13 Replies Latest reply on Oct 30, 2016 6:13 PM by RoninEdits

    HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?

    adam diller

      I'm working on the layout of a new Premiere PC build and am trying to sort out the best drive options. I work with a variety of formats, but frequently am dealing with stuff that's pretty taxing - 5K R3D, 4K ProRes being the biggest, data-wise. A lot of the projects I'm working on are big - 1-2TB, some in the 4-6TB range. I don't have the budget to store 4-6TB of media on SSDs.

       

      My thought is to buy a couple of small, cheap SDDs for OS, programs, and then another for the media cache. Then I would potentially Raid 0 (3) 2TB drives for media, and plan to move projects on and off of those drives as I'm working on them. I also have an external usb3 2-drive enclosure that can hold various drives and do Raid 0 or 1.

       

      I guess the plan is:

      SSD 1 - OS, etc

      SSD 2 - media cache

      3x 2TB HDD RAID 0 - media, projects (current)

       

      USB -> 6TB backup of RAID 0

       

      + archived, offline backups of all project media and completed projects (bare drives in storage system)

       

      Questions:

      Is it ok to do software Raid 0?

      Is there a better way to set this up than I'm thinking about?

      Could I get away with putting the media cache on the Raid 0 for a while if I can't afford both SSDs at once?

      How long will it take to rebuild the Raid 0 from the backup when it fails?

      Should I stick with a 2 drive Raid 0 (i.e. is the speed gain not worth it?)

       

      THANKS

        • 1. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          RAID 0 is not ideal as if you loose any one of those three drives you loose everthing.  Do you really need 6 TB of online storage for your current projects?  Your three drive RAID 0 array when you start out with fresh drives probably would be in the 500-600 MB/sec performance catagory but as it fills up it probably drop to half of that.  You would be a lot better off with just one SATA SSD of say 500 GB or a 1TB for really current projects and media and move your just finished projects to you backup.  Even better yet are the new M.2 PCIe Gen 3 x4 SSD's if your motherboard is PCIe Gen 3 and has an available x4 slot.  We just need more data on your hardware configuration.

          • 2. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
            adam diller Level 1

            Thanks for the response. I would love to have projects that are only .5 - 1TB on an SSD, but my current project is 4.5TB, others are in the 1-3TB range. It's not going to be in my budget to buy enough SSD space for the media files.

             

            Ideas for how I can do this better?

            • 3. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
              adam diller Level 1

              Again, thanks for the reply.

               

              My hardware config is another whole topic I wanted to stay out of, but I get that it's hard to advise without knowing what else is going on.

               

              Here's what I'm looking to build (nothing purchased yet):

               

              CPU: Intel Core i7-5820K 3.3GHz 6-Core Processor  ($368.99 @ SuperBiiz)

              CPU Cooler: CRYORIG H5 Ultimate 76.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($46.88 @ OutletPC)

              Motherboard: ASRock X99 Taichi ATX LGA2011-3 Motherboard  ($219.99 @ SuperBiiz)

              Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) DDR4-2133 Memory  ($169.99 @ Newegg)

              Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 6GB 6GB WINDFORCE OC 6G Video Card  ($265.99 @ SuperBiiz)

              Case: Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($79.99 @ NCIX US)

              Power Supply: EVGA 650W 80+ Gold Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($77.99 @ SuperBiiz)

              • 4. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                For that size you will still have a very expensive solution.  You need either RAID 3 or 6 and a very expensive Areca RAID card and possibly more disk drives.  Take a look at what Harm Millard (before he passed away) put on my Premiere Pro BenchMark (PPBM) site about RAID.

                 

                The Areca ARC-1883i Is a $600 card that I happen to have that I have with 7 SSD older Samsung 840 Pro 256 GB drives in RAID 3 (net 1.4 TB).  Of course you do not need seven drives.

                • 5. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                  adam diller Level 1

                  Thanks again for your replies.

                   

                  I have read that article, it's very helpful.

                   

                  A hardware controller and Raid 3 is going to be out of my price range.

                   

                  I guess I'm being frustrating here, because I'm asking for a good solution to an inherently compromised situation.

                   

                  Maybe I should just take the time to make proxies of everything? In which case I would probably go back to avid, build a much less powerful machine, and return to an offline workflow

                   

                  I am more-or-less ok with the idea of Raid 0, assuming that it will fail at some point, and estimating that it will take a day to rebuild it. I know that sounds nuts, but I'm a grad student and filmmaker who edits, time is easier to come by than money.

                   

                  Could I put the project files on the OS SSD as well to keep them out of the raid backup scenario?

                  • 6. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                    cvid01 Level 4

                    Just a thought: Your power supply at 650W may be a bit shy. Others more experienced than I might have some suggestions.

                    • 7. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                      Jim_Simon Level 8

                      Harm Millard (before he passed away)

                       

                      Say what now?!

                      • 9. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                        Peru Bob Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        [Moved to the Hardware forum]

                        • 10. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                          Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          adam diller wrote:

                           

                          I am more-or-less ok with the idea of Raid 0, assuming that it will fail at some point, and estimating that it will take a day to rebuild it. I know that sounds nuts, but I'm a grad student and filmmaker who edits, time is easier to come by than money.

                           

                          Could I put the project files on the OS SSD as well to keep them out of the raid backup scenario?

                          There is no way ever to rebuild a RAID 0 array

                           

                          I will be trying putting all files on one of the new Samsung 960 M.2 Pro PCIe Gen 3 x4 SSD's shortly when I get delivery, I would not suggest project files and the OS /Applications SSD.  Depending on your media putting your project files it your second SSD would be preferable.  You can go RAID 3 with a minimum of three drives but that does require an expensive RAID controller.

                           

                          If you can at least temporarily get by with 2 TB think about something like a Crucial MX 300 2TB for $500 which would be better overall performance and higher reliability than your 3 hard disk drives in RAID 0.  And as the price keeps dropping you can always add more of these.

                          • 11. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                            adam diller Level 1

                            Thanks again for your generous replies.

                             

                            I'm confused about the raid 0 thing, sorry if this is a silly question.

                             

                            When/if a raid 0 fails, can't you replace the drives and re copy the media files lost onto new drives arranged in a new raid 0?

                             

                            I know this kind of stupidness probably makes your skin crawl, but I just don't have $1,500 for 6TB of SDD space.

                             

                            Even if I have to replace all 3x2TB HDD three times over the course of a project - which seems very unlikely - it would only cost around $630 (9 drives at $70 each) It seems much more likely that at most 2 of the drives will fail, which brings my cost down to $350. And I already have 3 2TB drives that I can allocate, so it's essentially $140. I'm just trying to explain why I'm trying to sustain this idea that you've explained is bad.

                             

                            I don't mean to be arguing against your better suggestion, but it's more a matter of figuring out if my HDD workaround might work, or whether I should reconsider my entire PC build, and not try to do online edits.

                             

                            OR??

                            • 12. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                              Bill Gehrke Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              Well yes if you do not have project data on the RAID and you have current backups you can use RAID 0.  In the past I have been a RAID 0 user with no lost data.

                              • 13. Re: HDD Raid 0 for Premiere?
                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                Is it ok to do software Raid 0?

                                motherboard raid would be better for performance and stability

                                 

                                Is there a better way to set this up than I'm thinking about?

                                motherboard raid or a real hardware raid controller with enterprise hdd's.

                                 

                                Could I get away with putting the media cache on the Raid 0 for a while if I can't afford both SSDs at once?

                                it would be better to place the cache on the os/apps ssd if there is room. it would also be good to place project files on the ssd(s) and only media that is backed up on the raid drives. you could set the spare project autosaves to the other ssd or raid if needed.

                                 

                                How long will it take to rebuild the Raid 0 from the backup when it fails?

                                that will mostly be determined by file copy speed from the backup(s).

                                 

                                Should I stick with a 2 drive Raid 0 (i.e. is the speed gain not worth it?)

                                there should be some speed improvement with 3-4 drives vs only 2. for better performance you would also want to avoid filling the drives up past around 50%. so if you plan on having around 6tb projects, the raid should be near 10-12tb.

                                 

                                samsung 850 evo are good budget ssd's. the new SK hynix SL308 is a bit cheaper and looks promising.

                                if you go with hdd's larger than 2tb, try to skip 3tb as many have higher failure rates and jump up to 4tb drives.

                                you will also want faster memory, ddr4-2666-3000