective wisdom as to whether the components listed below would be suitable.
Asus X99-A II, Intel X99, S 2011-3, DDR4, SATAe, U.2, M.2 (PCIe), 3-Way SLi/CrossFire, Intel GbE LAN, USB 3.1 A+C, ATX
Intel Core i7 6800K, S 2011-3, Broadwell-E, Six Core, 12 Thread, 3.4GHz Clock, 3.8GHz Turbo, 15MB, 28 Lane, 140W, Retail
Noctua NH-D15S Dual Radiator Quiet CPU Cooler, for Intel/AMD
32GB (4x8GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black PC4-24000 (3000), Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 15-17-17-35, XMP 2.0, 1.35V
1000W Corsair RM1000x Series, 80 PLUS Gold, Full Modular, SLI/CrossFire, Single Rail, 83.3A +12V, 1x135mm Fan, ATX PSU
Nanoxia Deep Silence 5 Black Silent Full Tower Performance Case w/o PSU
Asus GeForce GTX 1080 ROG STRIX GAMING 8GB GDDR5X VR Ready Graphics Card, 2560 Core, 1607MHz GPU, 1733MHz Boost, RGB LED
System - OS, Programs
250GB Samsung 750 EVO, 2.5" SSD, SATA III - 6Gb/s, Samsung MGX, 256MB Cache, Read 540MB/s, Write 520MB/s, 97K/88K IOPS
Video Projects - Rushes, Projects,
Media Cache, Preview Files, Exports
Files and Other Media
4TB WD WD4004FZWX WD Black 4TB, 3.5" HDD, SATA III - 6Gb/s, 7200rpm, 128MB Cache, OEM
Superior Gold Contact, Linear Action Keyboard, Black, MX Black Mechanical Key Switch
Logitech Hyperion Fury G402 FPS Gaming Mouse 4000dpi 500 IPS 8 Programmable Buttons Full Speed USB 32 Bit ARM Processor
Additional case fan(s)
140mm Noctua NF-A15 PWM Round Frame Premium PWM Fan
All items priced on scan.co.uk, except the keyboard.
STORAGE: Video Projects, Rushes, Assets
This is where I am still somewhat in a dilemma. I feel that I need to get some of the superfast SSD M.2 memory, however which one. Here are some of the choices:
512GB Samsung 950 PRO, M.2 (22x80) PCIe 3.0 (x4) NVMe 1.1 SSD, UBX, 3D V-NAND, Read 2500MB/s, Write 1500MB/s, 300k IOPS
500GB Samsung 960 Evo, V-NAND, M.2 PCIe Gen 3.0 x4, NVMe 1.1, 3200MB/s Read, 1800MB/s Write, 330K/330K IOPS
512GB Samsung 960 Pro, M.2 PCIe NVMe, Polaris Controller, 3500MB/s Read, 2100MB/s, 330K/330K IOPS, 400TBW, Retail
I imagine that the 512GB 960 Pro is the way to go, so I hope it's in-stock soon. I'd love a 1TB drive however the additional cost will just be too much at this stage. I would plan to transfer active projects to the Video Projects drive and then archive when complete.
As noted in the original post, I've got a 120GB Samsung EVO 840 SSD for Premiere Media Cache files, Preview Files, etc. Would this still be okay? When I re-configure my current PC for sale, I will also have a 250GB Samsung EVO 840 SSD that I could use in the new build.
I normally use this drive as the export destination and then move to the video projects folder when complete. However given the speed of the main M.2 video projects drive, would this workflow still be beneficial?
What am I missing? What else do I need to consider?
I enjoy the process of specing and building a new PC, however it's not easy. There are so many choices, so many different paths to take. It's great knowing that the community is willing to share their experience and expertise. Many thanks.
most people would pair a gtx 1060 6gb with the 6 core intel cpu. if you are using alot of gpu fx, like the magic bullet looks etc, then perhaps a faster video card would help. if you aren't sure about needing the gtx 1080, you might look at the gtx 1070...
for storage, re-using a sata ssd for the new computer's os/apps drive would be good to save money. then using a 960 evo 512gb or 1tb for the projects/cache/media drive.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts RoninEdits.
I feel that my budget can push to get at least the GTX 1070. Perhaps the extra £200 for the GTX 1080 would be worth it as I believe that with PC's you're always best to get the best components you can afford at the time of purchase. I'd also like to get into VR things, so the extra processing power of the 1080 could prove useful.
Good idea to save money by re-using the SSD from my current system. However that would stop me from running both systems while I get the new one set-up.
I'm getting closer to my final spec, however I was wondering if anyone could offer suggestions as to the best M.2 memory to go for. As there is only one M.2 slot on the motherboard I have on my list, I think I'd be better getting a 1TB drive instead of a 512GB. However there are several options:
1TB ScanFX M.2 (22x80) PCIe 3.0 (x4) NVMe SSD, Polaris, Read 3000MB/s, Write 1150MB/s, 360k/280k IOPS, OEM
£320 (inc VAT)
1TB ScanFX NVMe, MLC V-NAND, M.2 SSD PCIe 3.0 x4, 80mm, Read 3200 MB/sec, Write 1800 MB/sec, 450k/400k IOPS
£432 (inc VAT)
1TB Samsung 960 Evo, V-NAND, M.2 PCIe Gen 3.0 x4, NVMe 1.1, 3200MB/s Read, 1900MB/s Write, 380K/360K IOPS
£470 (inc VAT)
1TB Samsung 960 Pro, M.2 PCIe NVMe, Polaris Controller, 3500MB/s Read, 2100MB/s, 440K/360K IOPS, 800TBW, Retail
£638 (inc VAT)
I've got to imagine that the most expensive is best, however I'm more likely to buy one of the middle ones.
Your thoughts on what to look out for would be very much appreciated.
Should I be concerned about the warranties offered on these fast SSD's?
The Samsung EVO range seem to be 3 years and the Pro range 5 years.
different models use different memory, tlc vs mlc, so some will have longer lifespans and larger endurance TB's covered in warranty. larger capacity drives should also have larger endurance ratings within the same model lineup. the 1tb 960 evo has 400tb endurance vs 800tb endurance on the 1tb 960 pro. you would have to try and figure out how much you may actually write to the drive to decide if the larger endurance rating will pay off vs just replacing the drive with something newer in a few years.
the two 1TB ScanFX drives are oem samsung pm961 and sm961 ssd's. i think the sm961 at £432 should be worth the extra cost for its higher endurance and performance. i'm not sure what kind of endurance warranty scan.co.uk would have for that drive though...
Thanks for the info RoninEdits, as well as the heads-up about the warranty.
I spoke to Scan today and they confirmed that there is a 3 year warranty on the PM961. The 1st year is with Scan and the remainder is with Samsung. If I wanted 5 years then I'd need to spring for the Samsung 960 Pro.
Sadly the 1TB ScanFX SSD (SM961) is now out of stock. :-(
Having done some more research on the motherboard I've picked out, the Asus Intel X99-A 2 Extreme Quad Channel, I have a couple of questions about the SSD connections.
Max Speed (Gbps)
x4 (+2 as MB headers)
Type A x1
Type C x1
External drive, i.e. back-ups
Internal SSD for OS, programs, etc.
(compatible with 2x SATA 6Gbps)
Internal SSD for video and media files
I imagine that the M.2 interface is the one I should be using. I was initially disappointed to discover that there is only one M.2 connector. However it looks like the U.2 interface is also fast, so I could expand my storage using that in the future.
Can I forget using the SATA Express interface?
The max speeds were taken from the motherboard marketing material so I don't know how accurate they will be.
yes, you can forget about sata express, it was never really adopted. the market kinda skipped right from sata m.2 to pcie ssd. u.2 is just like m.2 interface, so its a good interface, but there are very limited u.2 drives available. all of the ssd vendors seem to be pushing m.2 (that was designed for laptops) as its more convenient for them to mfg one drive that is now getting adopted into desktop systems. the current intel u.2 drives aren't as good as the samsung drives, so its better to use a pcie m.2 x4 adapter to hold a second m.2 drive rather than use an intel u.2 drive.
the asus x99-a II motherboard manual states that the m.2 and u.2 drive share bandwidth (pcie lanes) so only one connection/interface can be active. again, since there aren't any good u.2 drives its not a big deal as you would be better off with a pcie x4 m.2 adapter.
the motherboard and cpu you are getting only have 28 lanes, that can run/split to x16/x8/x4(m.2) or x8/x8/x8/x4(m.2). so you will have room to add one or two more pcie cards. running the video card at x8 instead of x16 may reduce its performance a few %, but if the gpu isn't maxed out it may not impact performance at all. the pcie lanes and m.2/u.2 stuff is all in the manual. it would cost alot more to jump up to the i7-6850k and a deluxe motherboard to get full usage of 40 lanes...
Thanks RoninEdits for taking the time to reply and for the further info. I would have replied sooner, however I’m not getting any notifications when there is a new reply.
If I understand you correctly then if I wanted to add more M.2 storage then I'd buy an adapter card that goes in one of the PCI slots (where a graphics/expansion card would normally go) and forget the U.2 interface altogether. Sounds like a good solution, especially when the M.2 and U.2 interfaces share lanes.
I hadn't really paid much attention to lanes before now, however as things are speeding up and needing access to more bandwidth it is becoming much more important.
I have been playing around with what's in my virtual basket and had actually swapped the i7 6800K processor for the i7 6850K, which does have 40 lanes. I've checked the Asus X99-A motherboard and it does report "40/28 PCI Express 3.0/2.0 lanes." I did look at the Deluxe version of the motherboard, however there are things on it that I didn't think I'd need, so didn't want to pay extra for it. i.e. WiFi, additional network port, RAID, 2 additional USB 3.1 ports, Bluetooth.
Perhaps there is something I'm missing. Would the Deluxe model be worth the extra £107?
Here is my updated spec:
Item Description Vendor Ex VAT Motherboard Asus X99-A II, Intel X99, S 2011-3, DDR4, SATAe, U.2, M.2 (PCIe), 3-Way SLi/CrossFire, Intel GbE LAN, USB 3.1 A+C, ATX Scan £ 224.99 Processor Intel Core i7 6850K, S 2011-3, Broadwell-E, 6 Core, 12 Thread, 3.6GHz Clock, 4GHz Turbo, 15MB, 40 Lane, 140W, Retail Scan £ 449.57 Cooler Noctua NH-D15S Dual Radiator Quiet CPU Cooler, for Intel/AMD Scan £ 57.91 Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black PC4-24000 (3000), Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 15-17-17-35, XMP 2.0, 1.35V Scan £ 167.91 Power Supply 1000W Corsair RM1000x Series, 80 PLUS Gold, Full Modular, SLI/CrossFire, Single Rail, 83.3A +12V, 1x135mm Fan, ATX PSU Scan £ 137.49 Case Nanoxia Deep Silence 5 Black Silent Full Tower Performance Case w/o PSU Scan £ 114.16 Graphics Card Innovision 3D GeForce GTX 1070 iChiLL X4 8GB GDDR5 VR Ready Graphics Card, 1920 Core, 1620MHz GPU, 1822MHz Boost Scan £ 374.99 System - OS, Programs 256GB Samsung 850 PRO, 2.5" SSD, SATA III 6Gb/s, MEX, 3D V-NAND, Read 550MB/s, Write 520MB/s, 100k/90k IOPS Scan £ 102.49 Video Projects - Rushes, Projects, Assets 1TB Samsung Polaris SM961 NVMe, MLC, M.2 SSD PCIe 3.0 x4, 80mm, Read 3200 MB/sec, Write 1800 MB/sec, 450k/400k IOPS Scan £ 359.99 Keyboard Superior Gold Contact, Linear Action Keyboard, Black, MX Black Mechanical Key Switch keyboardco.com £ 59.00 Mouse Gigabyte M6880X Gaming Mice, USB Wired, with Laser Sensor, 100g Weight, & 800/1200/1600 3-Stage On-the-fly DPI Switching Scan £ 12.07 Additional case fan(s) 2 x 140mm Nanoxia Deep Silence PWM Ultra-Quiet PC Fan, 700-1400 RPM Scan £ 18.32 Optical Drive LiteOn IHAS124-14 24x DVD±R, 8x DVD±DL, DVD+RW x8/-RW x6, DVD-RAM x12, SATA, Black, OEM Scan £ 9.57 TOTAL £ 2,088.46
In another post someone had pointed out that it's not just about the graphics card chip and CUDA cores. You also need to pay attention to the specs of the individual cards and in particular the memory spec. I therefore did some more research on the cards that were in my budget and created this table:
Mem Clock (OC)
Core Clock (OC)
Boost Clock (OC)
ASUS GTX 1070
EVGA GTX 1070
Inno3D GTX 1070
Inno3D GTX 1070
Gigabyte GTX 1070
I have therefore changed my selection from the Asus GTX 1070 to the Innovision 3D GeForce GTX 1070 iChiLL X4. The one with 3 fans might also be fine.
The increase in memory speed of that card would seem to be a good thing. Am I correct? Anything else to consider?
On the GPU's it is very simple and safe to increase the Memory Clock on most units. For CUDA processing which is what Adobe uses the one simple adjustment of increasing the Memory Clock does wonders for increasing performance. I have a GTX 1060 SC from EVGA that would be rated 7600 MHz but with that adjustment slightly tweaked it is now running at 9600 MHz. Actually I have two EVGA 06G-P4-6163-KR cards and both work well. I have a Premiere Pro benchmark test that uses lots of CUDA GPU power. Turning off the GPU acceleration and using CPU only my computer runs the benchmark in 250 seconds. When I turn the GPU acceleration back on at the 7600 MHz speed it takes 23 seconds, at 9600 MHz it drops to 19 seconds, and with two overclocked GTX 1060 SC GPU's it drops to 11 seconds. Now do not jump to conclusions because rarely would you ever have that much GPU accelerated effects and features that we crammed into that test case. Needless to say I am sold on the GTX 1060 SC product. Of course for dual usage it does require more PCIe lanes and slots. Even at the stock speed of my GTX 1060 SC it is faster than my GTX 970
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the difference with a 40 lane cpu between the different motherboards is how they can split/assign the pcie lanes to each slot. the x99-a II can split 40 lanes to x8/--/x16/x8/m.2, while the asus deluxe and deluxe II can split further to allow more cards at x8 and some at x4. it mostly comes down to having an idea of what you might be adding in the future, like a second gpu at x16 or x8 vs other add-in-cards at x8 or x4 etc. the asus deluxe and deluxe II split lanes different from each other as well, so you would have to look at 3 manuals to compare the differences.
when the gtx 1070 first came out, all of the video cards were built with samsung ram and all were able to change the memory to 8200. at some point later several manufactures switched to micron memory which wasn't stable past 8000. if the inno3D cards are factory overclocked with memory at 8200, its likely to be samsung memory. any new card with stock memory 8000 could be either brand of memory, so no guarantee of the overclock. how helpful the memory overclock will be is going to depend on how much premiere is actually using the video card. if you build the new system and temporarily place your gtx 970 in it, then watch its performance/usage with gpu-z, you may get an idea of how powerful of a gpu you need.
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every bench I have ever seen for 8x vs 16x graphics card is ~1% improvement. if that's worth it upgrading to 40 lanes cpu just for dual gpu's, more power to you.
4k editing requires a 8 core Intel Core i7 6900X. 6 core is for 1080p editing. it just won't be powerful enough, sorry.
besides, you can get PCIe to PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2 Adapters for super cheap instead of upgrading a whole motherboard. I don't know why no one talks about this
the puget systems article you link to shows over 10% difference for x8 vs x16 in some of the benchmarks, including some of the davinci resolve results. i think for medium speed gpu's around the gtx 1060 and lower, the penalty at x8 would be negligible.
some are editing 4k on 4 core i7's just fine, it comes down to projects/timeline and media. an 8 core is better for 4k editing but some don't have the budget. the 8 core costs 2.5x more money for around 20-25% more performance, a terrible ratio...
we have talked about the pcie m.2 adapters many times on these forums, including this very thread. as well as scenario's to avoid a motherboard upgrade/replacement for a m.2 drive, as you mention.
Wow, this is really great info! Thanks so much for sharing. Does anyone know if Premiere Pro 2017 can take full advantage of the Pascal architecture in the new GTX 1070 and 1080s? The articles I read revolved around the 2015 versions of Adobe products and it didn't seem like the software and drivers were able to really make use of the powerful hardware at this stage of the game.
Here's one of the articles I read:
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The GTX 10 series of GPU's with Premiere Pro 11 take more advantage of the Pascal architecture.
- My GTX 1060 SC has better GPU acceleration performance than my GTX 970
- My EVGA 06G-P4-6163-KR is less expensive than my ASUS Strix-GTX970-DC20C-4GD5
- The GTX 1060 has 6 GB of video RAM versus only 4 GB for the GTX 970
- The GTX 10 series has overclockable CUDA memory where the GTX 900 series with CUDA applications you cannot increase the Memory Clock speed.
With the earlier talk about PCI lanes and motherboards I though I'd check what the motherboard I had selected was able to offer. Here is what I've been able to work out:
Using 40 Lane CPU
Asus X99-A II
Bandwidth shared with slot 6
Max at x4 mode
Bandwidth shared with slot 1
It all gets quite complicated depending on what you might have plugged in. I also looked at the DELUXE version, however it got confusing so I don't want to risk posting inaccurate data.
As I imagine that I'll only have a graphics card in Slot 1 and my Matrox O2 Mini expansion card (x1) in one of the other slots, the availability of PCI lanes shouldn't be a problem. I do currently have a USB3.0 expansion card, however I shouldn't need that with the new motherboard.
The only future expansion I can think of at the moment might be a PCI Express to M.2 adapter card.
the x99-a II for 3 add-in-cards with 40 lanes can split to x8/--/x16/x8/m.2, or 28 lanes can split to x8/--/x8/x8/m.2. for 2 add-in-cards the 28 lanes can split to x16/--/x8/--/m.2. if you needed to add some pcie x1 cards like a usb or sata card, those can go into the x1 slots or the second x16 size slot, which do not use the cpu pcie lanes. so the x1 cards wouldn't count against the 2 or 3 card configs listed above.
Thanks RoninEdits. I gave it my best shot, however I didn't realise that some of the slots don't use the PCIe lanes.
After all the research and help from the forum, I'm pretty sure that the Asus X99-A II motherboard and 40 lane CPU will be sufficient for my current and medium term needs.
On Monday I planned to place the order for all of the new components. However I was annoyed to discover that the price of the CPU had gone up by £75 since I had checked a few days earlier. I contacted the company I was planning to buy things from and was able to get various discounts and price-matches so that in the end I only paid about £30 more.
Anyway, I now have all the components to build the new PC. For those that are interested, here is the final list:
Item Description Ex VAT Motherboard Asus X99-A II, Intel X99, S 2011-3, DDR4, SATAe, U.2, M.2 (PCIe), 3-Way SLi/CrossFire, Intel GbE LAN, USB 3.1 A+C, ATX £ 224.99 Processor Intel Core i7 6850K, S 2011-3, Broadwell-E, 6 Core, 12 Thread, 3.6GHz Clock, 4GHz Turbo, 15MB, 40 Lane, 140W, Retail £ 499.99 Cooler Noctua NH-D15S Dual Radiator Quiet CPU Cooler, for Intel/AMD £ 57.91 Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black PC4-24000 (3000), Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 15-17-17-35, XMP 2.0, 1.35V £ 167.91 Power Supply 1000W Corsair RM1000x Series, 80 PLUS Gold, Full Modular, SLI/CrossFire, Single Rail, 83.3A +12V, 1x135mm Fan, ATX PSU £ 137.49 Case Nanoxia Deep Silence 5 Black Silent Full Tower Performance Case w/o PSU £ 116.66 Graphics Card Innovision 3D GeForce GTX 1070 iChiLL X4 8GB GDDR5 VR Ready Graphics Card, 1920 Core, 1620MHz GPU, 1822MHz Boost £ 374.99 System - OS, Programs 512GB Samsung 850 PRO, 2.5" SSD, SATA III 6Gb/s, MEX, 3D V-NAND, Read 550MB/s, Write 520MB/s, 100k/90k IOPS £ 182.07 Video Projects - Rushes, Projects, Assets 1TB Samsung Polaris SM961 NVMe, MLC, M.2 SSD PCIe 3.0 x4, 80mm, Read 3200 MB/sec, Write 1800 MB/sec, 450k/400k IOPS £ 329.99 Mouse Gigabyte M6880X Gaming Mice, USB Wired, with Laser Sensor, 100g Weight, & 800/1200/1600 3-Stage On-the-fly DPI Switching £ 12.07 Additional case fan(s) 140mm Aerocool Dead Silence Black Fan Dual Material/Colour FDB Fan 10.8dBA Retail £ 21.64 Optical Drive Asus DRW-24D5MT DVD Re-Writer, x24, SATA, with M-DISC support, Tray Loading, Black OEM £ 9.99
Many thanks to all who shared their thoughts and advice. Build starts at the weekend. :-)
I seem to remember reading a discussion about how you should format SSD's and M.2 drives. If anyone had a link or advice, that would be great. Thanks.