10 Replies Latest reply on Apr 4, 2017 3:21 PM by shannonwbrown

    Negative Space After Style?

    shannonwbrown

      Below is an image of what I'm trying to accomplish. I attempted to make the graphic as simple as possible although I have some more complex instances of this in a fairly complex book layout.

       

      Notes:

      • I know that I can simply create an alternate body style with less space before the paragraph and assign it to the paragraphs that follow the head. But, I'm trying to learn how to do something in a more automatic manner to save lots of time applying styles.
      • I prefer to work with space before rather than space after and would run into the same problem in reverse.

       

      Ideally I could set a "negative" space in the space after panel for the head style, but I don't think this is doable.

       

      Any suggestions?

       

      styles-question.jpg

        • 1. Re: Negative Space After Style?
          BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

          Is this the desired outcome? More space between Body paragraphs but less under the Heads?

          InDesign CCss_005.png

          1 person found this helpful
          • 3. Re: Negative Space After Style?
            BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

            Ok! I set up two paragraph styles—one for the Heading and one for the Body paragraphs.

             

            In the Body paragraph,  I set the space after to 1p0 in Indents and Spacing.

             

            InDesign CCss_001.png

            For the Heading paragraph, I set the space after to 0p2 also in Indents and Spacing.

            InDesign CCss_002.png

            You can, of course, use any numbers that you like.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 4. Re: Negative Space After Style?
              shannonwbrown Level 1

              Thank you for taking the time to interact with me. If you read my original post I acknowledged that I'm a "space before" person whereas others are "space after" designers. It's really relative as far as I can tell because if you solve my problem using "space after," I will have the same problem in reverse.

               

              On your first screenshot it occurred to me that perhaps I need to assign BOTH a "space before" and "space after" for my various styles.

               

              Of course, I wish my book design consisted of only a couple styles, but because it's a curriculum it has probably 25 styles. I'm thinking it will probably be worth my while to spend the time to fine-tune all of this.

               

              Ideally, I would be able to assign "conditions" to paragraph styles. So, for example, If "body" is preceded by "head" then over-ride the primary spacing and using conditional spacing.

              • 5. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                BarbBinder Adobe Community Professional

                Ideally, I would be able to assign "conditions" to paragraph styles. So, for example, If "body" is preceded by "head" then over-ride the primary spacing and using conditional spacing.

                That would be ideal, but it's not a feature of InDesign styles.

                 

                And yes, I did see your preference, but selected the approach that would meet your stated needs. Using just space before can't get you to what you showed in your screen shot.

                 

                 

                 

                • 6. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                  TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  I think you would need to create separate styles (e.g. "BodyText" and "BodyTextFollowingHeading") which is what I do all the time.

                   

                  Then, to actually apply the styles, it's best with a script. There are both free scripts and paid ones that will do this:

                   

                  Free:

                  https://indesignsecrets.com/find-change-the-next-paragraph-style-with-a-script.php

                   

                  Or my own paid version:

                  https://www.id-extras.com/products/change-consecutive-paragraphs

                   

                  (In the comments section I also mention the "Pro" version, which lets you save all these replacements so they can be run automatically the next time you create a similar document).

                   

                  Ariel

                  • 7. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                    shannonwbrown Level 1

                    Ariel, The way you suggested of creating a separate paragraph style is how I've been doing it. The manual process of assigning those styles is what my post was in response to. I was looking for a better way

                     

                    The script you have looks perfect! I will run the trial and if it works well I will purchase the paid version. This could be a huge timesaver for me with various projects.

                    • 8. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                      TᴀW Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Great. I'm a typesetter myself (well, at least part time) so all these scripts are workhorses -- put to daily, real-world use...

                      • 9. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                        jane-e Adobe Community Professional

                        shannonwbrown  wrote

                         

                        If you read my original post I acknowledged that I'm a "space before" person whereas others are "space after" designers.

                         

                         

                        Out of curiosity, why aren't you a "doing it efficiently" person instead of insisting on using one method that may involve more effort  and time? I mean this politely, because I really don't understand.

                        • 10. Re: Negative Space After Style?
                          shannonwbrown Level 1

                          I'm all about being efficient, hence the reason for my post. I will gladly learn any new technique or use any unknown feature to make my work better and faster. You'll notice that I greatly appreciated Ariel pointing me to a script that will save me lots of time.

                           

                          My point about being a "space before" versus "space after" is because it's one of those dumb designer identifiers (for fun) between me and some fellow InDesign users. Just geek stuff. It's entirely a very minor preference and doesn't make a bit of difference, I was just trying to pre-empt the obvious answer that you change your space after to solve my problem, because while that would solve the problem initially it would introduce the same problem in reverse.