19 Replies Latest reply on Feb 21, 2017 6:29 AM by FCCSBob

    Moving to Collection Sets and Collections

    Heirloom Bob Level 1

      I am working to resolve what was a bad idea and that's my filing by date folder structure in Lightroom CC.

       

      I have a Folder with my original images and a subfolder folder of edited jpg images. In this case, Africa is the folder and Jpg Exports is the subfolder.

       

      I have created in Collections, a Collection Set called Travel. I want a Collection then showing Africa and I want a sub collection of Africa called jpg Exports. What's the process to do this? I know I can drag Africa to the Travel Collection Set and they Africa photos will be there, but how can I get the jpg export subfolder of Africa, to the Collection as well.

        • 1. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

          Just select all of the images and Click on one of them and Drag it over to that collection name. If you want them in a Sub Collection under Africa use the Plus sign in the Collections title area and select Create collection. you will get this dialog box.

           

          Create Collection.PNG

           

          From there you can type in a name, Place the new collection inside a collection set and a few other options.

          You should also look into using Keywords.

          • 2. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
            ManiacJoe Adobe Community Professional

            An important question here is, do you really want the exported JPGs to be in the catalog? (This is not normal.)

            If yes, then you need to import the JPGs into the catalog, then add them to the desired collection.

            • 3. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
              Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

              ManiacJoe wrote:

               

              An important question here is, do you really want the exported JPGs to be in the catalog? (This is not normal.)

              If yes, then you need to import the JPGs into the catalog, then add them to the desired collection.

              I disagree. When I export images to any file format, JPG, TIFF, I want them in the catalog. I use LR to see All my images. Ones I have exported to send out or post, ones I have sent to PS and saved as TIFFs, ones I have created from screen shots. That is the whole point of LR. Having all images in one place to view and manage them.

              If I didn't put exported images in the catalog how would I know which ones I had exported, converted, to some other format from the RAW file.

              I find the idea of not having exported files in the LR catalog a bit short sighted. JMHO.

              • 4. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                Heirloom Bob Level 1

                OK...I have a Collection Set called Travel.

                 

                I have a folder in Lightroom called Africa. If I select all photos with the Africa folder, Lightroom will not allow me to drag them to my Travel Collection Set.

                 

                If I create a Collection under Travel, called Africa, I can now select all images with the Africa Folder in Lightroom, drag and drop them into the Africa Collection.

                 

                Now I have the Jpg Export Lightroom folder from Africa but I can't create a Collection within the Africa Collection for the Jpg Export.

                 

                Manlacjoe. I already have the Jpg Exports in the catalog and want to be able to see those edits from with a Collection.

                • 5. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                  Theresa J Adobe Community Professional

                  Bob,

                   

                  Do you understand the difference between LR folders, collections, and collection sets? In reading your questions, it's not clear to me that you understand the relationship between each of these. I think you might figure out your answer if you did. I recorded a short tutorial that explains the difference between folders and collections. You might want to watch this if you are even a little unsure about how they work. The Difference Between Lightroom Folders and Collections - YouTube

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                    Heirloom Bob Level 1

                    I thought I did Theresa but let me watch your video.

                    • 7. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                      Heirloom Bob Level 1

                      Ok...I had it right but let me explain what I am trying to do:

                       

                      Recently watch KelbyOne where Scott Kelby is advocating  his SLIM Simplified Lightroom Image Management system. The basic premise of his program is that we import photos into LR folders. In my case sadly, they are in date order and that makes finding a specific image, arduous at best. My RAW images are put into a date folder in LR. From there, any edits I do are exported to a subfolder of the date folder, as jpg files.

                       

                      Kelby proposes the use of collections now whereby after importing to the folder in Lightroom, the images are moved to a Collection. He proposes a limited number of collections, (for example, Travel, Landscapes, People, Animals, Misc etc. I would then take my Africa photos that reside in Lightroom  in a folder called Africa. I didn't use a date in this case because it was over a month so all images reside in the LR Folder Africa.  I edited my RAW images and exported them as jpg so they all reside in a subfolder of Africa called Jpg Exports.

                       

                      The SLIM system then proposes that all Travel images be in a Collection within Travel. In my case, one Collection within Travel will contain all my Africa images and would have a sub collection called Jpg Exports.

                       

                      Once I go though my entire library of images, the Travel Collection will contains potentially dozens of Travel Collections from the various places I have been. Now, the search for a particular image that I know was taken in Africa, allows me to quickly scan my Travel Collection for Africa to find a particular image. The same goes for a particular landscape photo that I have no idea when it was taken. A quick scan of my Landscape Collection would allow me to find the image I want. Currently, I would have to have a rough idea of when I took the shot to find the appropriate folders (folders are all in date order) and that would be simply a best guess.

                       

                      Furthermore, the SLIM system is best suited for someone with a blank catalog but I have several years of images already in date folders in Lightroom. I simply want to be able to go through my folders, determine the appropriate Collection they should be stored under and have both the originals and the edits be visible from within the applicable collection. I would have no need then to view the folders where they reside.

                      • 8. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                        Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                        Bob a Collection Set is where you would store actual collections. You can't have images in the Set Title only the actual named collections underneath the Collection set title.

                        you don't have to create Collection sets at all. What they are good for is if you have a lot of travel photos from different areas you create a collection set called Travel then real collections inside that Travel collection set. Like you did with creating the real collection called Africa.

                        It's a way to limit the screen space all your collection may take up. You can collapse the list of real collection under the heading of the collection set while you expand another collection set to view image in those collections.

                        • 9. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                          Let me say this No images are ever IN LR. LR is a Database program and only References your image into the Database from where they are stored on your hard drive. Also Folders are never IN LR. Again they are just referenced into the DB from where they are on your drives.

                          I personally place all my images into Dated folder from the Dates they were shot and by the Year. I have folders name Pictures 2006 to Pictures 2016. Inside those main folders are subfolders of the dates images were shot name 0406, 4th month 6th day,

                          I then have used Keywords and collections to place images into groups for many different years, months and days.

                           

                          There are many ways to store files on a hard drive and many ways to display images in LR. Find a way that suit you best. My way is the way I like to do it. Your way might be totally different. Neither is right or wrong.

                          • 10. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                            Heirloom Bob Level 1

                            Yes...I didn't say that right. Kelby proposes a Collection Set, for example Travel and then the different collections for the different places I traveled.

                             

                            So is it possible to create a Collection Set called Travel. Then can I create a Collection within the Travel Collection Set, called Africa, with a sub collection called jpg exports or the like, Mexico 2015 with a sub collection called jpg exports etc?

                             

                            Yes I understand although didn't really articulate it very well, that my actual images reside on my HD, in whatever folder I initially created and LR simply references these images.

                            • 11. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                              Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                              To my knowledge there aren't, can't be, sub-collections. You can have Travel as a collection set and then Africa as a collection inside that set but you can't have jpg Export inside Africa. You can have jpg Export inside the Travel collection set, and name it Africa jpg Export, so it would look like this.

                               

                              collection set Africa.PNG

                               

                              That way when you have images from say a trip to Spain you have have

                              Collections are not the same as Folders on your hard drive that can have subfolder. Collections can have Sub-Collection inside them.

                              Collections sets are a Grouping of actual collections.

                              You can have Collection Sets inside Collection Sets. Like Subfolders inside a top level folder and then actual collections in side them

                              So maybe something like this with the option to have other Collection Sets inside the Travel Collection set for other places you might go. I used Spain as one.

                               

                              Collection Sets inside Collection Sets.PNG

                               

                               

                              Take note of the icons used. A collection set icon looks like a storage box someone might use to store items in. An actual collection icon look like a sheet of paper or multiple sheets of paper.

                              Neither of them are Folders like the icon for actual folder on you hard drive and in the Folders section of LR.

                              • 12. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                dj_paige Level 9

                                To my knowledge there aren't, can't be, sub-collections.

                                Yes, Just Shoot Me, I agree with this.

                                 

                                Bob:

                                I'm not familiar with Kelby's SLIM system, but previously I have read relatively poor advice from him regarding organzing, and it sounds to me that this is, in my opinion, relatively poor advice.

                                 

                                If you use keywords instead of collections, there are a number of advantages. You can have a keyword hierarchy that is as many levels deep as you need it to be, but you cannot do this with collections. For example, here is a possible keyword hierarchy:

                                 

                                Travel

                                          Africa

                                                Tanzania

                                                           Ngorongoro

                                                                   JPGS

                                                           Dar Es Salaam

                                                                   JPGS

                                                 Kenya

                                                           Nairobi

                                                                   JPGs

                                          Europe

                                                  Liechtenstein

                                 

                                etc.

                                 

                                There are other advantages to using keywords over collections, including the fact that the keyword information can be written to the file at export, while collection information cannot. Also, there are many more search tools in Lightroom, and outside of Lightroom, to help you find photos with certain keywords, and fewer search tools in Lightroom to help you search your collections, and no search tools outside of Lightroom to find your collections. This is important, for example, if you send photos to someone else, if they have keywords, then the other person receives the keywords while if you use collections, the other person will not know what collections they were in.

                                 

                                I also don't see the point of specifically putting the JPGs in a special folder/collection/keyword, that seems like overkill since once you go to any one of those keywords, it's easy to filter out either the JPGs or the RAWs, if you want. Adding JPGs to your collection list, or adding JPGs to your keywords list, just makes the list twice as long.

                                 

                                I also don't see the point of having the exported JPGs in your catalog, that just takes up more screen space in the Library Module and gives you two photos with identical appearance in the Library Module. I only export when the photos are needed for some external purpose (in other words, needed outside of Lightroom) and these exports are temporary and should be deleted when their usefulness is zero, as you can always re-create the exact same JPG by exporting again.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                  FCCSBob Level 1

                                  Bob, here are my ideas/solutions compiled in MS one note. Still re-watching, but my wife struggles with the database, and this system will help. I hope. Once every so often I have to find he images all over our PC'S. Kelby's recommendations for imaging and back-up are based on his MAC OS.

                                   

                                  Simplified LR Catalog Storage-photos only: unedited images

                                  1. All original photos on one external drive (SSD)
                                  2. Back-up external drive-exact duplicate- HDD cloned weekly(ViseVersa)
                                  3. Cloud photo drive Back-up-Backblaze

                                  MY PHOTOS

                                  1. Only one photo folder i.e.- Bob Photo
                                  2. Within photo folder organize Topics by category of what you shoot

                                  Animals

                                  Buildings

                                  Competition

                                  Events

                                  Family

                                  Friends

                                  Gardens

                                  Landscapes

                                  Machines

                                  Macro

                                  Nature

                                  National Parks

                                  Other

                                  People

                                  Sports

                                  Training

                                  Travel

                                  Washington

                                   

                                  Inside Topics-photo shoot (year if you want, but metedata search will already give you the date)

                                  Ireland, NW Trek , etc.- Then : All,Picks,Select

                                   

                                  • Collection sets mimic my photos folder, add Competition as Smart Collection USING COLORS
                                  • PSA/TPS/FAIR COULD INCLUDE STAR RATINGS FOR ACCEPTANCES
                                  • Drag folders into Collections Sets to create the collections for editing
                                  • Save metadata on all photo's-side car for smaller selection filters(Photo Drive-All Photos-Right Click-Save Metadata
                                  • Migration Import does not save picks. you can select all picks then keyword as picks, then add. saves any work. Applies only to original import process

                                  Import new photo shoot

                                  • Add to collections/create new collections as needed, with much thought. Other works in most cases.
                                  • Use descriptive names-TPS Lemay 2017
                                  • NO key wording
                                  • Add All,Picks,Select to each new folder
                                  • sort your import for Picks- can be revisited as many times as needed by using All collection-new techniques, software, etc
                                  • Sort Picks for Select when ready
                                    • Star or color rating system smart collection
                                  • 14. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                    dj_paige Level 9
                                    1. All original photos on one external drive (SSD)

                                    This is fine if they all fit on one external drive. What if they don't fit? Also, there's no need to put photos on an SSD, this is awfully expensive disk space for photos, and you will not benefit from the extra speed of the SSD because Lightroom doesn't work this way.

                                     

                                    Collection sets mimic my photos folder, add Competition as Smart Collection USING COLORS

                                    I don't see a value in this. If you want a structure that mimics your folders, use your folders. You gain nothing by having a second set of structures that mimic your folders, but it sure takes a lot of work to create this second set of structures.

                                     

                                    Migration Import does not save picks. you can select all picks then keyword as picks, then add. saves any work. Applies only to original import process

                                    I don't understand this at all.

                                     

                                    • Use descriptive names-TPS Lemay 2017
                                    • NO key wording

                                    Keywording is the most powerful organizing tool in Lightroom. This is explained above, I think the idea of not using keywords is a huge mistake. The idea of descriptive names also is the opposite of what I do. All description goes into metadata, not into folder names or file names.

                                    • 15. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                      FCCSBob Level 1

                                      SSD's also provide the scratch disk, Aren't mandatory, but if you can afford it.... Kelby used WD Ultra. The Samsing T3 weighs practically nothing and you can store a gazillion images on 2TB. Not a good system for a stock photographer, or a couple of other categories. Just a good system for those who have lost track of catalogs, or actual images. You really need to see why he developed a simplified system to understand the audience. When you finish, you just close the folders so you don't movr them anymore, usually done accidently, but not always.

                                      • 16. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                        dj_paige Level 9

                                        Yes, Kelby's system is designed to be so EASY that you avoid making use of the power of Lightroom. In Kelby's system, you don't even learn the power of Lightroom. I bought Lightroom to as many of it's features as I want, not to stay away from it's features.

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                          FCCSBob Level 1

                                          Yes, I agree that you and those users who are probably happy with the powers of LR or Bridge, neither want nor need a simplified approach. I found this thread on Adobe, but it probably needs to be in KelbyOne. Heirloom Bob is probably struggling with the same issues as my wife, not power users. Kelby has the staff and knowledge to help all level users. Some people like browsers like AB, others like the database system.

                                          • 18. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                            dj_paige Level 9

                                            And yet, you can have a very simple workflow using keywords — if you want — and then slowly grow towards more powerful uses from that starting point. Kelby's students don't learn this.

                                            • 19. Re: Moving to Collection Sets and Collections
                                              FCCSBob Level 1

                                              There are many other LR  training series and books from Kelby from the original PS through ACC.  Heirloom Bob's question hasn't been answered yet. I'll stop posting.