17 Replies Latest reply on Nov 14, 2016 5:30 PM by Barbara Ash

    Need help with creating my own trim lines

    sandral74608673

      I am doing a photo book using Blurb's plug-in for ID. The customer service department recommended I create my own "trim lines" within the document, since some the photos I will be using will extend to Blurb's magenta trim line.

       

      I thought I had it set up correctly, but I am proofing my book, and I've discovered that my measurements were off.

      So, my questions are:

       

      1. I can fix this on the master pages and then "apply master to pages" to get the correct grid lines in place, and then move my photos around so they're in the right spots, right?

       

      2. How do I create my "trim lines" so that they are equidistant from Blurb's magenta trim lines? I tried to "eyeball" it but I know there's got to be a way to do it automatically in the program.

       

      This doc is now 72 pages long so I really hope I don't have to do too much to fix it!

       

      Thank you!!

        • 1. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
          Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

          As you suggested in question 1, master pages would be the most efficient way.

          If you know the location of Blurb's magenta trim lines, it will be easy to put your own trim lines in the right place because InDesign can help you with the math. Simply draw your time line, select it, and in the Options bar, add or subtract the distance you need. You can type a - to subtract and a + to add. When you hit Enter/Return, your trim line will move to the right position.

          • 2. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            The trim guides should be the same as the document width and height, which is defined in document setup. There would be no reason to manually add cropmarks to a book layout because they can be automatically added when you export to PDF—see the Marks and Bleeds tab in the Export dialog.

            • 3. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
              sandral74608673 Level 1

              Thank you! That worked perfectly!

              • 4. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                sandral74608673 Level 1

                Regardless of the fact that they can be added during Export, I need to be able to see them while I am working on the pages, so I can place my photos correctly.

                 

                I have a new problem: The trim guides I added are not showing up on all the pages, even though I applied master pages to all. Earlier in the project, I added some extra guides to help with placing the photos, and now I can't seem to get rid of them.

                 

                Can anyone help? Thanks!

                • 5. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                  Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

                  Trim guides not showing on all pages:

                  Were the trim guides added to the  master pages, added to both left and right masters and to any custom masters?

                  In Preferences > Guides and Pasteboard, is Guides in Back ticked?

                  In View > Guides and Grids, is Hide Guides turned on for some pages?

                   

                  Can't get rid of extra guides:

                  Under the View > Grids and Guides menu, make sure that guides are not locked.

                  In the Layers panel, check if the layer is locked that the guides are on.

                  • 6. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                    sandral74608673 Level 1

                    Yes, the trim guides were added to the master pages on both left and right. I don't think there are any custom masters.

                    No, Guides in Back isn't ticked.

                     

                    Hide Guides doesn't appear to be on anywhere.

                     

                    Guides are not locked, nor are any layers locked.

                     

                    To add insult to injury, on some of my pages, my backgrounds are messed up. The background was created as a filled box and placed on the master pages, as I learned how to do in this forum. But as you can see from the attached screen shot, the background is out of whack. On the same screen shot you can see the weird guides.

                    Sample page.JPG

                    • 7. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                      Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

                      I'm not sure what the pages and background are supposed to look like. If you can describe in what way they are 'out of whack' perhaps I can make a suggestion.

                      I don't see anything unusual about the guides that cannot be deleted. They could be on a master page or on a regular layout page, and you have probably checked both places. Are you able to select the guides with the black Selection tool?

                      It is possible that the InDesign file has gotten corrupt.  If that is the case, you could try closing InDesign and reopening it. If that doesn't solve the problem, you could try resetting the preferences file. Instructions are at Set preferences in Adobe InDesign  And if that doesn't work, you could try copying the pages and masters into a new InDesign document.

                      • 8. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                        rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                        Regardless of the fact that they can be added during Export, I need to be able to see them while I am working on the pages, so I can place my photos correctly.

                        Book design never needs built crop marks because the page trim should be defined by the document setup and the margin, page trim, and bleed guides are visible while you work. So here's the setup for a 10"x8" facing pages document. View>Screen Mode>Normal will show you the margin, trim, and bleed edges:

                         

                        Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 4.54.28 PM.png

                        View>Screen Mode>Preview shows the page only with no bleeds:

                         

                        Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 4.54.43 PM.png

                         

                        If the printer is requesting marks they should be added on export so that they accurately define the trim and bleeds and are positioned correctly:

                        Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.04.40 PM.png

                        • 9. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                          sandral74608673 Level 1

                          Barbara Ash--Here is a screenshot of what the pages should look like. The background is entirely gray.

                          Screenshot 2.JPG

                           

                           

                          In the first shot I posted, there was white space on the bottom left of the page. The trim lines I made are aqua. As I mentioned earlier, their sole purpose is to keep the black 2 pt. frames around the photos from being cut off, should I go up against Blurb's magenta trim guides.

                           

                          I cannot select some of the guides with the black selection tool and I can't understand why not. I did try closing and reopening ID.

                           

                          I don't really understand the information on the "setting preferences" page you linked to, and how it would help. I admit I am not really great at InDesign. I've never had any formal training and used it on a job years ago, generally flying by the seat of my pants.

                           

                          I'm wondering if I should just start over with a new document.

                           

                          Rob Day--The template provided by Blurb does have its own trim lines, guides, etc. However, the aqua guides I made are not for them (i.e. they did not request them; they responded to a question I asked), they are for me. Sorry, I am having trouble understanding how this all works.

                          • 10. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                            rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Sorry, I am having trouble understanding how this all works.

                             

                            The word trim in the print world means the page dimension. If you choose File>Document Setup do the Width and Height match the intended interior book page dimensions? That should be the case, and that would mean the black line in your screen capture is the page trim edge. There would never be a reason to setup the book pages to be larger than their final trim dimensions.

                             

                            The trim lines I made are aqua. As I mentioned earlier, their sole purpose is to keep the black 2 pt. frames around the photos from being cut off, should I go up against Blurb's magenta trim guides.

                            I wonder if you are miss understanding terms? The magenta lines in your capture look like the live area guide not the trim. Printers usually provide guides for the area where you shouldn't have items that might be affected if the trim or binding is a bit off. You usually would not want the edge of the left photo on the left page to sit an 1/4" from the trim. You would either keep it inside of the live area (the magenta guides), or run it as a bleed photo.

                             

                            So you either do this:

                            Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.48.38 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.48.43 PM.png

                             

                            Or this:

                             

                            Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.48.55 PM.png

                            Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.49.03 PM.png

                             

                            But not this because trimming isn't accurate enough to reliably maintain the small space between the edge of the photo and the trim:

                             

                            Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 5.49.23 PM.png

                            • 11. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                              sandral74608673 Level 1

                              On the company-provided template, it says  black is the "page size-trim line." You are correct about Magenta--it is the "safe zone."

                               

                              I wanted to do your first option. And they suggested I create my own "safe zone," which is what my aqua lines are for.

                               

                              I did start a new document and am copying and pasting the photos into it now. I really don't understand how my original document got so messed up. But as Barbara explained, maybe it got corrupted.

                              • 12. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                I just checked the Blurb document guidelines and I think you are indeed confusing the trim and live area. See this page for their description of the various page guides:

                                 

                                Trim and Bleed Guidelines for Blurb's InDesign Plug-in – Help Center

                                • 13. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                  Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

                                  It's difficult without being able to examine your InDesign file. It looks like the white area is caused by the offset of the gray frame. In other words, it looks like the gray frame has somehow moved so that the top of the frame is outside the page and the bottom of the frame is not going to the bottom of the frame.

                                  Because your trim lines are aqua, which is the default color for ruler guides, I thought they were ruler guides. Are your trim lines actually ruler guides or are they drawn lines?

                                  If you don't want the black 2 point frames around the photos to be cut off, in the Stroke panel you can choose the have the 2 point frames inside (the default is half in and half outside the frame). If you do that you will loose 1 point of your photo on all 4 sides, but that is not significant.

                                  • 14. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                    Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

                                    Rob is correct about the terminology. Knowing the right terminology is a tremendous help when communicating with us and with your print vendor.

                                    • 15. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      I wanted to do your first option. And they suggested I create my own "safe zone," which is what my aqua lines are for.

                                      Just keep in mind the magenta "safe zone" is simply a suggestion and doesn't have anything to do with the actual trim—it's more of a design consideration. If you want a larger visual margin you can move their magenta guides further away from the trim via Layout>Margins and Columns. Here I have a spread selected in the pages panel and I'm changing the magenta margin lines:

                                       

                                      Screen Shot 2016-11-14 at 6.18.03 PM.png

                                      • 16. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                        sandral74608673 Level 1

                                        Thank you so much for your patience and help with this! I am trying to finish it by midnight tomorrow, though it has been a work in progress (on and off) since the summer.

                                         

                                        I am going to change the stroke to "inside", as well as the magenta "safe zone." I did not know that it would not make a difference to Blurb if I changed their magenta lines.

                                         

                                        And I will be sure to use the correct terminology in the future!

                                         

                                        Once again, thanks!

                                        • 17. Re: Need help with creating my own trim lines
                                          Barbara Ash Adobe Community Professional

                                          I am rooting for you to finish on time!