7 Replies Latest reply on Apr 18, 2017 2:26 PM by rob day

    Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?

    adamh88

      I was wondering if anyone knows if you use the Ink Manager to convert Pantone Spot Colors to CMYK in InDesign is the outcome an official Pantone recommended value?

        • 1. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Not if you are using the current Pantone + Solid ink libraries. The ink Manager conversion is a color managed conversion from the Pantone Lab values into your document's CMYK space.

           

          Pantone now provides device dependent process CMYK simulations via the Pantone + Bridge libraries

           

          If you are using tints of a solid ink spot color see this thread:

           

          Re: Ink Manager Bug/Problem?

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          • 2. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
            adamh88 Level 1

            Thanks for the response! What exactly do you mean by "color managed"?

             

            So if I know my pantone color that I want to find out the recommend CMYK value for--can I use the website below? Surely the CMYK value on the website is the same as what would be in the physical printed formula guide? The issue I see with Pantone's recommend CMYK value is that it looks pretty far off from the Pantone Color. At least to me, looking at it on screen(which I know isn't a very reliable representation), the Ink Manager does a better job of matching the pantone color. My Pantone color is 802 C. Pantone recommends 51 0 85 0 and Ink Manager uses 67 0 100 0.

             

            I assume Illustrator does the same thing--in terms of "color managing" the conversion? If I open the 802c swatch, it gives me a CMYK breakdwon of 67 0 100 0 as well.

             

            PANTONE 802 C - find a PANTONE Color

            • 3. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              What exactly do you mean by "color managed"?

              InDesign uses its color management system to make the conversion from Pantone's Lab values—the CMYK value you will get depends on the document's CMYK profile and to a lesser extent the Color Settings' Conversion Options. Pantone no longer provides CMYK values for the solid color libraries, they now provide separate libraries for CMYK simulations of their solid inks—Pantone + Bridge.

               

              Pantone's definition for 802c is Lab 75|-63|63. The CMYK conversion numbers will change if you change the document's assigned profile (Edit>Assign Profiles...). So the default US SWOP Coated converts 802 to 67|0|100|0, but US Sheetfed Coated converts to 58|0|100|0.

               

              802c is in the Pantone + Pastels & Neons Coated library and most neon colors are very much out side of the printable CMYK gamut, so no CMYK values will reproduce your color. There is not a Bridge library for the neon colors probably for that reason.

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              • 4. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
                adamh88 Level 1

                So is it completely by chance that the InDesign converts the color, using the US Sheetfed Coated profile, to the same CMYK breakdown that Pantone recommends? I find that odd.

                • 5. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
                  rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  to the same CMYK breakdown that Pantone recommends? I find that odd.

                  The values listed on the page you linked to are 58|0|85|0 not 58|0|100|0.

                   

                  InDesign’s Color Settings’ Conversion Options Intent setting would also have an effect. Setting the Intent to Perceptual along with US Sheetfed gives me 59|0|97|0. I don’t think Pantone publishes how they come up with their conversions, but there isn't a single set of CMYK values that would work under all printing conditions and that's one of the reasons as of CS6 the Pantone Solid Spot color values are now defined as Lab.

                   

                  If you want to bypass the InDesign color conversion use the Bridge Libraries. Those swatches should match the numbers listed on Pantone’s site. For example here’s 7490CP:

                   

                  pantone.png

                   

                  Screen Shot 2017-04-18 at 4.29.07 PM.png

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                  • 6. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
                    adamh88 Level 1

                    Thanks for the responses Rob, you've been very helpful! I really appreciate it. You said earlier that some colors, like 802c, do not have a CMYK match. Is the Bridge Library Pantone's attempt at providing a group of colors that have a relatively close CMYK match to the Pantone Color?

                    • 7. Re: Does Ink Manager use official Pantone recommended values?
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      Is the Bridge Library Pantone's attempt at providing a group of colors that have a relatively close CMYK match to the Pantone Color?

                       

                      Yes they are defined as process CMYK values not spot colors. How closely the single CMYK definitions match Pantone's solid ink swatch books (they are not printed with CMYK inks) would depend on the printing conditions. With a neon color like 802 you won't get close with either a color managed conversion or using Pantone's suggested values.

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