1 2 Previous Next 67 Replies Latest reply on Oct 30, 2016 2:38 PM by Under S.

    So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/

    Under S. Level 1

      As some of you know from past postings, I, um, accidentally created an entire PDF magazine in Photoshop. I'm just so comfortable with the application that before I knew it, what started out as a visual prototype had quickly turned into the real thing; a 32-page 300DPI RGB full-color finished product in a 8GB master PSB file containing 32 folders; each one holding all the pixel, shape and text layers required to produce that page. And while the PS text layers don't use styles, the article titles often use modifiable PS FX (like drop-shadows, gradients, and bevels).

       

      The plan at this point was to :

       

      1. From Photoshop, export each group of layers (one per page) as its own PDF file; which keeps text as text, converts PS FX to pixels, etc.
      2. From Acrobat, import and bind all 32 PDF files into one (again, keeping text and pixel data separate).
      3. Use Acrobat export options to narrow file size to appx. desired target.

       

      So while we're creating the appearance of a digital scan of a print magazine — incl. cover page, back page, occasional double-page spreads, etc. — there is no actual need to go CMYK here (and all the blending complications that come with it) as far as I can see. The launch audience will be 100% digital, and should the need to print eventually arise, I'm hard-pressed to think of any reason why today's printers couldn't print a magazine from a high quality RGB PDF (or why we couldn't convert it at the tail end if all else failed).

       

      As long as the end result is a 32-page PDF file w/ text layers (ie, select/copy-friendly) and I can adjust the image quality on the export (from web all the way up to print), I'm more concerned with the easiest path to get there from that bloated 8GB Photoshop PSB file.

       

      Am I better off A) Exporting a single PDF per page from PS, then individually placing the 32 PDFs into InDesign (at the appropriate page number), and then hope the text is still text in the final export; B) Flatten each page's pixel data into flat PNGs to be linked to via ID placement (one per page) and recreate all the text from scratch via copy/paste and re-styling; or C) Stick with original plan described at the top (which doesn't involve InDesign at all).

       

      Also, do I pick Web or Print as the document's Intent when I'm drawing almost equally from both? I'd like the rulers to be inches because it's a traditional magazine layout, but I don't need anything to be CMYK in this all-digital environment. Am I locked into anything I can't get out of if I start with either?

       

      Hopefully this paints a slightly clearer picture of the situation than my previous ramblings did. =)

        • 1. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Am I better off with

          A

           

          Also, do I pick Web or Print as the document's Intent

           

          It doesn't matter. All the intent does is initially set the rulers units, the transparency blend space, and the swatches' color space, all of which can be changed at anytime after the file has been created.

           

          You definitely want to give up on this workflow for future projects.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
            jane-e Adobe Community Professional

            I vote with Rob for Option A. Don't convert text into pixels. Saving it as a Photoshop PDF keeps it editable.

             

            Create 3-5 "pages" and test it in InDesign.

             

            When you do automatic numbering on the Master Page, it may be below the PDFs on the document pages and therefore not showing. This is fixable if it happens. Move the header/footer info onto a new layer and reorder the layer in your Layers panel. (All of the PDFs will be on the same layer.) Or come back and ask for more details when you get there.

             

            The PDFs will be links in your Links panel. If they get updated (edit in PS > save as new PDF), you will need to update the Link. Try this with your sample small document as well.

             

            And, as BarbBinder said, learn InDesign before the next project! You can take a live class online if there is not one in your area!

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
              Under S. Level 1

              I'm saving these as PDF/X-4 from PSDs with no backgrounds, but once imported in ID they show up with solid white backgrounds. It's not the ID layer box, it's the PDF itself (I've moved it around the box). A am I saving these PDF layers wrong in PS?

               

              EDIT: Why does everything I write have to go through moderation before showing up? Is this what everyone goes through now?

              • 4. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                unders11 wrote:

                I'm saving these as PDF/X-4 from PSDs with no backgrounds, but once imported in ID they show up with solid white backgrounds. …


                Check the PDF import options and see if "Transparent Background" is not enabled.
                Enable "Transparent Background" and place.

                 

                Regards,
                Uwe

                • 5. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                  jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                  unders11 wrote:

                  EDIT: Why does everything I write have to go through moderation before showing up? Is this what everyone goes through now?

                  That happened to me in the beginning. Then it stopped. I think it's because of all the people who try to spam the forums.

                  • 6. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                    Under S. Level 1

                    Check the PDF import options and see if "Transparent Background" is not enabled.

                    Where do I find this option? I went through what I thought was every modifiable option in InDesign for an hour without finding anything that would add or remove white backgrounds from placed PDFs. Should I not have used "place"?

                    • 7. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                      Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                      In the Place dialog, Show Imoport Options. What you choose is sticky until changed.

                      • 8. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                        Under S. Level 1

                        I just realized it's a checkbox in the "Open" dialog of the Place command.

                         

                        I used it. Transparent background was already checked, but I unchecked and re-checked it again.

                         

                        Still getting white backgrounds from the PDF I created in PS from a single-layer vector shape (the magazine logo). Exported as X-4 PDF with all compression off (not that it matters, it's all vector).

                         

                        Is the white BGR hard-saved in the PDF file, or is the ID container putting a white BGR on all placed objects within its box? How do we find out?

                        • 9. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Peter, have you tried this with a Photoshop PDF? Looks to me like it only works with AI.

                          • 10. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                            Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                            Does the Photoshop PDF actually have a transparent background (you see the checkerboard)? Is that single layer called Background (if it is, it can't be transparent).

                            • 11. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                              Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                              Rob, no, I have not. I was just answering where to find the setting. You might be on to something.

                              • 12. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I tried saving as PDF/X-4 with layers and double-checked that there was a transparent background—didn't work.

                                • 13. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Is the white BGR hard-saved in the PDF file, or is the ID container putting a white BGR on all placed objects within its box? How do we find out?

                                  The ID container can be set to any fill including none. Why don't you put the InDesign page items on a layer above and keep the PS files on the bottom layer?

                                  • 14. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                    Scott Falkner Level 5

                                    Use the Layer Comps panel to make a layer comp for each page. Place the PSD into InDesign once for each page and change the layer options for each placement to get  the correct layer comp.

                                     

                                    Now, as for converting this for process colour work, I see many problems. The biggest is that your blacks are RGB blacks. Converted to CMYK they will be rich blacks, not pure process black. If you use a custom CMYK conversion to make your text process black the blacks in your images will be process black too and not as dark and rich as you like. It’s easier to fix the wrong black in your text layers than the wrong black in your photos.

                                     

                                    So after converting to CMYK you’ll need to change the colour of each text layer to process black, and set the opacity mode to Multiply to get an overprint. (I know multiply ≠ overprint, but for this purpose the results will be the same.)

                                     

                                    Edit: I realize now this only applies to the PSD. You can’t access layers in a photoshop PDF from InDesign. However there is an export command in File > Export Layer Comps to PDF. So you can set up the layer comps then export the lot to one multipage PDF file. Vectors are preserved, but I don't know what PDF preset it uses.

                                    • 15. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                      MW Design Level 5

                                      I have read this thread and the former one a few times since these post began. I would vote for just biting the bullet and redoing it in ID. All this jumping through hoops is counter-productive and the time would be better spent actually redoing it.

                                       

                                      I know I'm cranky, but at some point one just needs to learn how to layout such a thing and move on with the work. Think of all the time spent forcing PS to layout 32 pages as a learning experience of what not to do.

                                       

                                      Mike

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                                      • 16. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                        Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        rob day wrote:

                                         

                                        I tried saving as PDF/X-4 with layers and double-checked that there was a transparent background—didn't work.

                                        I can confirm this.
                                        Sounds like a bug to me.

                                         

                                        Instead one could use different PDF Export options with PhotoShop.
                                        PDF version should be 1.7 or above, no downsampling.
                                        Then transparent background is still transparent when placed with InDesign.

                                         

                                        Regards,
                                        Uwe

                                        • 17. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                          Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Hm. If it's a bug, the bug is with PhotoShop's PDF export.
                                          If I open the PDF/X4 with Acrobat Pro the white background is actually there.
                                          A white object in the background.

                                           

                                          Regards,
                                          Uwe

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                            Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            If one is using InDesign for PDF/X-4 output the background will be transparent.
                                            The same PDF/X-4 export joboptions file used with PhotoShop will result in a white background.

                                             

                                            Regards,
                                            Uwe

                                            • 19. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              Instead one could use different PDF Export options with PhotoShop.

                                              PDF version should be 1.7 or above, no downsampling.

                                              I had turned off sampling and compression with my tests—still did not work. It might be a bug, or it could be that Photoshop's "canvas" is a bitmap while Illustrator's and ID's background pages are vector objects? Even though the "canvas" pixels can be transparent, I wonder if there is something about the PDF container that stops the PS PDF background from being placed as transparent.

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                Hi Rob,
                                                I think, it's simply the PDF/X-4 tag.

                                                Without that (and otherwise the same export settings) the background will be transparent.

                                                 

                                                Regards,
                                                Uwe

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  I think, it's simply the PDF/X-4 tag.

                                                   

                                                  Ah thanks, that works—set the Standard to None.

                                                  1 person found this helpful
                                                  • 22. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                    Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    And I discovered another oddity with PDF/X-4 export from PhotoShop.
                                                    If live text is included it's likely that the PDF/X-4 cannot be validated with Actobat Pro or DC.
                                                    Due to an error how the text is included.

                                                     

                                                    If I place such a PDF/X-4 from PhotoShop on an InDesign page and export that page with InDesign to PDF/X-4, the validation is ok.

                                                     

                                                    An example is a used HeleveticaNeue-CondensedBold from my OSX 10.10.5 system with PhotoShop 2015.5.
                                                    Preflight in Acrobat DC is throwing an error about the "width" of the used "characters" (I have to translate that from my German version of Acrobat DC, latest version).

                                                     

                                                    Regards,
                                                    Uwe

                                                    1 person found this helpful
                                                    • 23. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                      Under S. Level 1

                                                      Okay, so just to recap, after learning all these new things they don't put in the help files ;-)

                                                       

                                                      To copy a vector shape that retains all of its vector properties straight from PS to ID — without going through AI — one must save a PDF that is NOT X-4 (not sure anyone has specified what it SHOULD be, though, so I am going to assume whatever the default is should be left there) and NOT have any live text.

                                                       

                                                      So right off the bat, we've eliminated the option of porting over the magazine's text that way. Which is fine, I just want to know what my limitations are and they're becoming clearer as we go. I'll have to copy the text manually into fresh new ID boxes, which is probably the right thing to do in the long run anyway (and will force me to learn more of the program as I go, too).

                                                       

                                                      But back to transferring vector shapes from PS to ID, then I place the file while making sure Transparent Background is checked.

                                                       

                                                      Assuming all of that works (haven't tried it yet) will this create a smart layer that will still require AI or PS to edit?

                                                       

                                                      PS: Could a moderator please take me off the "questionable people who must wait for moderation" list? For crying out loud, I've written lots of posts.

                                                      • 24. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                        jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                        Vector should be placed from Illustrator (or from Acrobat) as a linked file if it is complex.

                                                         

                                                        If it is a simple vector shape, the workflow is copy from PS > paste to AI (it will have no fill or stroke) > give it a fill and stroke (type "D") > copy from AI > paste to ID

                                                         

                                                        I don't go the Acrobat route to get things from PS to ID, but the PDF/X are ISO standards to send to printers Both 1a and 3 use Acrobat 4, which does not support transparency. You might start with High Quality or Press Quality, and modify whatever you start with. Why are you avoiding Illustrator?

                                                         

                                                        Also, ID does not have a "smart layer".

                                                         

                                                        If I were a moderator, I would take you off the moderation list in a heartbeat!

                                                        1 person found this helpful
                                                        • 25. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                          Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                          Not exactly.
                                                          Best is you are using PDF/X-4 as a template but you have to do some changes and save the PDF Export options to a new name. Maybe use "PSD-" or "PhotoShop-" as a prefix. Do NOT use this setting with InDesign or Illustrator. It's a special purpose setting just for this task.


                                                          Changes are:

                                                           

                                                          1. Set the PDF/X-4 Standard to None.
                                                          That would automatically change the compatibility to Acrobat 5 (PDF 1.4).
                                                          I'm not sure, but I think you can leave it there. No need to change it to Acrobat 8 (PDF 1.7).
                                                          That would make the bug go away with the white background. Vector graphics stay as vector graphics, live text fonts will be embedded, transparency stays as transparency.

                                                           

                                                          2. Do not downsample images.

                                                          3. Do not compress images.

                                                           

                                                          No fear: You can have live text in your PhotoShop documents.

                                                           

                                                          You have to understand that the PDF you are saving to is only a "bridge" to get your content unchanged to InDesign.
                                                          You cannot do this with a placed PSD file.

                                                           

                                                          Regards,
                                                          Uwe

                                                          • 26. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            So right off the bat, we've eliminated the option of porting over the magazine's text that way. Which is fine, I just want to know what my limitations are and they're becoming clearer as we go.

                                                            I agree with Uwe. You don't want to add complications to an already overly-complicated workflow. If all you are trying to do is get your Photoshop pages over to ID for pagination, save them as PDF/X-4 with the Standard set to None. By default this will leave all color unchanged and the text as vectors:

                                                             

                                                            Screen Shot 2016-10-20 at 3.11.31 PM.png

                                                            • 27. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                              Vector should be placed from Illustrator (or from Acrobat) as a linked file if it is complex.

                                                              Our understanding is the OP has finished pages with text in Photoshop and is trying to avoid recreation. So Photoshop PDF/X-4 with no standard leaves all color unchanged, vector text, and the (needed?) transparent background.

                                                              • 28. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                Peter Spier Most Valuable Participant (Moderator)

                                                                unders11 wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                PS: Could a moderator please take me off the "questionable people who must wait for moderation" list? For crying out loud, I've written lots of posts.

                                                                It's actually not something a mod can do, but I've submitted your name to the powers-that-be.

                                                                 

                                                                That may not make any difference in this thread, though.

                                                                • 29. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                  jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                                                                  Rob,

                                                                  Thank you for catching this. I missed a few posts and saw this and responded to it. My fault for not reading all the parts I missed.

                                                                   

                                                                  "To copy a vector shape that retains all of its vector properties straight from PS to ID — without going through AI — one must save a PDF that is NOT X-4 (not sure anyone has specified what it SHOULD be"

                                                                  • 30. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                    one must save a PDF that is NOT X-4 (not sure anyone has specified what it SHOULD be"

                                                                    You can use the X-4 preset, you just have to set the Standard to None. So as Uwe pointed out it wouldn't pass an X-4 preflight, but I don't see how that really matters in this case.

                                                                    • 31. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                      Stephen_A_Marsh Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      The last time I looked, Photoshop vectors to PDF were a “hybrid”, yes, the path was vector, however the “fill” was not vector, it is raster at the document resolution and colour mode.

                                                                      • 32. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        That may be, but it doesn't seem to affect export or output quality. 12pt text at 30ppi in PS on the left and the PDF/X-4 export zoomed to 1600% in Acrobat on the right

                                                                         

                                                                        Screen Shot 2016-10-21 at 7.32.30 AM.png

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                                                                        • 33. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                          Under S. Level 1

                                                                          Personal preference, among the people in this thread already aware of the context...

                                                                           

                                                                          ...when it comes to large, hi-resolution, full-color RGB images for the master file, do you favor PSD, PNG or other?

                                                                           

                                                                          It was always my assumption that PNGs and flat PSDs (no layers) are essentially the same thing, especially if I'm working in RGB. But which do I use if I want the absolute max quality for my master file? (The output will be compressed, but maybe someday we'll want to go full-color 300dpi print, so I want that master file as pristine and "OG" as possible -- but without requiring the 'editability' of individual layers).

                                                                           

                                                                          EDIT: I could be wrong, but I don't think this one had to go through moderation queue. Thanks, mods! =) I've finally graduated.

                                                                          • 34. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                            Under S. Level 1

                                                                            I can confirm this (I might not know ID but I do know PS) all PS FX are rasterized down to pixels on all PDF exports, no exceptions (that I know of).

                                                                            • 35. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                              Prior to CC2015 InDesign ignored PNG embedded profiles and used the document's assigned RGB profile, so you had to be careful not to use conflicting profiles when you placed PNGs.

                                                                               

                                                                              Yes flattened PSDs and 24bit PNGS with matching profiles should produce the same output. But then why would you want to flatten PSDs and lose the ability to edit effects, adjustment layers, etc.? There's no need to flatten PSDs when you place them into page layout, and there's the added benefit of being able to turn layers on and off from within ID.

                                                                              • 36. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                                Under S. Level 1

                                                                                rob day wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                Yes flattened PSDs and 24bit PNGS with matching profiles should produce the same output. But then why would you want to flatten PSDs and lose the ability to edit effects, adjustment layers, etc.? There's no need to flatten PSDs when you place them into page layout, and there's the added benefit of being able to turn layers on and off from within ID.

                                                                                Wait a minute, here. If InDesign can manipulate PSDs under the hood as efficiently as Photoshop can, then are you saying it's been an option to hide/unhide TEXT layers this way this entire time? I wonder if a PDF produced with an ID file linking to a PSD file that contains all the live text in the magazine, would still retain that text as live (ie, copy/paste-able)?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Also, couldn't the entire 32-page monster PSD file I'm trying to bind simply be linked to 32 different times from within InDesign -- with only one page showing each time -- to produce a fully-binded magazine without the hassle of having to transfer anything except that monster PSD file?

                                                                                 

                                                                                What are the limitations of using linked PSDs this way? I didn't think ID could be trusted to decode PSDs that efficiently, that the need for flat images would be essentially obsolete.

                                                                                • 37. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  What are the limitations of using linked PSDs this way? I didn't think ID could be trusted to decode PSDs that efficiently, that the need for flat images would be essentially obsolete.

                                                                                  None, there's no advantage to flattening before placing. Text will get rasterized either way, but in a normal workflow no one would be setting body text in Photoshop.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I wonder if a PDF produced with an ID file linking to a PSD file that contains all the live text in the magazine, would still retain that text as live (ie, copy/paste-able)?

                                                                                  No. You would have to edit the text in Photoshop, update the link, and re-export the PDF

                                                                                  • 38. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                                    rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    The transparent text is set in Photoshop and can be turned on and off via Object layer options. But then I could also set the text with the same transparent effect in InDesign where it's going to be easier to edit.

                                                                                     

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Screen Shot 2016-10-21 at 9.07.57 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-10-21 at 9.08.06 PM.png

                                                                                    1 person found this helpful
                                                                                    • 39. Re: So I accidentally created a magazine in Photoshop... :-/
                                                                                      Under S. Level 1

                                                                                      rob day wrote:

                                                                                      I wonder if a PDF produced with an ID file linking to a PSD file that contains all the live text in the magazine, would still retain that text as live (ie, copy/paste-able)?

                                                                                      No. You would have to edit the text in Photoshop, update the link, and re-export the PDF

                                                                                      Understood, but would you be able to copy a line of text from the resulting PDF and paste it in Notepad, or would it all be -- at best -- just vector shapes completely disconnected from any notion of "live" text? (Remember, most PDFs let you copy the text, so there's more info there than just the shapes themselves, right?)

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