11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 7, 2017 5:23 PM by Kevin-Monahan

    Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition

    arminw50285596

      Hy there,

       

      I do have some problems with some compositions in after effects. The clip itself ist a pretty simple map animation with some writings in it. After a first overview over a certain region, the animation begins to zoom in to the map and increases an area of interest while the writings, which mark some POI on the map, become smaller during the zoom.

      e.g: map increases from 10% to 50% while the writings scale down from 50% to 10%.

       

      The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

       

      As a note: I tried any possible changes in the composition settings as well as in the rendering settings. I made the fonts mainly in Photoshop and worked with PSD files, but I tried as well to work with some vector based AI files, which did'nt make any changes. I even tried all sorts of variations: bigger/smaller writings, different font, different lengths of the effects etc.

       

      I would be happy about any possible solutions and ideas, as I'm trying to solve that problem already since some days!

       

      In the meantime, a happy new year to all of you!

        • 1. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          arminw50285596 wrote:

           

          ... The clip itself ist a pretty simple map animation with some writings in it. After a first overview over a certain region, the animation begins to zoom in to the map and increases an area of interest while the writings, which mark some POI on the map, become smaller during the zoom.

          I assume you designed the move this way. I also assume that you don't want the text to look like it was actually printed on the map.

          The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

          I'm not really sure what you are talking about but I'm guessing that the edges of the details look like they are not moving smoothly. This could be caused by fine detail moving at a speed that is interacting with the frame rate and causing Judder. This is a common problem with things like title rolls and slow pans over details. Cinematographers shooting film at 24 or 25 fps have known about these "critical panning speeds" for about 100 years. Folks that grew up with interlaced video didn't have the same problem because the frame rate of the interlaced fields was twice that high. If that is your problem then please read these articles from the FAQ on this forum. FAQ: Why does horizontal motion stutter (judder) in my movies, such as during pans?

           

          If that is not the problem then you could be seeing compression artifacts. The problem that I have in helping you is that I don't know exactly what you mean by doubling-glittering effect. Without seeing the rendered video at full resolution and full frame at full frame rate you cannot accurately judge the final quality of your product. IOW, you can't really tell what your animation will look like unless you play it back full size and full speed and on the device it is intended to be viewed on.

          • 2. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
            arminw50285596 Level 1

            Hello Mr. Gerard, and thank you for your detailed answer,

             

            I also assume that you don't want the text to look like it was actually printed on the map.

             

            It probably could look that way, I think that would'nt make any difference for me. But I add two pics which show a little bit the dynamic of the animation.

            Map_01.jpg

             

            The first pic, shows the starting frame of the animation, while the second shows the map more orless a 2 seconds later.

            Map_02.jpg

             

            During this animation short animation of 3 seconds (after reading your answer I tried different speeds up to 7-8 seconds, which actually did'nt change anything) I have a judder/jitter/distortion effect in the comp, which looks actually like this:

             

            Map_03.jpg

             

            IOW, you can't really tell what your animation will look like unless you play it back full size and full speed and on the device it is intended to be viewed on.

             

            I watched it on some reference devices (SD and Full HD) and the distortion was even more visible on those monitors.

             

            Kind Regards

            • 3. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
              Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional
              The problem I have now is, that after rendering the composition and importing it in avid or watching it on the QT-player, it appears some sort of doubling-glittering effect, especially on the writings, but even on the map itself.

               

              this is interlacing

              if you are exporting interlaced footage it will look like this when viewed without de-interlacing. on a broadcast monitor it will look fine, on a computer monitor with a player that does not deinterlace it will look like this. you can deinterlace temporarily with VLC

               

               

              here's some information about it from former Ae's product manager Todd Kopriva:

              • 4. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                arminw50285596 Level 1

                Hello Mr. Tzoref,

                 

                Thank you for your answer. The problem we have, is that even on our broadcastmonitors, which we always use to ensure to have the best quality for our movies, the problem still exists.

                 

                anyway, I attach a link to the WeTransfer file, so you can have a look for your own.

                 

                WeTransfer

                 

                Kind regards

                • 5. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                  Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                  I downloaded your footage. Ae has interpreted it correctly as separate fields upper fields first

                  other than the strobing that is caused by fast movement (if you can,  use 30fps you will have better results), high contrast (if you can, you could lower the contrast if that is an option, maybe use a different drop shadow) and also some motion blur (that will definitely help) - it looks fine. all of this information is in the document Rick has generously produced for all of us.

                   

                  No deinterlacing

                   

                  deinterlaced.gif

                  with deintrelacing

                  001.gif

                  motion blur

                  blur.gif

                  • 6. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                    arminw50285596 Level 1

                    Hello,

                    i've tried now all of it, but none really made big changes to my output material. There is still this noisy jitter/distortion and I can't really figure out from where it could come from other than the things we discussed already

                    • 8. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                      arminw50285596 Level 1

                      It's quiet hard to say. The motion blur is definitely recognizable  as an effect, but it still seems to me, that the letter (especially the B) is jittering, especially focusing on the center part of it.

                      Don't even feel certain anymore if its possible to get rid of that sort of noise in such compositions.

                      • 9. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                        Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                        maybe you are overthinking it. I have been doing animated maps for many years, some from zooming from earth view and finishing the movement up to a city and never had an issue with jittering. I work in 25fps as well. here's an example with mb: Map_54.mp4 - Google Drive 

                         

                        I sometimes even don't use motion blur. you can use less motion blur if you want and:

                        1. choose another typeface that is more bold

                        2. try different contrast settings

                        • 10. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                          arminw50285596 Level 1

                          Maybe I am. I will try it with another font, which is a little bit bolder again, as it is the only thing I have'nt try till now. Anyway, thanks for your help and you patience

                          • 11. Re: Doubling effect especially on writings after rendering composition
                            Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                            Hi ArminW,

                            Looks like you had quite a project there. What did you end up doing to solve your issue? Can you mark any of Roei's answers as the correct one? Let us know.

                             

                            Thanks,
                            Kevin