8 Replies Latest reply on Feb 2, 2017 1:37 AM by El Wombat

    What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"

    El Wombat Level 2

      Hi Dave, hello everyone,

       

      my Q is: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid" is not clear to me, since there IS a tag already that tells the pupils not to "walk" out of the designated area, which, I thought, is the eyeball.

       

       

      Also, when I change the view of the TAGs to image, nothing indicates what or where this "size upper/lower lid" tag is located.

       

      More puzzling: Some of my eyelids have this tag, others don't, even though the name-structure is always identical…

       

       

      So please could someone explain the differences between the different tags all around the eyes…?

       

      Thank you very much for your concern and effort…

       

      Best,

      Stefan

        • 1. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
          oksamurai Employee Moderator

          The lid tags are only if you are using eyelids for your character, which isn't too common. Basically if you have top and bottom eyelids that you want to follow your own eyelids (usually this is done instead of blink), these apply. Size is a layer / artwork tag (blue), where the normal eyelid top & bottom are handle / invisible data point tags (yellow). Later this week there will be a tips episode explaining these a little more.

          • 2. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
            El Wombat Level 2

            Hi Dave,

             

            thank you once more for your lightning reply!

            The prospect of a video explaining this is wonderful!

             

            But please let me still add a couple of questions before it comes…

             

            !! If these specific questions will be dealt with in the video, which I don't know, obviously, the eyes and tags being a vast area in this programme, then please feel free to just refer to the video once more, for it's a lot of work to make it… !!

             

            The most pressing one is Question #4:

            What measures do we have to control pupil movement? (Not talking about the obvious "strength of mouse and or cam input", but about the behind the scenes tech stuff - size of eyeballs, tags, etc.)

             

             

             

            Question 1

            I am using eyelids with all of the puppets I'm working on right now.

             

            Do I get it right:

             

            If I use this tag - "size upper/lower lid" - then I don't want to use a "Blink (b!)" layer?

             

            _________________

            Question 2

            Because, what I don't really understand about this "following my own eyelids" (controlled by the camera) you mention is this: I have this now, too, don't I?

            If I blink (with my real eyes) the characters blink, too, just as when I press "b", having added "(b!)" to the blink layer in the eyegroup…

             

            What's the difference, then?

             

            ___________

             

            Question 3

             

            The difference between the tags "size left(right) upper(lower) lid" blue tag "artwork" and "left(right) upper(lower) lid" yellow tag "invisible handle / data point" is what, exactly? (I do understand the difference between an "artwork" and an "invisible data point", as the terms stand, but not in this context, sorry…

             

            ___________

             

            Question 4

             

             

            What are the measures to change eye movement (mouse or camera input, both)?

             

            - Pupil Area seems to work only for camera input for it seems to stop mouse controlled pupil movement altogether.

             

            - Size of eyelids seems to be s.th. else (which will be explained in the video…)

             

             

            _____________

             

            Suggestion:

             

            If there were more specific tooltips you would probably have less questions here in the forum and elsewhere.

            Right now all of the tooltips say: "Is controlled by behaviour this (or that)", but not what it really does.

            ______________

             

            Thank you very much… Looking forward to the video…

             

            S.

            • 3. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
              oksamurai Employee Moderator

              The character "Dude" here is a good example of eyelids: http://adobe.ly/297v7Wg (my puppet pack).

               

              This could all be clearer, I agree. The video is probably going to be too surface level for what you're digging into, but I'm still putting it together.

               

              1. I think in the latest version you can use them both, although I've never tried. If you think about it, if your eyelids were both closed it would essentially be a blink.

               

              2. Yes. See Dude above - if you squint or widen your eyes, it should translate to raising or lowering eyelids. Should work in current builds.

               

              3. So handles are invisible data points, like fixed, draggable, etc. But for any GROUP, you get a handle in the middle - which conveniently is also the origin point. Only groups have this. So in the case of the eyelid, each eyelid origin point can have handle tags applied. For size, that's not a point, those are dimensions - how big the artwork is. Bottom line - some tags care more about a yellow point, others care more about the blue rectangle around artwork. For 99% of people, the colors aren't important - whatever you select will show you the appropriate potential tags.

               

              4. Left Pupil Range and Right Pupil Range are the only tags that matter for the bounds of where the pupil can go. This should work for both camera and mouse/touch input, although there are a few bugs around this (for example, a one eyed character currently doesn't work with dragging pupils).

              • 4. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
                El Wombat Level 2

                Hi,

                 

                thank you so much!

                 

                @1 - 2: I see…

                 

                @3: I will try and get my head around your answer "3" while experimenting with the puppets. So for now, I don't fully understand, yet, but will refer to your input when I'm working again. It's too late now… ;-)

                 

                @4: I didn't put the question too well, sorry. What I meant is: How do I control the eye movement apart from the tags.

                 

                For example, I've found that the size and position of the eyeballs matter a lot, but I don't understand how this works. Right now, I'm just experimenting wildly and there are no "laws" showing up just yet: Sometimes expanding the eyeballs helps, sometimes making them smaller… I was just wondering whether anyone had experiences with this…

                • 5. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
                  oksamurai Employee Moderator

                  Yeah, the two biggest things that matter with eye control are the size of the eyeballs and the size of the pupils. If everything is set up correct, the pupils should never extend outside of the eyeballs. Not sure if you're using Illustrator but there are more eye bugs there than Photoshop currently.

                   

                  I would recommend only doing camera or only doing mouse/touch at any given time - both together can lead to unwanted issues.

                   

                  I've also found a few things to help in the past: changing from auto to contour mesh, making invisible eyeball layers to make a very specific pupil range, turning head scale off, making the eyes independent, etc.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
                    El Wombat Level 2

                    Hi Dave,

                     

                    especially this kind of experimental knowledge…

                     

                     

                    I've also found a few things to help in the past: changing from auto to contour mesh, making invisible eyeball layers to make a very specific pupil range, turning head scale off, making the eyes independent, etc.

                    …is immensely helpful!! Thank you once more!

                     

                    I will try and make invisible eyeball layers tagged "eyeball" for the range and visible ones for optics, this time without the "eyeball" tags…

                     

                    Cheers,

                    S

                    • 7. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
                      oksamurai Employee Moderator

                      If you're running into issues still, feel free to email me the .puppet for a closer look!

                      • 8. Re: What do the eye tags do, exactly? Especially "size upper/lower lid"
                        El Wombat Level 2

                        I've begun with the eye movement this time and it's looking good at the moment, but not perfect yet, so I might do just that later on today, thank you very much! Luckily, for now, it's only one puppet for the upcoming gig, not three, which gives space for more accuracy and functionality for the one puppet…