4 Replies Latest reply on Mar 6, 2017 1:13 PM by mojo-risin

    Ruby point size and Kenten size overrides - can't redefine style.

    mojo-risin Level 1

      Hi all, I'm a bit lost with this one. Working with Chinese text (my knowledge of this language is none - apologies). I have a text block containing some of Chinese text in one of the paragraphs, but I see now that this occurs to a random Chinese sign.

       

      Take this example: a single Chinese sign is styled by paragraph style - the style is set. I decide to scale the whole text frame -> I get overrides -> I redefine the style and get left with overrides: Ruby point size: 0,...  fractures, Kenten size 0,...

       

       

      (My screen making software is turning off the override popup :/ )

       

      Where are the Ruby point and Kenten set? Where can I find these settings, and why can't they be redefined with paragraph style after scaling?

       

      I understand that these are some kind of a superscrpit in Chinese, and nothing seem to change when I clear overrides, but given some sentences I want to be sure nothing gets damaged.

        • 1. Re: Ruby point size and Kenten size overrides - can't redefine style.
          Joel Cherney Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Well, your install of InDesign  has an English interface, so you won't have any control over ruby (pronunciation guide for Japanese) or kenten (emphasis marks for Japanese). The UI tools to control these are only available in Chinese (or Japanese, or Korean) versions of InDesign.

           

          I suspect that scaling your paragraph is causing overrides because you have the setting "When Scaling: Apply to Content" set in your Preferences, so when you scale the paragraph down a bit it's actually reducing the point size of your type, right? But the point size for ruby is already zero before scaling, I would guess (because you don't use ruby in Chinese) so it's throwing an override to show that it can't scale the ruby or kenten below zero points.

           

          I think you can clear those overrides with impunity. Ruby is essentially a pronunciation guide for Japanese, and is not used in Chinese at all. Kenten refers to a type of emphasis mark in Japanese, and I don't think they are used in Chinese. Take a look right here:

          ruby-kenten-ahf.png

          The black dots are kenten, and the tiny Japanese letters above the line are ruby. Don't have 'em in your Chinese text? Clear overrides with a clear conscience.

          2 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Ruby point size and Kenten size overrides - can't redefine style.
            Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

            mojo-risin  wrote

             

            …Where are the Ruby point and Kenten set? Where can I find these settings, and why can't they be redefined with paragraph style after scaling?…

            Hi,

            Ruby and Kenten settings are available in the UI with the Japanese version of InDesign only, I think. //EDIT: See Joel's reply 1. I was not accurate enough.

            Why do you want to redefine the paragraph style if you changed text in one single location of your document?
            If you change the paragraph style text throughout your document could change.

             

            But you asked and maybe there is a solution by scripting.

            Just to give you an idea and overview how many property : value pairs are available for ExtendScript scripting with text formatting, below a link to the scripting reference of InDesign CC 2017. Search for "kenten" or "ruby" or scroll down the list shown in "Property List":

            InDesign ExtendScript API (12.0)

             

            Don't know, if a simple script like that below will work with Japanese property : value pairs with a Non-Japanese InDesign version.

            If you want to try this, copy the two lines of code to your text editor with formatting off—text only, save the file perhaps as:

             

            changeAppliedParagraphStyle-TEXT-MUST-BE-SELECTED.jsx

             

            Make sure that the file has .jsx as suffix.

             

            Move the script file to the right folder in your file system so that it is available in your InDesign Scripts panel.

             

            To get that folder:

            Open the Scripts panel in InDesign and right-click the User folder you are seeing there.

            The only context available command should be "Reveal in Finder" or "Reveal in Explorer".

            Do that and move the jsx file to that folder.

             

            1. Backup your document

            2. Select one "character" in your Japanese text

            3. Run the script below with a double-click

            to the script's file name showing in the InDesign Scripts panel.

             

            The script tries to change all text values of the applied paragraph style to the values of the selected text.

             

            Here the code in ExtendScript (JavaScript):

             

            app.selection[0].appliedParagraphStyle.properties = app.selection[0].properties;
            alert("Script has run. Check your applied paragraph style.");
            

             

            Don't know if that will work with your Japanese text.

            I cannot test that.

             

            And since paragraph styles could be applied document wide save the document with a new name after running the script.

             

            Regards,
            Uwe

            • 3. Re: Ruby point size and Kenten size overrides - can't redefine style.
              Laubender Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Hi Joel,

              did not see your answer before posting reply 2.

              Thank you for the explanation…

               

              Regards,
              Uwe

              • 4. Re: Ruby point size and Kenten size overrides - can't redefine style.
                mojo-risin Level 1

                Thank You guys for an extensive explanation. That solves the problem. Since it's only Chinese and I see no Ruby or Kenten points, I'll clear the overrides. It's only one line so I think I would be able to spot them.

                 

                ...and that's right when I scale the font it calculates kenten and ruby proporionally. Only when I increase the font I get more NEGATIVE values, and when I make it tiny small, the override values get close to zero fractions (also negative).