Speedgrade is not rendering

[halmrasta]

Hello,

I am new to Speedgrade. After learning about grading I am now ready to render the project. For some reason it is not rendering.

I press render, it says: Rendering: 0% 23020 (frames total). After a few seconds it says "done", but it is still on 0%, and the file is not in the designated location.

(I have tried both Online Quality and Offline Quality, both giving me the same result).

Hope for a positive answer and solution! Best Kristine.

[R Neil Haugen · Accepted solution]

When I've had this, it's normally been because there was some option I hadn't set correctly ... or had just skipped ... and after going through re-setting the export dialog box for that codec I finally got it to "go".

Neil

[halmrasta]

Thank you Neil, yes, this was also the case. But I am still wondering why. This is what I did:

- I set the codec to: "Apple Pro Res 4444 25 fps" - this didn’t work.

- When I manually set the codec it worked.

Have any idea why the Apple Pro Res doesn’t work?

Best

Kristine

[R Neil Haugen]

What settings were different between the Apple ProRes 25fps initial setting, and your manual choices? I know on my own computer, there's a few of the options that as they load, don't result in an export with the video included ... but I can modify a different 'flavor' of that to what seem the same settings, and it works.

So I've found I needed to futz with settings to get what worked.

As to why? No clue. I even asked one of the two initial creators of Iridas, which became SpeedGrade when purchased by Adobe ... and he just shook his head. If Patrick Palmer can't tell me, I'm wondering if anyone can.

Neil

[halmrasta]

Thank you again, Neil. For the manual one I used: Apple Intermediate Codec (Apple Pro Res is not an option in the manual settings).

Now, another problem has occurred. The export does not give me the same color as the graded..., the closest I have got is when using H.264 and Black Magic YUV. Is there any: "match color profile to source" option? My footage is Canon 5d m II, my monitor is Eizo CS240 (recently calibrated), my computer is Mac Pro (Late 2013) with Graphics: AMD FirePro D300 2048 MB.

Is it worth keep on trying with Speedgrade? I love how it works when grading, but the difficult workflow from Premiere to Speedgrade to export makes me wonder if it is worth it. Especially now since the colors come out wrong in the end. What should I go for instead?

[R Neil Haugen]

I've had issues at times with certain codecs when using Sg in "native" mode, as we in general need to do these days ... BUT ... another user of Mac's did post a work-around to use newer PrPro project files in SpeedGrade "as if in Direct Link mode".

It's not as spiffy to use as Patrick Zadrobilek's "Ntwon Productions PrPro BCC" (I think ... ) little app, but that's only for PC's.

This came about because of another user on Mac who posted the initial "hack" workaround. I repeated his work on PC, and this thread is where I encapsulated both. After completing your grading, you save your work in Sg and then revert the character back to what it was before ...

PrPro/Sg 2015.3 Workaround Hack

Note:

The "Version" number for 2017 is 32 ... so you change the character 2 to 0, making that read Version Number 30 ... and when modding this back to use in PrPro 2017, you would change the 0 back to a 2, so it would read "32" again. Otherwise, it's the same ...

Neil

[halmrasta]

Thanks again, Neil. I followed the advice from Kevin, but I cannot open it in Speedgrade. I tried with both the .prproj and the .ircp extentions (I work on the newest versions of PrPro and Sg.)

[R Neil Haugen]

Hmmm ... I just ran a friend to help airport and am sitting here with a mocha waiting for traffic to clear.

I'll be back in the office in two hours. How about posting a step through of your attempt to modify the prproj file, and I'll link at it then?

Neil

[halmrasta]

Hei,

I just followed the steps in Kevins post, but it didn’t work.

Since then I have made some progress in Speedgrade: the colors turn out the same as the source when I use the preset from the format option menu: "AJA 10 bit lin RGB" (not from the "other" button). This is all wonderful, but it does not export the sound. I have tried all the options in the "other" button (that one gives you sound options) with all combinations of Codecs and Natives. The sound gets exported with most of the options, but when it does the colors are off again. The only exception was Codec: Apple Intermediate + Native: Apple Uncompressed. Perfect colors, but again, no sound.

My workflow has been this:

PremierePro: export file with sound as Apple Pro Res 4444 (since the dynamic link doesn’t work).

SpeedGrade: import file with sound, grading, rendering.

I have imported the file back to Premiere, it looks good, and I am now trying out different codecs in Premiere, no luck with the colors yet.

Please do tell if my workflow is messy and can be done otherwise.

Thank you again for helping out (P.S: it is evening in Spain, so I will check the thread again in 10 hours).

Best

K

[R Neil Haugen]

For round-tripping, don't bother putting the sound in the grading export from PrPro unless you want to hear it while in Sg. Otherwise, it's wasted space. Just export the ProRes you're using as that will give great DI (digital intermediate) quality.

Do your SpeedGrade work ... and yea, that's as good a codec to render out of Sg as I can think of.

"Round trip" the graded soundless clip from Sg, drop it on your timeline above the original sequence, go through & make sure it's still frame-to-frame & sound matched ... if so, simply delete the original video track on the sequence and drop the graded one down into V1.

Then finish your credits, titles, anything left in the project, and you're ready to export to whatever delivery media you may need.

I'm interested also in your troubles with Kevin's process to mod a prproj project file so SpeedGrade can use it. Can you list your specific steps that you took so I can see if there's something I would suggest done differently?

Neil

[halmrasta]

Ok, so it is normal to back to Premiere again to add the sound? I have no problem attaching the sound again in Premiere, but I have the codec problem again. I have tried with QT time and all the codecs, finally: QT + "uncompressed RGB" gives me the right colors. This codec is good to use for files that I show in galleries, but for the web I should use H.264 or similar right? H.264 gives me the wrong colors again. How can I get the same colors but with a web codec?

For Kevin's advice I followed this:

-First take your premiere project and change the extension to .gz

-Then unzip the project. It will not have an extension.

-Open the project in your favorite text editor as a plain text document. I used textMate.

-Then around the 3rd or 4th line, sorry I'm on my iPhone at home look for a version in quotes "31".

-Change the 31 to 30 and save.

-Rename the file to have the extension .prproj.

-Open in speedgrade.   This is where it fails, I cannot open in Speedgrade, only Premiere.

-Grade and save. You can now open back up in premiere.

[R Neil Haugen]

You can open that modded file in PrPro, but not in SpeedGrade? A couple things pop to mind.

First, I just did this, and when I extracted-to using Z-zip on my PC, it created a new folder, and I made the mod to that file in the subfolder. Then went into Sg, and pointed at "that" file ... and it didn't work! But then I realized I'd pointed Sg at the unmodified file, in the parent folder ... and as soon as I went to the file with the modded "30", it worked perfectly.

So, make sure you're using the right file, and not making the easy mistake I made just now!

The other thing, is which release of SpeedGrade do you have? Click on the wrench menu icon, and the About tab ... is it SpeedGrade 2015.1? As an earlier release would perhaps need an earlier version number.

As to the Qt codecs, are you talking about having issues when viewing that output in QuickTime player or in PrPro? If QuickTime player, that does ... a number of things ... to any video it "sees", changing both gamma and dynamic range.

If not, are you talking about a Qt export from PrPro that when re-imported into PrPro doesn't look the same?

Neil

[halmrasta]

Thank you for not giving up on me, Neil, I realize this thread has spun away from the original topic.

I have Speedgrade CC 2015.

Yes, I can open it in PrPro and not Sg, but this is maybe reasonable since I changed the file ending to .prproj. I tried to use .ircp as well, but it didn’t work. Hmmm..., on my mac the extracted Z-zip comes up as a single file, not a new folder. As far as I can see it doesn’t create a parent folder, if so where would I look for the parent folder? I have searched for the file name, and it only shows me the Z-zip + the single file.

About the codecs, yes, it is only when I play it from QT, it looks good if I import the exported file back to PrPro. After trying out the codecs I am finally content with this one: QT + Uncompressed RGB, and this one for web: QT + H.265. Are there any media players that doesn’t change the gamma and dynamic range?

I have tested Premieres color correction more thoroughly now, and for my eyes it seems to do the same as Speedgrade. Am I wrong?

The only thing is that you can’t work with color correction layers?

K

[R Neil Haugen]

Many of the things doable in Sg can be done within Lumetri. Not all, by any means, and often in a rather more limited way.

Lumetri has a very good HSL Secondary panel, and I happily told the engineers that were at NAB when they demoed this it was a big step forward.

However, there is no ability to do additional secondaries without "stacking" multiple Lumetri instances on a clip of use of Adjustment Layers above a clip. Both of which requires a good working knowledge of the way Lumetri sets a processing order for effects, or you'll find things suddenly go weird on you.

Also, when you add a second Lumetri directly on a clip or adjustment layer, the main Lumetri panel will only be available for the last instance applied. For an earlier instance, you use the Effects Control panel to access the settings of that earlier Lumetri. Easily done but slower.

I found that using a heavily remapped Tangent Ripple (and of course, the marvelous but marvelously spendier Elements control surface) makes Lumetri vastly faster, more capable, and more intuitive than using mouse, pen-tab, or keyboard shortcuts alone. It is WILL worth the around  $350 USD for the Ripple.

For many smaller projects or really any projects that don't require multiple secondaries as a routine tool, and don't require a lot of precision shot-matching, Lumetri works very well.

Heavy secondaries or much shot-matching and I'm out through Patrick's approach Sg.

I do have a custom shot-matching workspace in PrPro that does allow me to work small projects ok.

Neil

[halmrasta]

Thank you again, Neil. I will stay with PrPro for now, and will maybe get back to Sg later on.

Kristine

[R Neil Haugen]

For either Lumetri or SpeedGrade, ask in the PrPro forum for Lumetri, put "Lumetri" or "color" in the thread title, I'll be sure to see it ... probably see it anyway. But I'll go right after it on seeing anything referring to color.

In Sg ... I check that forum a couple times a day, sometimes more.

Either place, I'll give what help I can, as will any number of others.

Neil

[Greg Popp]

Hi Kristine,

I hate to see someone who was enjoying grading in SpeedGrade abandon it.  I have a love/hate relationship with SpeedGrade, but it IS the only way I've been successful coloring 4K footage (beautifully and artistically) with my limited setup of a 2013 MacBook Pro with Retina Display, Apple Thunderbolt display and external thunderbolt and usb3 drives.

I find that the Lumetri controls within Premiere Pro "lag" terribly when I'm working with 4K footage - so bad, in fact, that I find coloring 4K within Premiere Pro (again, given my setup) impossible.  Here's how I embrace a workflow with SpeedGrade:

I always transcode my footage before editing with Media Encoder to ProRes 422.  SpeedGrade will not open MotionJPEG files from my Canon 1D-C, and I find 4K footage from my Phantom 4 is also difficult to work with in both Premiere and SpeedGrade - so 422 it is for me.

I export an EDL - sometimes several EDLs - without audio from my completed PP sequence.  Why several?  Well, the goal is to color every shot.  Perhaps you have multiple timelines, or varying frame sizes, or After Effects comps, etc.  Break it down.  Don't throw too much at SpeedGrade.  REBUILD your sequence as if in an ONLINE session on higher video tracks in PP AFTER rendering from SpeedGrade (more on that in a second).

So, I bring my EDLs (one at a time) into SpeedGrade and load the footage from the desktop, IGNORING the red frame warning that invariably pops up.  Yes, I set the frame rate correctly in the prefs, but it doesn't seem to matter.

I color, twiddle wheels and sliders EFFORTLESSLY in SpeedGrade.  I LOVE the matching functions and ability to save looks and 2 and 3-up views.  I often import stills from movies to guide my creativity.  Looking at a shot from a favorite film side by side with your own work is awesome.  This is why I still LOVE SpeedGrade more than hate it.

I CANNOT play the timeline in SpeedGrade in real time - not even at 1/8.  But who cares?  I'm here JUST TO COLOR.

Now - why you came here.  Rendering.  Choose DPX.  It's an industry standard used professionally all through the pipeline - especially in Visual Effects.  It's one of the built in options, and it's never, ever failed me.  Just be SURE YOU MAKE A DEDICATED FOLDER TO HOLD THOSE THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUAL FRAMES.  Mess that up once and you'll never do it again.

Now, import the DPX back into PP, making sure to check the "image sequence" box in the import dialogue.  Within PP, the DPX image sequence will look just like a clip.  If it shows to be at the wrong frame rate (happens ALL the time with SpeedGrade - don't ask me, hence HATE of the Love/Hate), right click and choose Interpret Footage and change to 23.976 or whatever you're working at.

Now, drag the DPX sequence to a video track above your existing track(s).  Do so with additional DPX renders.  Cut them up as necessary, copy over effects from your lower, original tracks.  You're ONLING now, baby!  You might have to render to get rid of the red bar in PP, as those DPX files take some horsepower.

No, this isn't a fast and easy approach, but it IS a PRO APPROACH and it will yield LOVELY pro 4K results, even with the simplest of setups.  I used this VERY workflow on a short film from which a short 4K excerpt was featured on the Canon sizzle reel at NAB a couple of years ago.

If you decide to try this and have any questions, fire away.  Good luck.  I hope SpeedGrade doesn't die completely.  When it does, it's off to Resolve for me, with a bitter taste from Adobe to show for it.

[R Neil Haugen]

Great response, Greg!

Yea, if Sg doesn't get pulled of hiatus status and rebuilt, we'll all have to do the lousy round-trip to Resolve with everything. I'm currently able to use Patrick Zadrobilek's PrProBCC app, also mentioned on this forum, to auto-mod a prproj file for use in Sg2015.1 and then back to PrPro 2017. You can't use AE comps in that, however ... you need to export a complete replacement file from AE rather than use comps.

And I don't know how well it would work on bigger projects with more effects applied, like yours. So very good to see another's process through all this. And I always love seeing different workflows detailed!

Neil

[Neil Watcyn-Palmer]

I have the choice of Speedgrade and Da Vinci Resolve. When it cones to 4K rendering they both suck.

With Sg thought the experience is beyond awful.

I get all the symptoms of 0% to done with no file. in Pro res

I get a jerky file in mpeg4

I get a hung iMac in other formats.

Why I cannot just send it to media encoder.

The SG team seem to be a law unto themselves. Nothing in it is standard Adobe look feel intuitive

It  needs a thorough rethink and then proper testing before sending it out to a user community paying good money for it.

[R Neil Haugen]

SpeedGrade was originally Iridas, designed for pro colorist work. The user interface was created years ago, and for an expected user of some experience. When Adobe bought it and renamed it SpeedGrade, they made almost no changes in the UI, but did as of CC2014 include the "Direct Link" process where a PrPro project file opened directly in SpeedGrade without the need for exporting EDL's and conforming media to the EDL in the grading app.

For what it could do, once you learned the interface, it was actually very fast to work with. But if you didn't get some help to start out with, it was certainly nearly an opaque process, especially the exporting!

The Direct Link process meant of course one didn't ever export from Sg.

However, the dropping of the Direct Link ... and putting Sg on "hiatus" status, where it's not getting developed at the current time, has created problems for those still wanting to use the program.

For me, I'm on a PC, and find that using Patrick Zadrobilek's Ntown site app ... PrPro-BCC I think it's called ... to auto-mod a PrPro project file so I can grade in Sg in the 'Direct Link' mode, then run the project file back through that little app to up-convert the file back for PrPro 2017 is a heck of a lot faster & easier than sending out an XML and conforming media in Resolve,. then going back through the process to finish in PrPro.

Resolve is a vastly wider and deeper set of tools, of course. But also takes a lot more knowledge to get running well in it.

Neil

[halmrasta]

I had the same problem om exporting from SG. Turns out the Apple Pro Res codec doesn't work.

Best

K