38 Replies Latest reply on Dec 30, 2016 10:14 AM by milkmade

    Samsung 960 Pro

    milkmade Level 1

      Anyone else order one? I returned mine 950 pro after I heard the announcement and have been patiently waiting. Popped up on Amazon for a pre-order the other night so I pulled the trigger on the 512GB.

       

      Curious to see some premiere benches on this puppy.

        • 1. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
          JFPhoton Level 3

          .....there are reviews of this drive on Anandtech and other places online. Best performance is on 1 or 2 TB version......significantly better than 950 Pro. My question is now that there are these large capacity versions, why not ditch a separate OS and programs drive and just put EVERYTHING on a 1 or 2 TB 960 Pro ? Actual availability is supossed to be 4 to 6 weeks from now.

          • 2. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            This is going to make new ultralight laptops a new usable Premiere rditing platform if someone comes up with a fast CPU and adequate memory expansion plus a CUDA GPU.  I have a Samsung 960 Pro on order from NewEgg and have cancelled my overseas SM961 order.  It truly should be a single storage device solution as JFPhoton suggests and I may try it that way on my experimental system

            • 3. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
              milkmade Level 1

              Mine was scheduled to ship on the 31 and got pushed back to the 14th.

               

              I think it was kind of bizarre how Anandtech had a review up so early before the drives hit the shelves and then turned around and complained about not having final firmware and software support. Which is what Im sure they have been adding in the time since it was posted. Anandtech has been horrendously late to the party on all their reviews with any product. its very strange how it came out early and incomplete...but this is just me thinking allowed ( i think samsung sponsored the review).

               


              I still think having a separate OS/APPS drive will benefit the I/O system

              • 4. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                Dirttracker86

                Bill, I was going to buy the big , heavy asus rog 17 inch as a Christmas present to myself because of the multiple drives. But if you can test the 960 as a single drive solution before black friday so I can buy the lightweight 17 incher instead , if it works, I will be glad to make a litte "donation" to you for your time and effort.

                • 5. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                  chrisw44157881 Level 4

                  how can it be a one drive wonder if the random 4k speeds are bad @ 30MB/sec? that's about the same speed as usb 2.0!

                  for comparison, to save money, a 8TB seagate gets write 10MB/sec!!!!

                   

                  if you think that's funny, check this out:

                  the really old samsung 840 evo 1TB(yes, you read that right, 1TB

                  got 37MB/sec 4k random read speed. that's right, ancient ssd had better performance for windows os(not large file transfers)

                   

                  I still think multiple drives are better.

                  there are a large number of small files in the Windows system.

                  you would be better off with a cheap ssd for os, then leave 950pro to large files > 4k

                   

                  besides, the 950 pro is actually faster for 4k than the 960!

                   

                  also, probably everyone forgot to do this after converting to ssd's:

                  if your volume cannot be divided by 4096, it is not aligned as a 4k sector and will be much slower and also kill your SSD faster!

                  and enabling TRIM so the SSD doesn't get slower and slower.

                  change sector size from 4k to 64k on video drive.

                  don't defrag either...

                   

                  what can we take away from this?

                  well, save your money and get a really old ssd for your OS, then save the nice stuff for large data transfer like video.

                  and for the love of $%^$%, align your hard drive sectors to 4096, sector size 64kb video drive and enable TRIM!!!!

                   

                  don't defrag SSD's either...please..just don't...

                  • 6. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                    JFPhoton Level 3

                    ...there is a phenomena of these NVMe drives to " throttle back" to a slower transfer rate when under the condition of transferring very large sequential data transfers. Supposedly, the 960 Pro does MUCH better at this than its predecessor......taking double the data before "throttling ".

                     

                    I would be curious if owners of the 950 Pro,or, other previous NVMe variants, have experienced any of these issues while using these drives for video editing ,or, related tasks.

                    • 7. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                      chrisw44157881 Level 4

                      i read some disturbing heat issues that create automatic throttling. anyone attempting to use a 950/960 pro 24/7 may want to heavily consider putting a heatsink or large fan on the SSD's.

                      • 8. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                        Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        I have a Samsung 950 Pro 512 GB that I just tried to see if there is any throttling with heavy write action .. For my test file I used a test file that was 108 GB (in actuality it was 3 each 36GB segments).  Here is a Windows 10 plot showing a write rate of 1.09 GB/second only limited by the XP941 read rate and no sign of throttling.

                         

                        XP941 CDM.png

                        I sure do not know what it takes to demonstrate any sign of throttling in using it in Premiere.

                        • 9. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          I just got my Fedex notification and have my Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB arriving tomorrow.  I will bench it quickly and then go ahead and try the one drive trick, That may take a day or two.

                          • 10. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                            tfi productions 44 Level 1

                            hello,

                             

                            i'm just chiming in to keep track of this thread

                             

                            i'm building a new laptop from evoc hidevolution

                            and a new desktop from puget sound

                             

                            i'm liking the samsung 960 pro 512gb drives for both machines...

                             

                            my concerns are:

                            1) overheating

                            2) throttling back

                            3) 4k vs 64k cluster size

                             

                            i'm gonna start doing some research

                             

                            this is a great thread so far

                             

                            cheers,

                             

                            j

                            • 11. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                              milkmade Level 1

                              From all the research I've done, it seems nothing in the real world will likely make these drives throttle..

                               

                              All the tests that make them throttle from the benchmarks and reviews I've seen have all been set-up to do just that, or are synthetic in nature.

                               


                              Premiere will unlikely make these drives throttle.

                               

                              On another note, still no shipping information for me. Amazon just lists it as arriving tomorrow but I doubt that it's right because it hasn't been shipped yet. I noticed the 1TB is now pushed back to Jan...I really hope this isn't the case for the 512s...

                              • 12. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Well here is the CryatalDiskMark that I just did on my brand spanking new 960 Pro 512 GB M.2 SSD.

                                960 512 MB 8-core 4.5GHz .png

                                It is real.  I just exported my Premiere Pro BenchMark Disk I/O test and the write rate is 1952 MB/second!  The fastest single SSD in the world so far, I imagine that when the larger 960 Pro get released early next year that they might do a smidgen better. This was of course on my 8-core i7-5960X at 4.5GHz and 64 GB of RAM.  This is almost (I have to repeat the testing many times because of the 1 second resolution of Windows clock for the time stamps) the same speed as my Areca ARC-1883i with 7 each Samsung 840 Pro's in RAID 3

                                 

                                I have not been able to ever get any signs of throttling with my 950 when working with Premiere.  On my 950 I have written to it at its fastest write rate for a minute straight and it showed no signs of slowing down.  I will try the same thing with the 960 as soon as I get time

                                 

                                My next step is to try the one disk for everything and see if it is practical.  Might take a couple of days to implement and check out.

                                 

                                WOW!!!!

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                  tfi productions 44 Level 1

                                  Hi Bill,

                                   

                                  Congrats on the new drive!

                                  Thanks for posting stats.

                                   

                                  Questions: (sorry if they are simple)

                                  1) Is this drive the same drive if i get the laptop model?

                                  2) Any heat/temp issues?

                                  3) Would you also recommend formatting the drive to 64k cluster size?

                                   

                                  thanks,

                                   

                                  jeff

                                  • 14. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                    1. My drive is the size that a laptop would use but be very careful as laptop specs can be very misleading
                                    2. I seriously doubt anything that you can do in Premiere would cause any heating problems from my initial testing.
                                    3. I will try using 64K formatting as my initial format but of course it is not very efficient for capacity usage with the OS and Applications, great for media.
                                    • 15. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                      tfi productions 44 Level 1

                                      Hi Bill,

                                       

                                      Thanks for the answers.

                                       

                                      I'm getting the laptop first.

                                      I will use a standard ssd for the OS.

                                      I will format the Samsung Pro 960 for 64k cluster size for footage drive.

                                      I still like using a multiple drive setup with PPRO and doing audio production.

                                       

                                      It will be neat to see how the drive reacts to having everything on it though, i'm curious...

                                       

                                      cheers,

                                       

                                      jeff

                                      • 16. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                        Dirttracker86 Level 1

                                        Thank you, Thank you, Thank you !!!! Your the real deal. "Real Deal Bill" lol, sorry just had to do that.:) and thank you in advance for doing the one drive test, I think a lot of people are looking forward to the answer you give.

                                        • 17. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                          milkmade Level 1

                                          Wow Bill, consider yourself lucky. I pre-ordered this back in Oct and it seems like its delayed everywhere.

                                           

                                          Where did you buy yours from? Samsung direct?

                                          • 18. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            Yes it was Samsung directly and delivered by a Samsung distributor

                                             

                                            Actually I have another order that I will probably cancel

                                            • 19. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                              brian_rounds Level 1

                                              What is the best SSD to get right now. Available to buy right now, deliverable in 2 days? I'll get the new Samsung 960pro in 2017.

                                              • 20. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                brian_rounds Level 1

                                                And i'm looking for the best external hard drives as well.

                                                 

                                                I'm a Mac video editor/producer coming over to the PC world. All my drives are Thunderbolt 2 - will them work? Or should I just start new?

                                                 

                                                Thanks.

                                                • 21. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                  Pcenginefx Level 1

                                                  How does this translate into render times?  For example do you have a render time difference between the 960 PRO 512 and the 950 PRO 512?

                                                  • 22. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                    Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Question render is a generic term, do you mean rendering a timeline or do you mean exporting a timeline?

                                                    • 23. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                      Pcenginefx Level 1

                                                      Sorry, when I say render I mean exporting a timeline.

                                                      • 24. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                        Pcenginefx Level 1

                                                        Be very interesting to see timeline export times between the 950 PRO and 960 PRO.  I personally have been rocking with the 950 PRO 512 for a few months now and can't complain (it isn't the bottleneck in my system anyway...my GeForce 1080 is).

                                                        • 25. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                          tfi productions 44 Level 1

                                                          hello,

                                                           

                                                          i have a gtx 1070 that i haven't installed yet

                                                          if you check out the nvidia geforce forum

                                                          there is nothing but problems for all of the new cards

                                                          1060, 1070, 1080 (laptop and desktop)

                                                          it sucks

                                                           

                                                          can you explain why the 1080 is the bottle neck please

                                                           

                                                          i think a lot of us could benefit

                                                           

                                                          thanks,

                                                           

                                                          j

                                                          • 26. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                            Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            On my Premiere Pro BenchMark  (PPBM) testing of course on the Disk I/O intensive test their is a difference, but remember that each of these PPBM tests were designed to stress test hardware features.  There is not any appreciable difference in our Premiere Pro BenchMark  (PPBM) testing on the three other tests because they were design to test other parts of the hardware like CPU and or GPU.  Now because we had to stress these components you probably will not see these uses in your normal editing

                                                             

                                                            All 4 exports from PPBM  are in the Output.csv file and here are my results to compare the two situations.  I really doubt that it would be worthwhile upgrading to a 960 if you already have a 950. 

                                                             

                                                            "24","55","19","250", Premiere Version:, 11.0.0.154, GTX 1060 x16 2400 MHz 6GB, 4.5 GHz, 64GB 2666, C:\= 840 Pro, 950 Pro, Win 10

                                                             

                                                            "19","55","19","250", Premiere Version:, 11.0.0.154, GTX 1060 x16 2400 MHz 6GB, 4.5 GHz, 64GB 2666, C:\= 840 Pro, 960 Pro, Win 10

                                                             

                                                            Notice that the first number is the Disk I/O write rate test and here you see where the 960 excels

                                                             

                                                            As I expected there is no difference on the 3 "normal" exports.  Remember each of those PPBM exports is designed to stress a particular area(s) of your computer.  When you go to the other three tests you will find for instance that second number is both GPU and CPU intensive so that disk read and write rates are not significant.  Test 3 is extremely GPU intensive and test four is only CPU intensive.

                                                             

                                                            Just as an example of PPBM I will show you the results of adding a second overclocked GTX 1060 (EVGA 06G-P4-6163-KR)

                                                             

                                                            "19","51","11","249", Premiere Version:, 11.0.0.154, 2 x GTX 1060 x16 2400 MHz 6GB, 4.5 GHz, 64GB 2666, C:\= 960 Pro, for all files, Win 10

                                                            Notice that both GPU assisted number are improved.  Forget the +/-1 on the CPU intensive fourth number as the time stamps on the numbers are only 1 second resolution.

                                                             

                                                            I doubt that properly installed the GTX 1080 could be a bottleneck, I have received some great results on a system running a GTX 1080 and you can see my result with the GTX 1060's which I consider great for a reasonable price

                                                            • 27. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                              Pcenginefx Level 1

                                                              Thanks for the results Bill.  I didn't think it would be too much benefit since I'm running the 950 PRO M.2 but it's still tempting to squeeze every last bit of power that I can

                                                               

                                                              As far as my comment of my 1080 being my current bottleneck, in my type of exports I always have Magic Bullet Looks v4 applied which takes full advantage of GPU acceleration.  I export 4K H.264 for YouTube (w/Magic Bullet Looks & some light color correction) and when I do, my 1080 is pegged at 100%, while my CPU (the 10-core 6950X) is at 70% (being exported to my 950 M.2).  This tells me that since the GPU is at 100% that it is the bottleneck in the line (not that it is slow by any means!).  I was thinking of upgrading even further to the Titan X but will probably wait to see how the 1080ti performs.

                                                              • 28. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                Does your system and Magic Bullet software support a second x16 GPU, it might less expensive than that upgrade.

                                                                 

                                                                Also overclock your GPU and get all you can out of it.  All you have to do with any GPU overclocking tool is up the Memory Clock, it is a very safe procedure.  My SC GTX 1060 Memory Clock runs normally at 2000 MHz but with overclocking it goes to 2500 easily (of course not all cards might do that) and then when you look at GPU-Z on the sensors tab with any CUDA application nVidia down-clocks my GTX 1060 to 2400 MHz but it really helps.

                                                                • 29. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                  Pcenginefx Level 1

                                                                  I'm not sure if MB Looks can utilize multiple GPUs - I'll have to contact them and ask.

                                                                   

                                                                  As far as the GPU goes, yes I can OC it for sure - I'm not complaining though as I'm perfectly happy with the kind of export speeds I'm getting currently with 4K/H.264.

                                                                  • 30. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                    milkmade Level 1

                                                                    My god, I can't believe my eyes! Just got notice from Amazon, that after 2 months of purchasing my 960 pro, it's finally shipped. Horrible delay samsung! Hopefully the drivers are at least ready

                                                                     



                                                                    • 31. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                      Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                      I found no drivers necessary, I just installed it, formatted it and used it.  but then I already had NVMe installed on Windows 8 but it was automatic on Windows 10.  But on the other hand I have not found any advatage for NVMe on the project drive where things are highly sequential

                                                                      • 32. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                        Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                                                                        I will be getting a 960 evo soon running under windows 10 on a Asus x99-A II. What drivers do I need to achieve best performance?

                                                                        • 33. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                          I seriously doubt you will need anything.  I did not have to install anything for Windows 10 just check under devices to see if the NVMe driver is in and working.

                                                                           

                                                                          NVMe Device.png

                                                                          • 34. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                            Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                                                                            Thank you, Bill. I will run OS and apps on my 850 pro and media files, cache and previews on the 960 evo. Do you think that is the best option?

                                                                            • 35. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                              That sounds good but my experience with "Media Cache" and "Media Cache Files" has not warranted my changing from the default location, maybe my editing is not complicated enough to change the location, the OS/Applications SSD. 

                                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                                              • 36. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                here is a link to samsung's website for drivers

                                                                                Tool & Software | Download | Samsung V-NAND SSD

                                                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                                                • 37. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                                  Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                                                                                  You keep in all one 960 pro. Got you.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  I just interested in a comparison: Stand alone vs 850 pro + 960 evo.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Samsung 960 Pro
                                                                                    milkmade Level 1

                                                                                    Hey Bill, I use the Samsung NVME driver.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    I already had it installed from my 950 pro but a lot of reviews I read back in Oct when this was paper launched said it was missing on some of the performance claims because the specific driver for the 960 series hadn't been provided yet. Obviously if you are having no issues, its fine, but I updated the driver and the Samsung magician software just in case.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    My basis benchmark tests showed no difference, but I think the driver provides features not performance.