17 Replies Latest reply on Dec 17, 2016 4:20 PM by Roei Tzoref

    Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!

    pavl2010 Level 1

      Hey ,

       

      this is annoying and I would like to know what and why this makes sense to the developer Team

      and to the users of After Effects.

       

      1. Put some markers on a clip that you are going to edit in AE.

      2. Then go on and split the layer

      3. You will end up with tons of markers you don´t need because they are located ahead in the timeline.

       

      This is one of my favorite annoying features that i can't deactivate.

      Anybody around that can explain me the makes generating I don't need?

       

      Is there some kind of AE voodoo behind this?

       

      but the best is!

      You can´t select delete them! You have to do it one by one .... ******

      There is no List where you can select delete then.

       

      This is my favorite annoying feature for today.

       

      What is yours?

       

      Bildschirmfoto 2016-12-15 um 13.11.27.png

        • 1. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
          Mylenium Most Valuable Participant

          There's nothing wrong. Layers are container representations of an items properties, not the actual source item itself. What if you decide to extend the layer durations again? I'd bet you'd be the first to complain if AE didn't retain your precious markers and keyframes then. You simply have a wrong concept of the paradigm/ UI metaphor and are using AE as an editing tool, which first and foremost it is not. Hence your workflow is to blame. I'm not saying that things are perfect and  being able to marquee-select and mass edit markers has long been on everyone's list, but it's an imperfect world and we will have to wait for it a bit longer...

           

          Mylenium

          • 2. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
            Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

            1. Put some markers on a clip that you are going to edit in AE.

            this could be the first problem - you are editing in a software that is not intended for editing. you can edit in Ae, but it's hard and at most times inefficient. especially if all you do is manipulate time (googled what zeitverzerrung means...) you will have a much easier time doing all of this in Premiere

             

            3. You will end up with tons of markers you don´t need because they are located ahead in the timeline.

            the markers are duplicated with your layer, can't imagine how this could work any different.

             

            a few options for creating markers that could maybe help you:

            1.you can create markers in the composition bar if you want, instead of the layer and this way you won't have a marker on each layer.

            2.you can create a dummy layer like a null and create your markers there as a reference where to cut your image. this way only one layer has the markers

            3. you can delete all the markers later because you don't need them anymore right?

            You can´t select delete them! You have to do it one by one .... ******

            if you want to delete all the markers is to right click on any of the markers while the layer or layers are selected and chose delete all markers

            if you want to selectively delete a marker you can hover over it and press ctrl/cmd and a scissor icon will appear and once you click it will delete the marker

             

            I would agree that a way to delete all markers that are outside the layer's duration is a useful feature. if you have a suggestion on how things should work, after you exhausted all the possibility by reading the relevant help files:Layer markers and composition markers in After Effects  , you can ask for it here: Feature Request/Bug Report Form

            • 3. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
              pavl2010 Level 1

              Hey Roei Tzoref,

               

              always learning something from you! Thanxs a lot.

               

              I am doing an editing and entering new text in a "clean version"  from a

              Version that was produced in another language.

              To skip the process of doing this with text edit and copy and paste I have a

              comp of 2800 x 1080 , we're my reference are place side by side.

               

              It´s the only way I found to keep things in sync and prevuing the text.

               

              I am not sure if you can do this in premiere. But I know that I can do this in

              AE.

               

              So basically that´s why I stick with AE.

               

              But after the Project I will give PP a shot.

               

              2. But don´t you think that a listing of alle the Markers would be great?

              In Avid Media Composer this is solved very good.

              different markers with different colors and a list so you can select them from the list.

              very nice.

               

              Bildschirmfoto 2016-12-16 um 12.31.06.png

               

              • 4. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                Gutter-Fish Level 4

                A simple conditional loop in the split command could fix this or create the possibility to change the behavior.  But the team can't be bothered with little practical conveniences as they are busy changing the shape of interface buttons, the icons that represent file types and integrating advertising into the start-up screen.   As Adobe recently stated with regard to their latest update, they're not focusing on little sparklies.   It's part of the "New Truth" or what Oxford's English Dictionary calls "Post Truth".   Just say it and it is true.

                • 5. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                  Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  So I see a fifteen minute timeline in your screenshot:

                  Screen Shot 2016-12-16 at 5.31.35 AM.png

                  But I don't see any keyframes or indications of what's going on in each layer. I'm guessing, because most of the layers in the screenshot are just text that you are using some text animators and maybe doing some position and opacity animations. Even if every one of the text layers had a completely unique animation applied to it so that the letters were flying in from all kinds of different directions (and that would drive most viewers crazy) so there was no repeatable text animation I would be breaking this comp up into smaller comps that cover about one sentence of dialogue and then I would assemble the whole thing in a NLE like Premiere Pro. You'll find that it takes way less time.

                   

                  I do work all the time that has some kind of a graphic and a bunch of changing text. You can position elements, animate position, scale, opacity and a bunch of other things inside Premiere Pro and end up with a much simpler timeline that is easier to edit. Even if you have a bunch of similar animate on text animations you can use dynamic linked AE comps inside Premiere Pro and edit the text right in the timeline. The text animations, like words build up from the baseline or words fly in from the left can be edited and changed right inside PPro. This is also something that I do all the time. If I had a 15 minute video that was originally created using dynamically linked text templates from AE and I had 100 of these layers to change to a different language I would just duplicate the sequence in Premiere Pro, then use the text editing tools in PPro to change the language from English to Spanish (done that about  6 times in the last year) and I'd be done with the project in a couple of yours max.

                   

                  I would seriously consider rethinking your workflow, especially if you have a lot of this kind of work to do. Working efficiently is always a better idea. If pressed I can knock out a 20 minute video for a client that is just text and graphics in a day or two. Using your method, and judging from your screenshot, it would take me three or four days and changes would be a nightmare.

                  • 6. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                    Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                    hey Glad to help.

                     

                    if all you do is insert text, this will be very easy to do in Premiere.Ae is weak on editing as you can see each layer needs it's own track.

                     

                    about referencing another video while you edit, composite:I just use a setup where my reference is smaller and in the corner, this way I am able to see both at the same time. you can do this in premiere on in Ae.

                     

                    Premiere

                     

                    Ae

                    this is usually enough for my purposes. I would usually set the reference footage as a guide layer so it won't render by unintentionally.  if I need an absolute match I will set it at 100%, tint it, and set it's opacity low and lock it. there are also ways to work with synced windows showing different layers too if you need to see it full size side by side in Ae and Premiere too I bet (I don't use Premiere much).

                     

                    But don´t you think that a listing of alle the Markers would be great?

                    seems you are comparing an editing software to a compositing software. Premiere has this but and this seems like an edit function that should be in an editing software. if you feel this should be in Ae too you can try and submit a feature request. maybe you should refresh your premiere skills because Pr and Ae work pretty well together.

                     

                    still if you feel this would be useful to Ae users too, submit away

                    • 7. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                      pavl2010 Level 1

                      Hey Roei,

                       

                      thanxs for the tip.

                       

                      the problem was, that the videomaterial I got is of very bad quality.

                      And I had to make several copies of the footage to scale the text in the original clip

                      to know , when and what kind of text is written.

                      I know that in a normal production workflow I would also go an "edit" first and then

                      do the text and the other stuff. (it was not only text. there where also parts with insert

                      and other stuff to fix or to eliminate.)

                       

                      to keep it short. It maybe not the best choice of tool , but for me it severed to things.

                      I could do it in one tool without switching in-between. And without using an additional

                      text editor.

                       

                      and last but not least there is an "edit detection" script in AE which helps to sort the

                      edits. And I could not find anything that does the job in Premiere. (magnum ae-scripts) 

                       

                      And last but not least. What made it tricky was that the "edits" where not equal.

                      The german version and the english version differs in time and animations.

                       

                      So I hope everyone of you will have a nice weekend!

                       

                      thanxs Peter

                      • 8. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                        Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                        thanks for sharing your workflow. magnum always looked useful to me but never used it. scene detection is a good idea for a feature request in premiere. if you had to do more than place text, like patch a few things and create some other compositing stuff then yes - Ae is a good tool for it and it can edit so if that works for you it's all good. as for scaling the reference footage, you could click on it twice to reveal the layer window for this footage and now you have a reference window in full frame that runs the timeline along side your composite. you can magnify to your hearts content and compare while both timelines are in sync. to do this in premiere requires a multicam setup I believe, seems it's actually easier in Ae.

                        • 9. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                          pavl2010 Level 1

                          the multicam setup could do this!

                          yes this is a very good idea. I´ll check this.

                           

                          Magnum 3 from Lloyd Alvarez is very good.

                          If you need to reedit clips that you don´t have access to the timeline

                          it´s perfect. Also if you like to analyze edits it´s great.

                           

                          i´ll keep you informed if I found a way to do it in PP.

                           

                          thanxs and

                           

                          I guess I posted it on the premiere feature request, but it would help

                          if more user ask for this feature.

                          • 10. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                            Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                            I guess I posted it on the premiere feature request, but it would help

                            if more user ask for this feature.

                            here's another one: Auto Detect Cuts

                            • 11. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                              pavl2010 Level 1

                              yes, but this concludes to the workflow of going first to AE > Magnum > Premiere > AE

                               

                              everything good as long as you are working alone on one project.

                               

                              but what if you have several projects and you need to edit and compose them in a team.

                               

                              I guess I started from this post.

                               

                              And for me it does´t make sense not to have a "scene detection" if it´s possible.

                               

                              If you start editing what´s the first thing you do?

                               

                              I edited what other people had edited. I rearranged edits and composed new sequences.

                              I edited director reels and when I first had to edit a project from scratch I thought:

                              Uh this is something complete different to what I was doing for one year.

                               

                              Analyzing the work other people do is the most important tool to learn something.

                              And one tool is "scene detection".

                               

                              What do you think?

                              • 12. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                pavl2010 Level 1

                                I found a link to lynda :

                                 

                                 

                                Using automatic scene detection

                                 

                                speedgrade has a scene detection ...

                                 

                                but there is no linking anymore to speedgrade from premiere.

                                • 13. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                  Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                                  I think most users edit a footage that is not "pre-edited" and that's why this feature is probably not there yet. if you own the footage, you are supposed to have the source edit too. still many cases where you get videos and the company hiring you prefers to just send you the finished edit and tell you - hey work with this. also, in today's social media mashing up different clips that are already edited and separating it again for preparation to do something else with it  is very common (for example the trump hilary spoof videos, someone had to separate the scenes from a footage he does not own but made a whole other thing from it. it's surprising why this is not available for premiere... I usually just cut it myself manually and not even use Magnum

                                   

                                  so yeah - scene detection would be very nice

                                  • 14. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                    pavl2010 Level 1

                                    hey,

                                     

                                    when I explore new things I also do the editing myself, because otherwise I don´t get into a flow.

                                    But when it comes to jobs and it´s about speed, I just like to get the job done and forget it.

                                    The other thing is, that sometime even if you own the material you get to the point that you need

                                    to reedit something that is "composed" and then scene detection is the key.

                                     

                                    I checked premiere an you can actually edit and prepare the footage there.

                                     

                                    Bildschirmfoto 2016-12-17 um 16.50.15.png

                                     

                                    these are 3 streams and different scales. So it works without multicam . But with multicam you just

                                    stick with one layer in the timeline. And I don't know how AE deals with the multicam stream.

                                    Have you experience with this. I did this a lot an Avid but Premiere feels a bit clumsy with multicam as it does with

                                    trimming to. I am not feeling comfortable with these until now. But ask me in a year.

                                     

                                    So you are both right! It´s better to do this in Premiere and then transfer to AE.

                                    And with this old "scene detection" it would be an easy job.

                                     

                                    But there is one last issue: Last project in premiere I had so many crashes that I can´t even count them.

                                    I hope the 2017 version is "more" stable.... And to the adobe team, if you are listening:

                                     

                                    stability is the most important feature. and I request it ;-) more then scene detection.

                                     

                                    nice forum here.

                                     

                                    cheers Peter

                                    • 15. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                      Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                                      And I don't know how AE deals with the multicam stream. Have you experience with this.

                                      what do you mean exactly?

                                       

                                      Premiere feels a bit clumsy with multicam as it does with trimming to.

                                      never done this myself. actually researched this for the purpose of this thread to see how is it possible like Ae to open another layer in the composited timeline with synced timelines layer vs composite. I would read and watch experienced authors tutorials before trying to do this intuitively. Premiere is quite intuitive (Ae is not really) but still there's a point where you need to know how to do this fast and properly. I am still learning premiere from time to time but not enough.

                                       

                                      Last project in premiere I had so many crashes that I can´t even count them. I hope the 2017 version is "more" stable.... And to the adobe team, if you are listening

                                      actually I can't remember having a crash on premiere. but I do pretty thin projects to none in Premiere. if you have trouble try the folks at the premiere forum. maybe it's something to do with GPU too since Premiere uses it a lot so make sure it is up to date.

                                       

                                      stability is the most important feature.

                                      I agree.

                                      • 16. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                        pavl2010 Level 1

                                        And I don't know how AE deals with the multicam stream. Have you experience with this.

                                        what do you mean exactly?

                                         

                                        if you have multicam setup in PP and then switch to AE. Does this work without any conflicts?

                                        With multicam things can get very complicated.

                                         

                                        Let´s say you don´t use it as multicam with 9 or 16 cameras, but you use it to make a music video.

                                        And for this music video you shot like 40 or 60 sync tracks.

                                         

                                        those sync tracks could be reside in a multicam timeline. (On Avid I did this very often)

                                         

                                        you end up with one layer that would have 40 layer (24 on avid) and then you with to the

                                        shot you like. (same happens if you edit dialog and you have 34 takes of the same scene)

                                         

                                        Now this always works very good in theory, but after setting up the project and the syncs

                                        and having done the editing and everything. If you now switch to AE.

                                         

                                        Does this transfer without errors. Because if there are errors you can´t fix them in AE.

                                        It´s not responsive enough to do this. And there come my wish to have it more responsive.

                                         

                                        you never can exclude errors.

                                         

                                        Premiere feels a bit clumsy with multicam as it does with trimming to.

                                        never done this myself. actually researched this for the purpose of this thread to see how is it possible like Ae to open another layer in the composited timeline with synced timelines layer vs composite. I would read and watch experienced authors tutorials before trying to do this intuitively. Premiere is quite intuitive (Ae is not really) but still there's a point where you need to know how to do this fast and properly. I am still learning premiere from time to time but not enough.

                                         

                                        I agree, and then there are things you won´t learn if your not told, because they come with experience of the group of

                                        people that use the app every day and in tough conditions. under pressure and deadline.

                                        I found that this separates the good from the not so good tools.

                                         

                                        Last project in premiere I had so many crashes that I can´t even count them. I hope the 2017 version is "more" stable.... And to the adobe team, if you are listening

                                        actually I can't remember having a crash on premiere. but I do pretty thin projects to none in Premiere. if you have trouble try the folks at the premiere forum. maybe it's something to do with GPU too since Premiere uses it a lot so make sure it is up to date.

                                         

                                        I had a project with mixed material : RAW files , Quicktime HD . And after the rough cut, premiere began to get unstable.

                                        But at that point I could not change the tool anymore. So I am looking forward to the 2017 version. And I hope its stable.

                                         

                                        stability is the most important feature.

                                        I agree.

                                        • 17. Re: Splitt Layer Markers duplicate for ever!
                                          Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                                          Does this transfer without errors. Because if there are errors you can´t fix them in AE.

                                          It´s not responsive enough to do this. And there come my wish to have it more responsive.

                                          it appears you are implying that you need your full edits in Ae . there's not need to transfer your edits from premiere to Ae. it works the other way around - you always edit and assemble your shots in Premiere and if there's VFX shots you take just the clips you need to Ae and render them to use them back in premiere. After Effects is for creating shots and you work per shot - when you are done you render into premiere and replace to offline clip. same workflow with any NLE for that matter.

                                           

                                          more about completing the circle here:

                                          Adobe Premiere Pro to After Effects Workflow - Tutorial - YouTube