pinned and not pinned objects together not working

[sonnenundmondschein]

Hi!

On Start Neu I do have some pinned objects in the right top corner, these must be pinned in order to stay at this "place" when one resize the browser window within this breakpoint (1300-1025). Other objects are not pinned. The photo must be resizable in height and width. Also this is most important the text blocks underneath shall "follow" tup he shrinking photo within this breakpoint. BUT only the left is behaving properly.

When I unpinn the objects in the top right corner the false behaviour stops, but then of course the objects do not stay on the right place.

Is this a correct behaviour of Muse?

How can I solve this little task?

Thanks a lot,

Hanna

[Günter Heißenbüttel · Accepted solution]

• What happens, if you group the two text blocks and afterward group the text blocks with the image?

• What happens, if you place an image placeholder with the same size as you image exactly over the image and group this with the two text blocks?

If this has no success, do, what normally should be done in these cases: Create a new site with only one page and only the "bad" behaving elements or reduce your existing site to only one page, containing these elements. Upload this .muse file to Dropbox or a similar file sharing service and provide the download link here. Then we can have a closer look.

Thus, time consuming „question and answer“ games or pure guessing can be considerably reduced.

[sonnenundmondschein]

Thanks a lot, just grouping both textblocs did help.

I tried that earlier, but without success, I am sure this was my fault somehow.

The other suggestions are heartly welcome too! Good to know more methods.

Thanks again! I appreciate your input!

Hanna

[sonnenundmondschein]

Me again,...

I have further developed my site and again stumble about the "pinned and not pinned objects together" that does not work as I expect.

This is a standard website with some pinned buttons on top/right and some other objects & text underneath.

On "Start" the right textblock and search filed move way too much down (see 1300 breakpoint and 1025), when I delete the pinned buttons, the behaviour stops, also when I insert a browser width grafic item above the text. (see "Start Kopie").

Grouping the items does only help the text blocks, but not the pinned search field.

Strange enough, but in breakpoint 768 the missbehaviour stops,...

I thought that pinned and not pinned items work together, should Muse not be able to handle this correctly?
Or did I miss somehing fundamental?

Exist a Muse tutorial, which describe the behaviour of pinned and not pinned objects together and workarounds?

Here is my file.

Thanks a lot for your ideas,

Hanna

[Günter Heißenbüttel]

The link doesn’t work …

[sonnenundmondschein]

Sorry: Link

[Günter Heißenbüttel]

I think, Muse can’t really decide, which objects are determined to make other elements shift down. How should it?

Above the search filed there are placed at least 10 elements in different orientations and different scaling behaviour. Additionally, these elements are repositioned breakpointwise. So I believe, this exceeds – must exceed – the artificial intelligence of Muse.

If you place a rectangle (stretched to browser width) between the blue rectangle and the "Search" field (as you have already done in"start Kopie") all works well.

I think, in the actual stage of development, we have to use such "workarounds", because Muse really can’t decide without any doubt, which elements should interact with wich others. I think, it is even more difficult, if the decisive element is a 3rd party widget, from which we don’t know at all, how it is expected to behave. Perhaps it will never be possible, to resolve such ambiguous situations in an always satisfying way.

Therefore: Simply help Muse in finding the correct decisions (in this case by adding a browser wide rectangle.).

[sonnenundmondschein]

First thank you very much for your promt answer! I appreciate it.

My opinion: This is a very, very standard responsive webdesign layout, nothing special in it, just a foto, some text an some buttons, and therefore one should expect that Muse can handle it.

It is a bit dissapointing to be honest.

I think, Muse can’t really decide, which objects are determined to make other elements shift down. How should it?

Well, obviously there is a kind of rule that I dont know.

I would wish for a manual, that give me some hints of these matters and give workarounds.

Above the search filed there are placed at least 10 elements in different orientations and different scaling behaviour. Additionally, these elements are repositioned breakpointwise. So I believe, this exceeds – must exceed – the artificial intelligence of Muse.

I normaly twig one breakpoint and then the next breakpoint.
Again this is not a special design, it is standard at least for my 12 years expericence in webdesign.

If you place a rectangle (stretched to browser width) between the blue rectangle and the "Search" field (as you have already done in"start Kopie") all works well.

This is a workaround yes, I have found it by chance though (after hours!!!!) . When I make the rectangle transparent, it works also in layouts with page background colour. What a relief!

I think, in the actual stage of development, we have to use such "workarounds", because Muse really can’t decide without any doubt, which elements should interact with wich others. I think, it is even more difficult, if the decisive element is a 3rd party widget, from which we don’t know at all, how it is expected to behave. Perhaps it will never be possible, to resolve such ambiguous situations in an always satisfying way.

In my case the third party is not the problem, place a normal pinned rectangel, it is the same.

I am aware off that third party widget can be very painful and can make hugh errors, therefore I only use 2 widget providers ( and not at one site together) to keep conflicts away.

But at least we need third party widgets, because Muse itself does not provide enough widgets itself to catch up with professional webdesign business. This is my point of view.

Therefore: Simply help Muse in finding the correct decisions (in this case by adding a browser wide rectangle.).

Thank you again!

[Günter Heißenbüttel]

Again: Your page has – inclusive the 3rd party "search field" – 9 main elements with all possible scaling variants and positions:

1. Text field "Frauenarzt …", scaling horizontally, growing vertically, unpinned.
2. Image container "blue circle", scaling proportionally, left pinned.
3. Blue text element to the right, not scaling, growing vertically, right pinned.
4. Orange text object ("Tel"), not scaling, growing vertically, right pinned, repositioned in breakpoints.
5. Manual menu, set to uniform distance, pinned to the right, uniform spacing, therefore scaling impossible.,
6. Image ("water"), scaling proportionally, unpinned.
7. Semitransparent text element ("xxx"), scaling responsive width, growing vertically), forced to stay in place vertically by a grouped, transparent image placeholder.
8. 3rd party search field,  pinned to the right, not scaling
9. 3 textcontainers (("headlines", "headlines", address)
10. … and some other elements at the bottom, which are not important in our context.
11. Most of these elements have different sizes and different, unaligned positions on the page.
12. And you are saying, this is a "very, very standard design"? Perhaps it is. But you are dealing with a young visual web layouter and not a coding application or a design app using more or less fixed templates. A design like that is not very complicated in this context, but it is not as simple as the same layout in print design.
13. Just one example: Take your file and delete the "Tel pinned" field, and many elements behave completely different; delete the circle top left and the title within, and you’ll see a different behaviour again. Where from should Muse know which of all these scattered elements should be "responsible to push another one (or 2, or all) down?

That is one thing. The other thing is, that you, as an experienced web designer, really should analyse your site correctly: The text block and the search filed don’t move "way to far down". They stay in place. It is the image, which shrinks and is responsible for the growing "gap" underneath, giving the impression of downwards moving objects! To analyse such a layout exactly certainly is the only way to fix upcoming problems.

I tried – once more – to fix the site. Here the result:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8uez76vd8b5jf8b/www.bugmuse_Mod.zip?dl=0

Please note: This is all but perfect. It isn’t my site, and I don’t earn money with it. But it shows, that there is much more possible in a simple way, as you probably assume. Most of the remaining "issues" can be fixed by adding breakpoints.

[sonnenundmondschein]

Hallo Günter,

thank you so much for your example file. It helps me very much to understand how different workarounds work.

I deeply appreciate your help. This and in former times. Thank you for your patience.

Let me explain, I come from another web application. I saw the tutorial videos and tested Muse and I had great hopes. Switched completely to Muse.

I am truly willing to learn, but does a video or manual exist with these workarounds? I am not aware off. Am I perhaps wrong?

These obstacles in not knowing how to solve these tasks make me feel helpless and are very time consuming.

I would never have got to your workaround with trial and error.

No web application is perfect, all struggle more or less with responsive design or their tools how to achieve responsive design.

When I said this is standard design, I mean that, (Never would compare web with print design) from a general design view, but also from a clients views.

When Muse is for professional (web)designers and also provide their app in a high cost segment, I honestly expect more.

But it helps me, when you remind me this is a young visual web layouter. I set all my hopes in its future.

But a note for the developers, to make a living of webdesign it needs indeed quick workflows.

And finally, I am sorry for not being able to describe my responsive Webdesign problems in more accurate english. It is not my mother tongue.

But I did not like to write in german in order to let other follow our discussion.

Thanks again for your time, patience and your efforts to support the Muse community with your knowledge.

Hanna