15 Replies Latest reply on Mar 12, 2017 2:23 PM by trshaner

    "Make This a Proof" use case

    J Isner Level 1

      In our classroom environment, Lightroom catalogs are shared by students and get wiped out at the end of the day.  If students want to preserve their proof copies, they must export them as actual file types.

       

      Use Case: You create a a proof copy, do some soft proofing work, and make a print.  Before quitting Lightroom, you export the proof copy as a PSD.  To make another print the next day, you re-import the PSD.   In the Develop module, you want to tell Lightroom "Make This a Proof."  But you don't get a dialog with that choice until you move a slider. 

       

      To handle this scenario, the Create Proof Copy button should be a menu with two choices: (1) Create Proof Copy (2) Make This a Proof Copy.  If no choice is made, pop up the dialog.  Not only would this handle the above use case, but it would make the proof process more logical and understandable.

        • 1. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

          Use Case: You create a a proof copy, do some soft proofing work, and make a print.  Before quitting Lightroom, you export the proof copy as a PSD.  To make another print the next day, you re-import the PSD In the Develop module, you want to tell Lightroom "Make This a Proof."  But you don't get a dialog with that choice until you move a slider.

          If I understand your question correctly (as shown above) there is no need to invoke the 'Proof Copy' dialog. The exported PSD has the LR Soft Proof settings applied to it on Export, which will be applied to the print output.

           

          If the objective is to create a "new" soft proof copy you should use the original file (not the PSD soft proof copy). Does that make sense?

          • 2. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
            J Isner Level 1

            You're right -- you can just print the re-imported PSD.  Since it has the proofing changes, it IS the proof copy.

             

            But if you want to make additional proofing changes before printing again, or even just view the image as it will appear when printed?  Then you must view the re-imported file under the same ICC profile and rendering intent as you used before.  For that, you need to "Make This a Proof."  That's the actual use case I had in mind, but I oversimplified it in the OP.

             

            The reason for not making a new proof copy from the original file is that considerable work went into proofing and we want to avoid repeating it. 

            • 3. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

              But if you want to make additional proofing changes before printing again, or even just view the image as it will appear when printed? 

              Thanks for clarifying. If the soft proof copy file is to be edited further I suggest exporting to DNG raw file format and include the target profile in the file name. PSD, TIF, and JPEG are destructive file formats and all of the editing changes are "baked-in," which reduces the dynamic range of the image data. You'll get better results using a totally non-destructive workflow with Export to DNG file format and all of the LR Develop settings are saved to the file's XMP data. When you open the Soft Proof DNG file simply check 'Soft Proofing,' select the target profile (saved in the DNG filename), apply the new soft proof edits, and Export to DNG using the same filename (overwrite) or unique name to keep it a separate file.

              • 4. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                J Isner Level 1

                Using DNG format is an excellent suggestion!  I think this is the correct solution, but I need to test it.

                 

                I tried an experiment saving the DNG to the desktop as {Filename>>}_{Copy name>>} and then re-importing using Move.  The import hung for about 10 minutes in the building preview stage.  I had to kill the import.  I may have hit a Lightroom bug because file simply disappeared.  It had already been removed from the external folder but was nowhere in the Lightroom catalog.  Could it possibly the length of the filename?  I'm on Windows.

                 

                _DSC4751_cifa_4900_baryta310_p_bk.icc (Media Setting : Premium Luster 260), Perceptual.DNG

                • 5. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  It looks like the : in the profile name is causing the issue. Below is what LR Export module named my DNG file using your filename:

                   

                  _DSC4751_cifa_4900_baryta310_p_bk.icc (Media Setting : Premium Luster 260), Perceptual

                   

                  Here it is inside LR CC 2015.8 on my Windows 7 system:

                   

                   

                  Change your LR Preferences as shown below and it should work.

                   

                  • 6. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                    J Isner Level 1

                    "File Name Generation" is confusing nomenclature since (according to Adobe) the rules are applied on import, so it's really generating the internal names for the catalog from names of the files being imported.  The only illegal character in my filename is the colon, which should have been changed to a dash. So my  DNG should be imported into the catalog with only this one alteration to its name.  But instead it just disappeared.  What am I missing?

                    • 7. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

                       

                      "File Name Generation" is confusing nomenclature since (according to Adobe) the rules are applied on import,

                      The rules are also applied on Export and the : is replaced automatically with a -. It's Windows reserved character:

                       

                      Naming Files, Paths, and Namespaces (Windows)

                       

                      It's not possible to "manually" rename a file with a colon on a Windows system. So I'm not sure how you even created a DNG file with a colon in the filename. Try changing your LR Preferences as shown in my reply #5, export the file to DNG format again using the same renaming {Filename>>}_{Copy name>>}. It works for me.

                      • 8. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                        J Isner Level 1

                        My mistake: the file WAS successfully imported even though I killed the import during preview generation.  I accidentally imported it into the wrong folder.  The name after import is

                         

                        _DSC4751_cifa_4900_baryta310_p_bk.icc (Media Setting - Premium Luster 260), Perceptual.DNG

                         

                        so the colon was changed to a dash on import.  Mystery solved. 

                         

                        But now I proceed with the experiment.

                         

                        Select the imported DNG

                         

                        In the Develop module, check Soft Proofing

                         

                        The Soft Proofing panel appears with a button "Create Proof Copy" (which I do not press)

                         

                        I move the Exposure slider

                         

                        I get the dialog with the two options: "Create Proof Copy" and "Make This a Proof"

                         

                        I click "Make This a Proof"

                         

                        I undo the exposure adjustment

                         

                        My complaint (see the original post) is that I had to move a slider in order to be offered the option to "Make This a Proof,"  and I need to undo the adjustment in order to resume printing without further adjustments.

                         

                        This is why I suggested that both options (create proof copy, make this a proof) be offered when the Soft Proofing panel first appears.

                        • 9. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

                           

                          My complaint (see the original post) is that I had to move a slider in order to be offered the option to "Make This a Proof,"  and I need to undo the adjustment in order to resume printing without further adjustments.

                          'Soft Proof' allows "viewing" the image file using a target color profile so that Develop module adjustments can be made to correct "out of gamut areas. No other changes are applied to the image file. If you're printing from inside LR and have no intention of applying further edits to the exported DNG there's no need to select 'Soft Proof.' Just open the DNG image file in the Print module, select the target printer and paper profile, and adjust any other required settings.

                          • 10. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                            J Isner Level 1

                            "...if you have no intention of applying further edits" I agree!  But why should there be such a restriction?  I should be able to make further edits if I want.  So the use case should be modified to say "and you want to resume soft proofing".  In this case, it's necessary to move a slider in order to get the option to "Make This a Proof."  Then you must remember to reset the slider.   This is awkward and error-prone, but worse: it violates the user interface design "principle of least astonishment."

                            • 11. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

                              I should be able to make further edits if I want.  So the use case should be modified to say "and you want to resume soft proofing". 

                              Exporting to DNG file format saves all of your 'Soft Proof' edits and allows performing a new 'Soft Proof' review starting with those last edits (i.e. resume).

                              https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

                              In this case, it's necessary to move a slider in order to get the option to "Make This a Proof." 

                              Well yes indeed and how else would you make new edits other than by moving a Develop slider? So don't move just any old slider. Select the slider you feel needs adjusting and the 'Make This a Proof' dialog popup will appear. Choose your option and continue applying additional "Soft Proof' edits.

                               

                              • 12. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                                J Isner Level 1

                                Yes, I realize now that all I was asking for is a separate button to "Make this a Proof."  Adobe clearly recognizes that attempts to use a master photo as a proof copy are a mistake 99% of the time, so they pop up a warning. And 99% of the time they're right and you're grateful for the warning (it's kind of like exiting from Photoshop without saving, which gives you the message "Save before quitting?").

                                 

                                However my use case=, the user wants the DNG to be used as a proof copy, but has to wait for a warning for it to happen.   Maybe that's like quitting Photoshop knowing that you don't want to save changes, but it doesn't feel the same.  In one case you thank Photoshop for reminding you, and in the other case you curse Photoshop for not knowing what you intended to do.

                                 

                                Anyway,  trshaner this has been a very helpful discussion.  Thank you!

                                • 13. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  I had a chance to look at this some more and came up with an alternative solution. This is also useful in a multi-user work environment where one person is editing the images and someone else is doing the printing.

                                   

                                  When students or (employees) want to create a Soft Proof Copy instruct them as follows:

                                   

                                  1) Create a copy of the original edited file by Exporting it to DNG file format.

                                  2) In the Develop module select the DNG file, check 'Soft Proofing,' and click on 'Make This a Proof.'

                                  3) Apply adjustments to the DNG soft proof copy file as you would normally.

                                  4) Once the adjustments are completed go to Library menu Metadata> 'Update DNG Preview & Metadata.

                                   

                                  This will write the soft proof Develop adjustments, soft proof panel settings, AND the 'Soft Proof Copy' flag into the file's XMP data. When the DNG soft proof copy file is imported into a new or different LR catalog it will be recognized as a 'Soft Proof Copy' and automatically apply all of the Develop adjustments and Soft Proof panel settings.

                                  • 14. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                                    J Isner Level 1

                                    A clever method, but it suffers from the same problem with "Make This a Proof," namely, that you don't get the option until you make an adjustment.

                                     

                                    I suggested that Adobe add two items to the Develop menu: (1) Create Proof Copy and (2) Make This a Proof.  These items would be grayed out unless Soft Proofing is checked.  That would accommodate for the use cases we have discussed and would provide an (optional) proactive user experience to users who knew ahead of time what they wanted.

                                    • 15. Re: "Make This a Proof" use case
                                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      https://forums.adobe.com/people/J+Isner  wrote

                                       

                                      A clever method, but it suffers from the same problem with "Make This a Proof," namely, that you don't get the option until you make an adjustment.

                                      OK, let's take a look at the workflow steps with and without a new 'Make This a Proof' button added in the Soft Proof panel.

                                       

                                      Workflow without a 'Make This a Proof' button

                                      1) Select DNG file.

                                      2) Check 'Soft Proofing' in the Develop module.

                                      3) Make your first Soft Proof adjustment.

                                      4) Click on current button 'Make This a Proof' in the popup dialog box.

                                      5) Continue applying other Soft Proof adjustments.

                                       

                                      Workflow with a new 'Make This a Proof' button

                                      1) Select DNG file.

                                      2) Check 'Soft Proofing' in the Develop module.

                                      3) Click on the new button 'Make This a Proof' button in the Soft Proof panel.

                                      4) Make your first Soft Proof adjustment.

                                      5) Continue applying other Soft Proof adjustments.

                                       

                                      Looks like the same workflow steps to me, but in a slightly different order. Peace Brother