24 Replies Latest reply on Mar 28, 2017 9:27 AM by JimHess

    lightroom cc catalog

    davidp27753768 Level 1

      I use carbon copy cloner to clone my lightroom catalogs and photos from one external hard drive to another.  I organize my photos within folders by dates. However, the cloned version does not show all of the photos for the dates that are in the original EHD.  I can't figure out why this is. I'm concerned that if my original EHD crashes, how will I find the cloned photos within a portfolio if it is not showing up or, worse, if it hasn't been cloned.

      thanks,

      David

        • 1. Re: lightroom cc catalog
          JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          You are probably aware of this, but just to clarify. The catalog backup does not backup the image files. You have to configure your backup strategy to handle the image backups.

          • 2. Re: lightroom cc catalog
            davidp27753768 Level 1

            Thanks Jim.  I am aware that the images themselves also need to be backedup. So when I clone, I am cloning the catalog in addition to the original photos. But the original photos are not showing up in the cloned catalog although they do show up in the cloned EHD. In other words, the cloned EHD has the cloned image files but those images are not showing up in the cloned catalog.

            • 3. Re: lightroom cc catalog
              JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              I don't understand. If the images have been imported prior to the clone then they should be part of the cloned catalog. Maybe I am not understanding the issue.

              • 4. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                dj_paige Level 9

                I don't understand either.

                In other words, the cloned EHD has the cloned image files but those images are not showing up in the cloned catalog.

                The cloned images file should NOT show up in the cloned catalog. Please explain further why you say this, and if possible show us a screen capture to illustrate.

                • 5. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                  JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  Just to clarify what I meant to say, if the images have been imported to the Lightroom catalog  prior to the cloning then those images should be part of the folder tree in the cloned catalog. If they haven't been imported then they won't be seen.

                  • 6. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    The cloned catalog file should still point to the original (not the cloned) photos.

                    • 7. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                      JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Yeah, you're right. The cloned photos are not in the same location as the original photos. Therefore they will not be in the catalog.  If the OP has to resort to his cloned images they would have to be restored to the original location in order to have  the Lightroom catalog automatically pick them up.

                      • 8. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                        davidp27753768 Level 1

                        But what happens if the original photos are on the original EHD and that drive crashes.

                        • 9. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                          dj_paige Level 9

                          davidp27753768  wrote

                           

                          But what happens if the original photos are on the original EHD and that drive crashes.

                          Then you restore the cloned copies of photos to the exact same location on the drive with the same name, and restored the cloned catalog to anywhere that has write permission; and you are ready to go. On Windows, if the EHD was (for example) drive F:, then the replacement new drive also has to be drive F: and on a MAC, the replacement drive should have the same actual name as the crashed drive.

                          • 10. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            The idea behind the backup is that you have the images backed up in the same folder structure that they are in currently on the original EHD. If that drive crashes and has to be replaced then the images are restored from the backup to the new EHD. They should have the same folder structure as they did before, so all you should have to do is go to work. If the catalog crashes then all you have to do is restore the catalog to its original location and it's business as usual. Lightroom is not designed to keep track of cloned backup images.

                            • 11. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                              davidp27753768 Level 1

                              Here are my two EHDs. I am cloning from the first to the second.

                               

                              The “David” EHD has these two folders and the Toshiba has the cloned folders.

                               

                               

                              The photos  from “David” PHOTOS GO HERE  also appear in the Toshiba EHD as PHOTOD GO HERE (cloned). But some of the images showing within the Lightroom catalogs from “David” EHD are not showing up in the Toshiba EHD.

                              The catalog in the “David” EHD is:

                              The cloned catalog, since is in the Toshiba EHD, appears as: 

                               

                               

                              What can I show that might explain better?

                               

                              Davud

                              • 12. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                davidp27753768 Level 1

                                Are you, Jim, saying the same thing as dj_paige?

                                David

                                • 13. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                  davidp27753768 Level 1

                                  Sorry, i just sent an email that had copies of names of EHDs and catalogs and photos to show things better but they didn’t copy onto the conversation so I’m sure it doesn’t make any sense.

                                  David

                                  • 14. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                    dj_paige Level 9

                                    You can't e-mail images. You have to use a web browser and access this forum on the web and then attach photos to the message using the "Insert Image" icon.

                                     

                                    But some of the images showing within the Lightroom catalogs from “David” EHD are not showing up in the Toshiba EHD.


                                    And we're still not 100% sure what you mean by this, please show us screen captures that illustrate the matter.

                                    • 15. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                      davidp27753768 Level 1

                                      "If the catalog crashes then all you have to do is restore the catalog to its original location and it's business as usual."

                                       

                                      Let me see if I get this now.

                                       

                                      1. The original EHD crashes and so I have lost both the catalog and the original photos that were on it.

                                      2. I copy the cloned photos from the backup EHD onto a new EHD

                                      3. This is the part I'm not sure of.   I copy the cloned catalog onto the new EHD and the catalog will link up with the copied photos?

                                       

                                      David

                                      • 16. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                        dj_paige Level 9

                                        I think it should have said

                                         

                                        If the catalog crashes then all you have to do is restore the catalog to its original location and the photos to their original location, and it's business as usual

                                        • 17. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                          davidp27753768 Level 1

                                          What do you mean by "the photos to their original location"?

                                          When i restore the catalog on a new EHD and also have on it the clones of the photos, the images do not appear in the catalog

                                          • 18. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                            JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            If I am understanding you correctly, "David" is your working hard drive. If I understand you correctly, you have your photos and catalog on that EHD. It seems to me that from what you have said the Toshiba EHD contains the cloned images. So here is how I would recommend that you work.

                                             

                                             

                                            Do your editing as always on the David hard drive. When Lightroom prompts you for a backup of the catalog allow the backup to be written to the Toshiba EHD. When the images are backed up, allow them to be backed up to the Toshiba EHD in the same folder structure that they are in currently on the David EHD.

                                             

                                             

                                            If only the catalog crashes on David, restore the latest backup from Toshiba and put it in the same folder on David as it was in before. If the images crash or the entire David EHD crashes, replace the David EHD, naming it David like it was before. Then you would copy the catalog from Toshiba to the same folder that it was in previously on David. That means you might have to re-create that folder. Then copy your image backup from Toshiba back to David (the new David). If you have backed up properly you will have the same folder structure that you had on the old David. Now you have a new David with a restored catalog backup and images copied from Toshiba. Then all you have to do is start Lightroom by double-clicking on the catalog on David. And THEN it should be business as usual. What WILL be lost is any editing that was done since the last catalog backup.

                                             

                                             

                                            Your communication is still a little bit confusing. Lightroom is not going to keep track of the images on David as well as the images on Toshiba. Toshiba is a backup. Lightroom doesn't care where that backup is. You care because that is where you get your catalog and your images from in the event of a hard drive crash.

                                            • 19. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                              davidp27753768 Level 1

                                              Yes, that is correct.  My working drive is David and the backup drive is Toshiba. I now understand that my catalog backups from David should go onto the Toshiba drive, which I didn't realize before.

                                               

                                              "When the images are backed up , allow them to be backed up to the Toshiba EHD"--how? via carbon copy cloner? via copy/paste?

                                               

                                              "if only the catalog crashes on David, restore the latest backup from Toshiba and put it in the same folder on David as it was in before"

                                              ?how . how to"put it in the same folder on David as it was in before"?

                                               

                                              What do you mean "might have to re-create the folder"? how?

                                               

                                              It seems that when I copy the Toshiba images, they retain the volume/path named Toshiba.

                                              • 20. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                                JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                I don't know anything about carbon copy cloner. You will have to configure it however it has to be configured. Or, if you prefer you can copy and paste. I shouldn't have to teach you how to do your backups. You're doing it. It's best if you understand what you're doing.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                If you are using Lightroom 6 or Lightroom CC then your catalog backup is in a zip file, hopefully on the Toshiba drive. You have to configure Lightroom and specify the folder where that backup is created. If you have to restore the backup you will find the zip file and double-click on it and then extract or copy the catalog. Once the catalog has been extracted you can copy it to wherever you want it to go. Surely you know how to copy files. Just copy the catalog to the folder on David. I'm talking about the backup catalog that you restore on Toshiba. Just copy that restored catalog to the folder on David that contained the catalog before.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                If you install a new hard drive because the old one crashed then you will create the folder using either Finder on the Mac or File Explorer on Windows.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Hopefully, you have all of your image folders within one master folder. If you have to copy that master folder from Toshiba back to David because you installed a new drive, just copy that one master folder of images. The subfolders will copy as well.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                How much computer understanding you have? If you don't know how to make folders or do simple copying that I strongly suggest you enroll in a class at a community college or technology school and get some basic computer understanding.

                                                • 21. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                                  dj_paige Level 9

                                                  You are making this way too difficult.

                                                   

                                                  Let's assume your original drive was named ORIGINAL, and the backup drive was named BACKUP. The catalog file was stored in ORIGINAL\Catalog and the photos were stored in subfolders under ORIGINAL\Pictures, then you copy the backup of the catalog file to ORIGINAL\Catalog, and you copy the backups of the photos to be under ORIGINAL\Pictures, in the exact same subfolders (the subfolders are something your carbon copy cloner should maintain).

                                                  • 22. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                                    JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    I'm wondering if we have just been duped by someone who wants to jerk us around a little bit. I ran into a situation like that a few years ago. Can't prove anything, just wondering.

                                                    • 23. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                                      davidp27753768 Level 1

                                                      I can assure you that I am not “jerking you around”.  My issue is to be sure that I can recover all of my work/images/catalogs that I have worked on on my “working External Hard Drive” when it crashes which it will at some point in time. I have about 60,000  images on it which I use in Lightroom. I backup online using CrashPlan but also want to have backup/recoverability in my office at home with a new replacement EHD when my current working drive crashes. As I have previously said, I have a backup EHD in my office but have not been able to recover all of the catalogs and images that are on it.

                                                      Having said that, I will try the “way too difficult” recommendation on a dry run to see if it will solve the problem.  Will let you know hopefully later today if it works.

                                                      • 24. Re: lightroom cc catalog
                                                        JimHess Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        Well I'm sorry if I offended you. But some of your questions are so elementary that it made me wonder. If you know how to create folders and name them, and copy things around using your system tools, then the instructions you have been given are relatively simple. You have to devise your own backup scheme for your images. You control where your catalog backups are stored. If you know what your backup images are stored  and where your catalog backups are stored then it's relatively easy to remove the crashed hard drive, replace it with a new one, create a couple of folders and then recover your backup images and your backup catalog.