20 Replies Latest reply on Mar 16, 2017 9:47 AM by JJMack

    Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.

    JJMack Most Valuable Participant

      In the latest Windows 10 Preview build 15002 Microsoft enhanced their Display scaling.  You can now use Windows scaling with Application Like Photoshop if you want to. So you  will  not be stuck with Adobe UI 2X scaling.  You can scale to any lower resolution l 1.25x 1.5xx 2X etc.  You can set that up in the shortcut that you  use to start Photoshop using the comparability Tab  Override high DPI scaling behavior you will not longer have to modify Your Windows registry and add external manifest file for Photoshop.

      Capture.jpg

        • 1. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
          Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

          Now that is useful information JJ.  Where did you pick it up?

           

          [EDIT]  Is this the way to get the build you are referring to?

          • 2. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
            JJMack Most Valuable Participant

            Yes it on the fast ring now. I installed that yesterday.  There are issues with Preview builds and some feature incomplete but they have been quite stable.  I don't do too much these days and have not had any major problem.  Windows broke Acrobat reader for a few builds and Home group was also broken as was regedit.  Good old netbious network keep working so I was able to get around the broken Homegroup. Acrobat reader works again so is homegroup and regedit was fixed and enhanced.  Areas Microsoft is working on I don't use like Edge and Cortana via mic.  Microsoft is working hard on them and both Edge and Cortana have been enhanced they keep tweaking windows UI.  I  only use Photoshop, e-mail the web and son editors. The is an additional screen capture shortcut that allows to to crop what is captured to the clipboard.

            Capture.jpg

            • 3. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
              davide98462475

              So how do I get to this properties window to make this change?

              • 4. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                davide98462475 Level 1

                I found it, but I don't see where it will let me make the change.

                • 5. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I think we should emphasize here that accurate image display is still one screen pixel per one image pixel.

                   

                  Is that how this works, or does the image window scale as well, to 125%, 150% and so on? That won't look pretty, and will probably generate a rush of new posts, along the lines of "blurry image in Photoshop"...

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                    JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                    Do you have Windows 10 Preview build\15002 or 15014 installed? use winver to see what version of windows 10 you are running.

                    Capture.jpg

                    • 7. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      It's not a question of what I have (I'm still on 7), but how the scaling works.

                       

                      What does it do to the image vs. the UI? Does it scale both, or just the UI?

                      • 8. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                        JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                        Scaling is scaling the big difference between Windows Scaling and Adobe Scaling is Adobe does all image scaling and you see your image actual pixels on your at you display at your display's actual high ppi resolution. When you force Windows scaling  onto Photoshop. Windows tell Photoshop your display has fewer pixels then it actually has. When Photoshop scale you image to 100%  you images actual pixels are displayed by Photoshop for the number of pixels it has been told your display has. However, Windows Scale them to a lower resolution to fill your actual display.

                         

                        When you use Photoshop scaling you see your image actual pixels. However the pixels you see are usually not the images correct resolution the pixels have your display's resolution not the images documents resolution. You would only see you image at the correct size if you document resolution  is the same resolution your display has.

                         

                        Resolution define the image pixels size.  Printers can print different size pixels and they take a long time to print them. Displays can not change the pixel size they display they have one pixel size but can display many image per second they can display video.  You would not enjoy viewing a video on the fastest printed.

                         

                        IMO the are many issues in Adobe 2x UI.

                        • 9. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                          davide98462475 Level 1

                          Windows 10 pro

                          Version  1607(OS  10.0.14393 Build 14393

                          • 10. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                            JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                            Windows scale what the Application displays.  Windows does not distinguish between UI and Image other than Desktop wallpaper. Window wallpaper and windows 10 handles wallpaper differently then windows 7.  When you tile and image across your displays not scaling is done.  It your Displays have different resolution it is up to you to create the image file with the different resolution required. But how the tiling is done changed between Windows 7 and Windows 10.  I had to change the way I created wallpaper images.  Here is a Picture of my three displays the one in the middle resolution is 185ppi the other two have a 100ppi resolution. I follow the picture with a couple screen so you can see the pixels.  Windows scaling is also a display by display thing where tiled wallpaper is not scaled. Adobe scaling is a global setting all displays will be for UI elements.  There are many issues in Adobe UI scaling.  I do not use it. Photoshop does not use windows so though I have set my center display to be scale.  Tiled wallpaper will not be scaled nor will anything Photoshop displays.  To get around Photoshop scaling problems I use different resolution displays. I keep Photoshop UI one my 100ppi displays except for my images which I edit in floating windows on my 185ppi display,  The only Photoshop UI elements on the display are un the images window frames. Rulers and window frame image info.

                            DellT3620Displays.jpg

                             

                            DellT3620.jpg

                            • 11. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                              davide98462475 Level 1

                              I disabled the display scaling and set the interface to 100%. It's a little better, but it's still smaller than my tired old eyes would like. Sure wish Adobe would get it together.

                              • 12. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                First of all, a slight brain short-circuit there, I replied to a post directed at david, not me. Sorry about that.

                                 

                                Anyway....

                                 

                                It's like I thought - the image window gets scaled along with the UI. Just as long as we understand what's happening here. So this is not a "solution", but yet another workaround (or hack if you will).

                                 

                                Scaling a Photoshop image to 150% will be blurry - even more so because it's not even done by Photoshop, but by the OS/video card. With 200%, you can just treat four screen pixels as one. With 150%, there's no way around sub-pixel resampling. We all know what that means.

                                 

                                We absolutely need to stay focused here: Image scaling is not the same thing as UI scaling. They are two different things, and need to be treated separately. It's important that people understand this, otherwise general confusion will just take over.

                                 

                                OTOH, maybe this makes it possible for Adobe to provide 150% scaling in the UI, while leaving the image 1:1. Let's hope so.

                                • 13. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                  JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                  The override dpi feature is only in two Wiybdows 10 Previes builds 15002 and 15014

                                  • 14. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                    JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                    While there is round when scaling factor is not a multiple of display resolution at 2x  4 display pixels are use to scale a document pixel. At 1x 1 display pixel is used to scale 1 document pixel.  All the pixels are square.  The image is correct when the pixels are the correct size.  If a 1x 1px scale using bigger or smaller sized pixels is accurate would  not 2x 2x2px scale also be accurate or a 3x 3x3px scale.  Even with rounding scaling is accurate but has artifacts. When Photoshop scales an image to any sale other the 100% there are many artifacts for Photoshop does it quickly for performance.

                                    • 15. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      OK. So let me visualize.

                                       

                                      Here's one image pixel mapped to one screen pixel. That's Photoshop 100%:

                                      pixel1_B.png

                                       

                                      And here's 200%. No problems here (aside from wasting screen resolution):

                                      pixel2_B.png

                                       

                                      But how do you scale to 150%? You can't do it like this:

                                      pixel3_B.png

                                       

                                      In fact, the only way is by sub-pixel resampling, something like this:

                                      pixel4_B.png

                                       

                                      So my point is - if this is how you would advise people to do it, we'll get a flood of user complaints. Right here in the forum. <My Photoshop displays blurry! Fix it Adobe! Adobe sucks!>

                                       

                                      The only possible way to treat this, is to separate UI and image. But as I said, maybe this was what Adobe needed, to be able to scale the UI but leave the image. Let's see what happens in the next PS update.

                                      1 person found this helpful
                                      • 16. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                        Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                        JJMack wrote:

                                        DellT3620Displays.jpg

                                        What game is that JJ?  Have you found the magic bowl of Jellied Ells and got the Cockney Wizard to show you the secret tunnel under the Tower of London?  You have to use Cockney Rhyming Slang to release the cache of Derry & Toms (smart bombs), which will wipe out the evil Beefeaters before they destroy all the tourists.  Then you can sit down with a nice cup of Rosie Lee, and get your head down for a Feather & Flip (Kip).

                                        • 17. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                          JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                          Tanqueray No.Ten is more my cup of tee but Beefeaters with cocktail onions will do. I was on a train in Austria on a ski trip and did not know what language some of the passenger were using till they started singing Maxwell's Hammer then I realize it was Cockney I would need more than a Wizard to understand. As for I just use a Photoshop action with a little scripting thrown into the mix.

                                           

                                          A Feather & Flip(kip) is that something like Fish and Chips or some more  Cockney I don't understand.

                                          • 18. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                            JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                            If you want a good scaling you would need to use a good interpolation method for the image contents and that would take some time. Look at Adobe quick image scaling as you zoom lower and above 100%. scale.  The scaling  at some percentages is quite bad. There are time constraints to consider. You want Photoshop and windows to have a quick response time don't you.

                                            • 19. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                              knossu

                                              Actually, it looks ok sharpness-wise, I am interested in using it. My problem is that, with this option enabled photoshop looks like this:

                                              1.jpg

                                              Looks like work area don't scale as ui does.

                                              Did you happen to encounter this problem?

                                              • 20. Re: Windows 10 Preview Build 15002 Display scaling.
                                                JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                                That look like a CC 2017 problem where Photoshop looses its Image window frame at times... Note: there is no frame around your image window in your screen capture. No Frame no tile no rulers.  CC 2014 seems the be the Photoshop version with the least amount of problems.