23 Replies Latest reply on Jan 22, 2017 11:31 AM by D Fosse

    From Lightroom to Photoshop

    dtkorab

      I purchased a new PC with Windows 10 and installed Adobe Lightroom and Adobe Photoshop without problem.  Previously I was processing photographs on a Windows 7 platform and a wide gamut monitor without problem.  Now, with the new PC (same monitor), when I send images from LR to PS through LR external editor, the images are much darker in PS.  On saving back to LR they remain dark.  I have spent > 20 hours trying to resolve the issue, checking color spaces, reinstalling programs etc. to no avail.  Also, in the fray, I checked the calibration of my monitor with Color Munki and found I needed updated SW.  Updated the SW and recalibrated.  How can I again achieve consistence between LR and PS.  Please help, thank you Darlene

        • 1. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
          Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

          Could be a corrupted monitor profile.,Did you profile the monitor since you started using the new computer?

          • 2. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
            dtkorab Level 1

            Thank you, I recalibrated it with X Rite Color Munki which created a profile.  Is that what you mean?

            • 3. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
              Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

              Yes. It could of gotten corrupted. Recalibrate and test.

              • 4. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                dtkorab Level 1

                LR.png

                PS.png

                 

                Okay, I recalibrated, but nothing has changed.  Top image is Lightroom, bottom image is Photoshop.

                • 5. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                  dtkorab Level 1

                  I wanted to mention that both images above are more anemic than what the screen shows!

                  • 6. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                    wobertc Adobe Community Professional

                    Do you have Photoshop Color Settings / Working Space / RGB: = ProfotoRGB ?   (the 'same' as Lightroom default)

                    • 7. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                      dtkorab Level 1

                      Here's PS Settings:

                      PS Settings.png

                      And here's LR settings:

                      LR Settings.png

                      • 8. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                        wobertc Adobe Community Professional

                        No definitive answer from me, i'm afraid- just "clutching at straws"

                         

                        Try setting Photoshop "Conversion Options / Intent: " = Perceptual.

                        See Gamut Mapping paragraphs at- Color management and color science: Introduction

                        • 9. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                          Theresa J Adobe Community Professional

                          How are you saving the jpeg image from Photoshop to share it here? I'm wondering if you are saving the jpeg without converting to sRGB, and not embedding the color profile.

                          • 10. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                            dtkorab Level 1

                            Changed Conversion Options/Intent to Perceptual and no change.  I keep trying to confirm what has changed since everything ran perfectly prior to new PC/Windows 10 platform:

                            - I maintained the same PS and LR settings.  While installing LR, I upgraded from 5.0 to 5.7.1.

                            - same Dell U3011 wide gamut monitor, except that I recalibrated with Color Munki/Display 1.0 and got very bad results.  Upgraded to 1.1.3 per X-Rite technician and results were very good.

                             

                            In the course of everything above I sidetracked to Theresa J's issue above and converted back to the previous Windows Photo Viewer.  The Photo Viewer is identical to the image as it appears in Lightroom.  I just did the screenshot which happens to effectively show the problem here in the Forum.  But the problem itself occurs long before saving the image to jpeg (actually it was png). 

                             

                            I import raw images to LR, converting to dng in the process. Then some initial global changes in LR, transferring from LR to PS using the external editor and the image is primarily much darker.

                             

                            Thank you wobertc for working with me on this.  All your "straws" make sense!

                            • 11. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                              dtkorab Level 1

                              To Theresa J, thank you!  I mentioned to wobertc above: In the course of everything above I sidetracked to Theresa J's issue above and converted back to the previous Windows Photo Viewer.  The Photo Viewer is identical to the image as it appears in Lightroom.  I just did the screenshot which happens to effectively show the problem here in the Forum.  But the problem itself occurs long before saving the image to jpeg (actually it was png).

                              • 12. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                dtkorab Level 1

                                Update, the tables have turned.  I am about to be committed to an asylum.  I changed monitor profile back to factory default.  (So much for a high end monitor.)  Now the images between PS and LR reasonably match.  Then, after export from either LR to PS, there is a huge change.  Thumbnails look okay, but each viewer really impacts the image.  Below, the Windows 10 image looks okay, but on my screen it matches the oversaturated dark Windows 7.  Then XN viewer is desaturated.  It'd be okay if the Windows 10 image below matched what I see on the screen, but it really doesn't.  I would still very much appreciate any suggestions, but now maybe it's time to get with the monitor mfr.

                                 

                                Thumbnails:

                                Thumbnails.png

                                Windows 10 Viewer below:

                                Windows 10 Photo Viewer.png

                                 

                                Windows 7 Viewer below:

                                Windows 7 Photo Viewer.png

                                XN Viewer below:

                                XN Viewer.png

                                • 13. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                  Theresa J Adobe Community Professional

                                  Are you converting to sRGB and embedding the profile when exporting the jpeg?

                                  Just for kicks, while in Photoshop go to Color Settings >Assign Setting, and choose ProPhoto which is the color space Lightroom is exporting to.

                                  • 14. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                    dtkorab Level 1

                                    Yes, converting to sRGB to save to jpeg when exporting out in LR, but I'm not seeing how to embed the profile at the same time.  Could that be somewhere other than the export menu?  And, yes, ProPhoto is chosen as the working space in PS along with embedded profiles.  I think that's what you are asking?

                                    • 15. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                      Theresa J Adobe Community Professional

                                      If you open an image without an embedded profile Photoshop will assign the default working profile. This could drastically change the look. You shared screenshots of your settings that should create embedded profiles when opening from Lightroom. I was just guessing that maybe the ProPhoto profile isn't getting embedded and photoshop is assigning sRgb instead. This would create the problems you see. But I am only guessing that this might be happening. To be absolutely sure the image is being viewed in the prophoto profile you should assign it.

                                       

                                      Got to edit, color settings, assign profile. I hope that makes sense.

                                       

                                      Theresa Jackson

                                       

                                      Sent from my iPhone

                                      • 16. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        dtkorab wrote:

                                         

                                        Previously I was processing photographs on a Windows 7 platform and a wide gamut monitor without problem. Now, with the new PC (same monitor), when I send images from LR to PS through LR external editor, the images are much darker in PS.

                                         

                                        Also, in the fray, I checked the calibration of my monitor with Color Munki and found I needed updated SW. Updated the SW and recalibrated.

                                        Windows 10 is known in many cases to assign a monitor profile that is not compatible with LR. Recalibrating the monitor should assign a new profile and fix the issue, but LR needs to be closed and restarted to load the new profile. If you've already done that and the issue remains please check your Colormunki application Preferences and make sure it is set to make ICC v2 Matrix profiles and NOT ICC v4: Profile Version ICC v2 or ICC v4

                                        • 17. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Yes, this is most likely a monitor profile issue, and note Todd's reminder above about relaunching the app when changing the profile. PS and Lr will load the system default profile at startup, and continue to use that profile until next launch.

                                           

                                          The first step is always to run a fresh calibration/profiling. The safe options for profile policy, as mentioned, is version 2, and matrix-based (not table-based). If a multi-monitor setup, make sure that the OS puts up the correct profile for each display.

                                           

                                          Note that a defective monitor profile can convert correctly from one source color space, but fail from another. It can work from sRGB in Photoshop, but fail from linear ProPhoto in ACR/Lr. Just as an example.

                                           

                                          ----------

                                           

                                          In a color managed application, the document profile is converted into the monitor profile, and these modified RGB values are fed to the monitor. Applications without color management just pass the original numbers directly to the monitor without any correction.

                                           

                                          The monitor profile has only one basic requirement: it needs to accurately describe the actual response of the monitor. This is true for any icc profile - it has to be an accurate description of the color space it represents. If the monitor profile is defective in any way, it is no longer an accurate description, and thus the application displays incorrectly.

                                           

                                          Generally, when troubleshooting these things, keep in mind that a color management chain is operating here. Verify that each link in the chain is operational, they all depend on each other:

                                          • does the file have an embedded icc profile, and is it the right one?
                                          • do you have a valid monitor profile set up at system level, and is it the correct one?
                                          • are you viewing in a color managed application that will read both these profiles and correctly convert from one into the other?
                                          • 18. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                            dtkorab Level 1

                                            Sorry for delay, down with flu.  Thank you trshaner and D Fosse.  Everything now seems to be work much better.  Thank you for taking the time.  There is one quirk still remaining, though it has no functional impact.  I uploaded images to a gallery (Pass Gallery) and the images appeared to match where it counts.  During the upload process, however, you can see thumbnails and they are way off.  That is new to me but, like I say, it falls into "don't care."  This sure has been a maddening process.  This forum really helped me. 

                                            • 19. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                              It sounds like the upload thumbnail viewer is not fully color managed. If you were using a standard gamut display the thumbnails would probably look OK since the display is close to sRGB gamut and the uploaded JPEGs are sRGB gamut. You'll need to use a fully color managed Web browser to view images on the Web with a wide gamut display.

                                               

                                              FireFox will do that when properly set to use the monitor profile. Download and install FireFox. Next type about:config in the address search bar and then click on 'I accept the risk' and scroll down to gfx_color_mangement. Locate your monitor profile and copy & paste the path as shown below along with the other settings  true and 1.

                                               

                                              • 20. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                trshaner wrote:

                                                 

                                                Locate your monitor profile and copy & paste the path as shown below

                                                 

                                                You don't need to do that - Firefox will locate and use the default display profile by itself, and the "value" field can be left blank.

                                                 

                                                ff1_1.png

                                                 

                                                However, in this case it will use the profile for the main display, regardless of the display it's actually on. So if you need it to use a secondary display profile, this might be the way to do it.

                                                 

                                                In any case, dtkorab - if you have a wide gamut monitor, this Firefox configuration is the only way to get correct colors in all scenarios. No other web browser has an equivalent to Firefox mode 1.

                                                 

                                                The significance of this setting is that it assigns sRGB to all untagged material, which in turn allows it to convert these sRGB numbers into your monitor profile. This is absolutely necessary for wide gamut units.

                                                 

                                                All other browsers drop color management for untagged material, they just pass the numbers straight through. On a wide gamut display that means oversaturation.

                                                • 21. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  D Fosse wrote:

                                                   

                                                  trshaner wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Locate your monitor profile and copy & paste the path as shown below

                                                   

                                                  You don't need to do that - Firefox will locate and use the default display profile by itself, and the "value" field can be left blank.

                                                  In older FF versions you had to enter the path manually. Thanks for the correction! I can confirm the primary display profile is used with that field left empty (default).

                                                   

                                                  D Fosse wrote:

                                                   

                                                  So if you need it to use a secondary display profile, this might be the way to do it.

                                                  Years ago I ran FireFox on two calibrated displays with an add-on called Profile Switcher. This allows creating a separate user profile for each display and manually enter the correct monitor profile path. I'm not sure if it still works with the latest version of FF.

                                                   

                                                  ProfileSwitcher :: Add-ons for Firefox

                                                  • 22. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                                    dtkorab Level 1

                                                    Gotcha, I only use Firefox.  But here's the kicker, the variables include: the new PC with Windows 10 and Color Munki Display with v. 1.3.1 software.  Same wide-gamut monitor, same Color Munki device but with earlier software, same Adobe software, etc.  Now, this Gallery is divided about half into thumbnails processed prior to PC/platform change, and the bottom half is afterwards, and after having incorporated all the above recommendations.  These thumbnails are dark, dingy and desaturated.  When opened in the actual gallery they are fine.Gallery Thumbnails.png

                                                    • 23. Re: From Lightroom to Photoshop
                                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                      dtkorab, most people mistakenly think of color management as system-wide, affecting everything equally. It does not. It is application-specific, some do it and some don't.  Some use the monitor profile and some don't.

                                                       

                                                      Showing those images is in itself irrelevant. What's relevant is what application are they displayed in, and is it color managed? Some apps are even color managed in some situations and not in others.

                                                       

                                                      Always establish at the very first - is color management actually happening here? Is the document profile honored, and the RGB numbers converted from that document profile and into the monitor profile? If in doubt, always check in applications with known color management status.

                                                       

                                                      What this looks like, the bottom half, is ProPhoto files viewed without color management.