19 Replies Latest reply on Apr 5, 2017 10:24 AM by paulp90612957

    RAW colors problem

    paulp90612957

      pspr.jpgSince a few days I have this problem with raw files. Anyone have any idea? Red go to purple and all pictures are a little bit darker.

        • 1. Re: RAW colors problem
          D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          That's a defective monitor profile. Recalibrate.

           

          Windows Photo Viewer is fully color managed, and these two should display absolutely identically. All color managed applications should always display identically (that's the whole point).

           

          Broken monitor profiles can often affect different applications differently.

           

          If you're not using a calibrator, you probably got a bad manufacturer profile through Windows Update. In that case replace it with sRGB IEC61966-2.1 for now (use Adobe RGB if your monitor is a wide gamut model). Relaunch all apps so that they can load the new profile at startup.

          Displayprofile_2.png

          • 2. Re: RAW colors problem
            paulp90612957 Level 1

            Thanks for help, but I've made the calibration and also I set up sRGB IEC61966-2.1  in Color Management. The problem still persist.ad1.JPGad2.JPG

            • 3. Re: RAW colors problem
              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              Did you relaunch both apps after changing profile?

               

              Is this a dual display setup? There have been some reported cases where ACR uses the profile for the other (wrong) display. Try to switch main and secondary.

              • 4. Re: RAW colors problem
                paulp90612957 Level 1

                ps1.pngps2.png

                 

                I have only one display, you can see my settings.

                • 5. Re: RAW colors problem
                  D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  How does it look in Photoshop?

                   

                  You did relaunch after changing profile? I have to ask because that's important.

                  • 6. Re: RAW colors problem
                    ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    Turn of the GPU/Graphics-Processor in Ctrl-K setting within the plug-in.  Does anything change?

                    If this only happens with raws, and you’re comparing with what you see in Windows Photo Viewer, then isn’t the issue merely that you’re viewing the camera JPG processing in WPV (as shown in the camera-embedded jpg preview of the raw) with the Adobe default processing?  The camera-processing and Adobe-processing wouldn’t be identical, usually, so what you’re seeing may be normal.

                     

                    The display profile what most of this thread is about, so far, or the GPU, is likely only the issue if you’re seeing a difference in newly-opened JPGs as well as raws.

                    • 7. Re: RAW colors problem
                      D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Indeed. Are we really looking at shooting raw + jpeg here? In that case everything's normal.

                       

                      OTOH if Windows Photo Viewer is showing the processed raw file, then display profile and/or GPU is the only possible explanation. Not only the most likely, but the only possible.

                      • 8. Re: RAW colors problem
                        paulp90612957 Level 1

                        1. I relaunched, even restart my laptop. With new color management (sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ), after I open a RAW file and import in Photoshop, it looks moreee darker.

                        19999.png  29999.png

                         

                        2. If I open a JPEG in Photoshop, looks like in Windows Photo Viewer, identical. Only RAW files looks diferent  from Windows Photo Viewer (even I import raw files in Photoshop)gpu.png

                         

                        3. I turned off the GPU and nothing change (I attached a picture where I found the setting).

                         

                        4. I don't think it is normal, with one Month ago, everything was ok (maybe were little differences that I haven't noticed)

                         

                        5. I shooting raw+jpeg.

                        • 9. Re: RAW colors problem
                          ssprengel Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          One of each of the side-by-side comparison shots is from Windows Photo Viewer, so while WPV is color managed on newer OSes, it would be showing the camera-embedded JPG preview or a Microsoft-raw-engine rendering, at best, compared to whatever we’re seeing in Adobe software.

                           

                          So is the problem that the raw-in-Adobe and the raw-in-MS or JPG-in-MS aren’t the same?  If so then that is to be expected, although you might be able to get the Adobe rendering to match the camera at little more if you set the Camera Profile to Camera Standard (or whatever Camera-centric color profile you like) instead of Adobe Standard, all in the Camera Calibration tab of the Adobe Camera Raw plug-in.

                          • 10. Re: RAW colors problem
                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            No wonder you have color inconsistencies when you have color management "off"!

                             

                            Set it back to where it was, set color management policies to "preserve embedded profiles", and don't touch it again.

                             

                            There's this idea out on the internet that turning color management off ensures color consistency. That's a complete misunderstanding. It's the opposite - color management was invented to solve these exact problems. And it does.

                            • 11. Re: RAW colors problem
                              paulp90612957 Level 1

                              I set everything back, now exist  only the initial problem.

                               

                              " So is the problem that the raw-in-Adobe and the raw-in-MS or JPG-in-MS aren’t the same? "  The raw is different from JPEG, also the raw in Photoshop, is different from JPEG. But JPEG directly in Photoshop have no problem. Only raw files has different colours. Unsolvable yet.

                              • 12. Re: RAW colors problem
                                D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                You need to step back and make sure the color management chain is operating all the way from original file to monitor.

                                 

                                It's a simple checklist:

                                • The file must have an embedded document profile, and it must be the correct one. For raw files in ACR this is handled automatically with no way to disable - it's always there (linear gamma ProPhoto).
                                • You must have a valid monitor profile set up at system level. In your case that's sRGB - not ideal, but at least basically sound and it should work as intended.
                                • You must view the file in a color managed application that reads both these profiles and correctly converts from one into the other.

                                 

                                If you can check these three, images will by definition display identically. There's simply no way they can not display identically, even if they are in different color spaces to begin with. (The only exception is if you have a wide gamut display, wider than one of the document color spaces. In that case you will see gamut differences between those two).

                                 

                                If they don't display identically, that means the color management chain is breaking down somewhere. Common points of breakdown are - and note how this corresponds to the three points above:

                                • wrong or missing document profile
                                • a broken/defective/wrong display profile
                                • a defective conversion process, usually in a buggy video driver if the application is set up to do color management in the GPU. Or, obviously, an application without color management at all.

                                 

                                ---

                                 

                                Now, just to be specific with your previous setting of color management "off". The thing is, you can't really turn it off, you can just remove the references. There will always be a working space, and the files will be displayed according to that. And to make it even worse, the embedded document profile gets stripped with this setting.

                                 

                                So what you had was an Adobe RGB file from ACR, but the Adobe RGB profile was stripped, and the file displayed as if it was sRGB - which it wasn't. And furthermore, it would be saved out without a profile, and so any other application would display it according to whatever default they had.

                                 

                                As you can see - anything can happen. Color management "off" is just a disaster on every level.

                                • 13. Re: RAW colors problem
                                  paulp90612957 Level 1

                                  Can you please tell me more Exactly what I need to do?

                                   

                                  Referring to check list, at first point you Said "it's always there" so I can't do anything about it. At point two, as you said, I have sRGB virtual device model profile (but  the problem persist even with sRGB IEC61966-2.1). Finally, at point three, already I said what programs I use.

                                  • 14. Re: RAW colors problem
                                    D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    First of all - when you set profile in Windows Color Management - don't use the "virtual device" WCS profile. That's not a standard icc-spec profile and won't work as intended. It has other purposes. You must use sRGB IEC61966-2.1 specifically.

                                     

                                    With that out of the way, let's take one variable at a time here.

                                     

                                    The first and most important test is this: Do you see any differences between ACR and the same raw file opened from ACR into Photoshop?

                                    acr_screen.png

                                    I'm assuming here that you set your color management policies back to "preserve embedded profiles".

                                     

                                    If there is a difference here, there are only two possible explanations. Bad display profile, or GPU color management not working as it should.

                                     

                                    Next you can compare Photoshop to Windows Photo Viewer the same way.

                                    • 15. Re: RAW colors problem
                                      paulp90612957 Level 1

                                      inf.png

                                       

                                       

                                      I set up again sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and preserve embedded profiles in Photoshop.

                                      In your picture, on my display the file from ACR is more brighter than the ACR in Photoshop.

                                       

                                      You can see the differences : the firs picture is raw file opened from ACR into Photoshop, the second picture is raw file open in ACR and the last one is jpeg file opened in Windows photo viewer.

                                      • 16. Re: RAW colors problem
                                        D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        paulp90612957  wrote

                                         

                                        on my display the file from ACR is more brighter than the ACR in Photoshop.

                                         

                                        No, it is not, you are just one of many being tricked by the dark interface in Photoshop. Those two are identical, so we can safely assume that everything here is working as it should, and that this is the correct version.

                                         

                                        As for Windows Photo Viewer - this really, really looks like it's showing the embedded jpeg, not the processed raw file. Just as ssprengel suggested. So the question is - how did this jpeg arrive in Windows Photo Viewer? Where does it come from?

                                         

                                        The embedded jpeg will not match the ACR processed raw file. It's not supposed to, this is Canon's choice of rendering vs. Adobe's rendering.

                                         

                                        The only other possible explanation is that you have somehow managed to disable color management in WPV: In that case this is again an expected difference.

                                        • 17. Re: RAW colors problem
                                          paulp90612957 Level 1

                                          Probably you are right and I'm tricked by the dark interface in Photoshop.

                                          But I swear, my problem appeared recently, before everything was ok. Surely now exist a problem. Indeed  I read about Canon files open in Photoshop, but I repeat, everything was ok, with same camera, same laptop.

                                           

                                          Jpeg come from my camera, I photographed in raw+jpeg.

                                           

                                          Maybe you are right and the problem is GPU, but I don't know exactly what. Also I uninstalled all programs installed recently, no change.

                                           

                                          It is possible before this problem, raw files opened in ACR were a little bit darker or brighter (don't bother me). Now, as you can see red/orange colors are affected.

                                          • 18. Re: RAW colors problem
                                            D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            paulp90612957  wrote

                                             

                                            Jpeg come from my camera, I photographed in raw+jpeg.

                                             

                                            Ah, OK, finally we got to the bottom of it.

                                             

                                            Everything here is perfectly normal and working as it should.

                                             

                                            As has been pointed out several times, the camera jpeg will not match ACR, it's not supposed to. The camera jpeg is processed in camera, by Canon's camera firmware, and represents Canon's idea of how the image should look.

                                             

                                            In ACR you're supposed to create your own rendering. The ACR defaults are just a starting point. The rest is up to you.

                                             

                                            There is no such thing as a "correct" or "accurate" rendering of a raw file. You can look up a large number of previous threads here concerning this.

                                            • 19. Re: RAW colors problem
                                              paulp90612957 Level 1

                                              Ok, thank you very much for your help !