17 Replies Latest reply on Feb 15, 2017 7:32 AM by SDAgency

    Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings

    SDAgency Level 1

      Experiencing color differences between Photoshop (any version) and other apps like color managed Firefox where the sRGB is verified to display correctly (http://www.gballard.net/firefox/). Photoshop colors are all washed out but browsers are saturated. Windows Photo Viewer results look like Photoshop.

      Photoshop Color Settings set to N.America Gen Purpose 2 with Working spaces as default, in particular RGB as sRGB IE61966-2.1

      Spyder Elite colorimeter has two color profiles, one for each monitor.

      Under Windows 8.1 64 bit Color Management>Devices tab shouldn't my ICC profiles for each monitor be the ones generated by Spyder?

      How about under Windows 8.1 64 bit Color Management>AllProfiles tab> for sRGB, should that be default or Spyder?

      How about the Advanced tab> under Windows Color System Defaults?

      Once I get all those dialed in since I do mostly web work, should I just go by the sRGB view/proofing in Photoshop?

      Does that mean if I am going to print any of my photos I need a separate file version color corrected with View>Proof>Monitor RGB temporarily on to use the calibrated profile?

      Thanks so much!!!

        • 1. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
          Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

          Could be your monitor profile is broken. Try re-calibrating your displays

          • 2. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
            SDAgency Level 1

            Recalibration of the main laptop monitor looks off, the whites look yellow. Nevertheless the problem with Photoshop being desaturated while Firefox is fine if my default monitor profile is the Spyder persists.

             

            The only way around this is if I set the Windows Color Managerment to sRGB for the profile, but then I am not using the Spyder profile.

             

            What is odd with that is the screen doesn't go to its native blueish tint, it seems to retain the right white color balance etc. even though sRGB is the default profile.

             

            Not sure. I didn't change anything and then yesterday, BOOM, I started having this issue. The only similar issue I've had before is when I drag image tabs/windows around in Photoshop until I let go of them they sometimes look temporarily desaturated. Restarting Photoshop always solved that.

             

            Thanks for any ideas.

             

            • 3. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
              Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

              Yep, sounds like a broken profile. Delete the two Spyder profiles and do a fresh calibration. Before calibrating, set the white point to "native" if you'd like to use the native white point.

              • 4. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                Yes, this sounds like a broken profile. Different applications often react differently to a bad profile.

                 

                What is odd with that is the screen doesn't go to its native blueish tint, it seems to retain the right white color balance etc. even though sRGB is the default profile.

                 

                That's because calibration and profile are two different things. The calibration is a linear correction, including white point, loaded into the video card and affecting everything equally. It's equivalent to manual color adjustments in the video card (or the monitor's OSD controls). Calibration is not part of the color management chain.

                 

                The profile is something else entirely. The profile doesn't do anything - it's a three-dimensional description of the display's response in its calibrated state, but with a much higher precision level. It's just a standard icc profile, like any other icc profile. It is only used by color managed applications, and they do an on-the-fly conversion from the document color space into the monitor color space, and send that to the display. That's a color managed display path.

                 

                What confuses people is that the calibration tables are usually stored inside the profile for convenience. But they are functionally unrelated.

                • 5. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                  SDAgency Level 1

                  D Fosse, Think I'm grasping what you are saying, however the profile setting does seem to affect how colors look in applications. My problem before was with the Spyder as the default profiles for each monitor different programs did look different as far as color saturation. Photoshop was pale green and Firefox was bright kelly green.

                   

                  I did delete all old Spyder profiles, recalibrated for each display which set the Windows default color profile to the Spyders automatically.

                   

                  Now when I open the same file in Firefox, Windows Photo Viewer and Photoshop on the same monitor they all looked the same, less saturated color. The only more saturated version I can get now is if I go to Proof>Monitor Display.  So does that sound correct or should Monitor Display show essentially the same saturation?

                   

                  Also, should I be adjusting photos with no proofing or Proof srgb for web and a different adjustment with Proof>Monitor RGB for print?

                   

                  Thanks.

                  • 6. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    The Spyder profile is only used by color managed applications. Applications without color management just ignore the profile, and send the document RGB values straight to the monitor without any correction.

                     

                    It sounds like you have a wide gamut monitor - in that case there will be a significant difference in saturation. With a wide gamut monitor, you must have full end-to-end color management at all times. That's the deal. Applications without color management can not be used - or if you have to use them, you need to learn to ignore what you see.

                     

                    You don't work with proof enabled and it should normally be off. You can use it for print, to check for gamut clipping in the print profile, so that you can compensate if required. Proofing to Monitor RGB just simulates no color management and is more or less pointless.

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                      Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                      In other words, your graphics card (with sRGB set as the display profile) would be sending out an sRGB signal, which is then translated as Adobe RGB(ish) data by your wide gamut monitor.

                       

                      Something like this (correct):

                      DSC_8735 (Ex1).jpg

                      Might then be displayed something like this (wrong, although it may look good):

                      DSC_8735 (Ex2).jpg

                       

                      That said, you'd want to make the image look like the second yourself, not let the monitor fool with you

                      • 8. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                        SDAgency Level 1

                        Thanks guys for sticking with me.  I have Spyder profiles setup for all window monitor profiles.

                         

                        Firefox seems to be operating correctly color wise. If I change gfx.color_management.mode from default 2 (tagged images only) to 1 (complete color management) all my greens are event.

                         

                        But I still for the life of me can't figure out when I go to Print Screen or export an image from Firefox (like I have for years with no issue) and paste it into Photoshop why it is completely washed out.

                        • 9. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                          Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                          Prtscn pulls the data after it is tweaked for the monitor. So you'll need to assign the montitor colorspace after you paste in Photoshop, then convert profile to sRGB. I do screen shots a lot so I set up a simple Action with Shift + F3 as the shortcut to play. Quick and easy. Just have to remember to update the profile in the Action when you calibrate again.

                           

                          Can't say for sure, but it almost would seem the monitor profiles were defaulting to something else all this time.

                          • 10. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                            SDAgency Level 1

                            Still experiencing weird color issues. Firefox color management no longer works correctly. Screenshotting from monitor 2 with assign to monitor 1 profile doesn't match up to monitor 1 color.

                             

                            I have the Spyder profiles in Windows Color Management for each monitor. Then I go to Advanced and also make those settings for Change System Defaults.

                             

                            Under Advanced tab should Windows Color System Defaults at the top should that be sRGB or one of my two monitors? You CAN'T set two different ones by going back to the Devices tab.

                             

                            I left Pshop alone with NAmerica2 as the color settings.

                            • 11. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                              Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                              Screenshotting from monitor 2 with assign to monitor 1 profile doesn't match up to monitor 1 color.

                              Yes, it will display incorrectly if you assign the monitor 1 profile to the monitor 2 screen shot. You need to assign the corresponding profile to the corresponding monitor's screen shot.

                               

                              WCSD is set to default on my system, not the monitor profile. I must admit I'm not entirely sure when/why WCSD would be changed from default.

                              • 12. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                SDAgency Level 1

                                OK, so I verified I do have a wide gamut monitor.

                                 

                                WideGamut.jpg

                                 

                                Since about 100% of my work is for the web only this article by GBallard basically says without purchasing a non-wide gamut monitor I'm toast.

                                 

                                This is why I am experiencing the crazy issues between saturation.

                                 

                                Any ideas if/how to color correct for web output using a wide gamut monitor? If I set the Windows Color Management to standard or sRGB profiles without calibration my laptop has a nasty blue tint that makes it impossible to edit photos.

                                 

                                Thanks.

                                • 13. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  Using a wide gamut monitor for web is no problem, as long as you make sure the color management chain is functional. In other words, you need to use a web browser that is fully color managed in all situations and scenarios.

                                   

                                  If you have Firefox set to mode 1, you're all set.

                                   

                                  And just to hammer the point down - you cannot use applications without color management when you have a wide gamut monitor. They will display incorrectly, no exceptions. This is the trade-off you accept when you purchase such a unit.

                                   

                                  And Dave is absolutely correct about screenshots. They are in monitor color space, so that's the profile you need to assign. Then convert into a standard space like sRGB.

                                  • 14. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                    SDAgency Level 1

                                    Still a bit confused here. I realize I can use my wide gamut monitor and profile for that. I realize I can set Firefox to be color managed, however, if 99.999% of people don't tweak their Firefox settings (and I don't think mobile is color managed) won't they see something really different? Shouldn't I be designing with colors for their world so to speak?

                                     

                                    I saw another post about setting my monitors to sRGB and you saying that isn't necessary. But wouldn't that put me on a level playing field with all the people who look at my photos and designs online since they don't color manage? Unfortunately I can't set my laptop monitor to sRGB because it has a nasty blue tint.

                                     

                                    Also, Datacolor who makes Spyder says some of my issue that my video card has only one LUT so the second monitor isn't completely separately calibrated.

                                    • 15. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      You're overthinking this. Get it right on your end. How other people choose to set up their systems is their problem, not yours. As long as you know the file is good you've delivered your part. You can't be expected to make it wrong just to satisfy someone who most likely doesn't care one way or the other.

                                       

                                      Setting your monitor to sRGB is not necessary. As long as the file is sRGB - and you have a color managed browser and a valid monitor profile - what hits the screen is sRGB and nothing else.

                                       

                                      It would have been necessary if your browser wasn't color managed, but it is. The beauty of Firefox' mode 1 is that it even assigns sRGB to untagged material, right down to graphic page elements. Everything displays correctly, on any type of display, not just photos.

                                       

                                      All other browsers skip color management altogether for untagged material, and just send the numbers uncorrected to the display. That will get oversaturated.

                                       

                                      As for the video card having just one LUT - no, I don't buy that. Any reasonably current card (from the last ten years or so) supports dual or more LUTs. And even so, the LUT isn't the issue here, what matters is the profile, which is a different thing.

                                       

                                      It's true that the Spyder Express edition only supports a single display, but that has nothing to do with the video LUT. It's because the software is set up so that each new profile overwrites the previous one, and this is purely for market segmenting reasons. The Elite edition has no such limitation.

                                      • 16. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                        Benjamin Root MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                        Still a bit confused here. I realize I can use my wide gamut monitor and profile for that. I realize I can set Firefox to be color managed, however, if 99.999% of people don't tweak their Firefox settings (and I don't think mobile is color managed) won't they see something really different? Shouldn't I be designing with colors for their world so to speak?

                                        No, because you will be calibrated to the standard. So an image on your calibrated monitor will display the same on any calibrated monitor (within the limits of the monitor, of course). Every monitor from the factory is going to be a bit different, so you never want to imitate another person's monitor. That would be impossible. If you edit to the calibrated standard, it will display as close to correct as possible anywhere else. How close will be determined by just how close to the standard another monitor is.

                                        I saw another post about setting my monitors to sRGB and you saying that isn't necessary. But wouldn't that put me on a level playing field with all the people who look at my photos and designs online since they don't color manage? Unfortunately I can't set my laptop monitor to sRGB because it has a nasty blue tint.

                                        Your average consumer doesn't own a wide gamut monitor. For a monitor of regular gamut, sRGB will be close. Witha wide gamut, Adobe RGB will be close. In your case, if you chose not to calibrat, you'd set your monitor profile to Adobe RGB, not sRGB.

                                        • 17. Re: Photoshop, Windows, Colorimeter Color Settings
                                          SDAgency Level 1

                                          I hear ya and thanks for sticking with me.

                                           

                                          My main laptop monitor 1 is wide gamut and secondary is not AND when I set my Firefox to 1 for color managed it is having issues on either monitor. For instance, on this website I made: https://tinyurl.com/gvsvtzu

                                           

                                          If I cut on Firefox Color Management to 1 and true the color looks washed out on monitor 2 and does not match HTML elements with sampled color like the header. Also the rollovers on either monitor have a dark green background momentarily then pop to the same color as the header color. See screen shot simulation from monitor 2.

                                           

                                          Rollover2.jpg

                                           

                                          If I go to the other office room and try this on two other computers with Firefox's Color Management on 1 and true the color looks fine and it does not do this weird rollover background color issue.

                                           

                                          Furthermore if I change the profile for the laptop monitor 1 only and leave #2 with it's profile untouched and close and re-open Firefox on monitor 2 the colors look totally different. Changing the #1 profile is somehow impacting monitor two and Firefox's color management. I think that is why datacolor is talking about needing two LUTs but I'm skeptical about that too. Even further, if I tell profile 1 to be sRGB and reopen Firefox in color managed mode, the rollovers work fine.

                                           

                                          I've reinstalled the video card drivers and Spyder and recalibrated about 4 times now to try and replace any corrupt profiles. Only thing I can think of is trying something like DisplayCal as an alternate calibration.