2 Replies Latest reply on Apr 23, 2017 9:00 AM by Sam Paramojo

    HDRI workflow problems, help & answers please?

    Sam Paramojo Level 1

      Ok Ive finally worked out how to post to this forum, having equally been on Twitter with Adobe Care and just getting off the phone with a lovely chap in India per this case 0188873856 : Deepak K S


      Yet still, not really getting any definitive answers to my questions. In that firstly I think it was the Camera Raw update locking out its use when selecting the 32 bit option, open in Camera Raw, via the HDR Pro script. The reason for needing this workflow is so the bit depth and a bigger colour-space retains ALL the colour over the bracketed RAW images, their primary intent 3D application for HDRI Renderer global illumination as a stitched 360 map. Yet still being able to normalise exposure etc via way of a camera raw profile across all the HDR set ready for stitching into a 360 map and to downrez, for an app like Recap/Remake to be able to pull 3D Mesh data from the images yet have enough exposure definition to be able to do all its point matching.


      Obviously unless the HDR Pro script resulted combined bracketed images (initially just 3-1/3 for testing, then full 7-1 step once workflow sorted, 4K each raw image within Adobe 1998 in Camera setting) is within a bigger colour space and ideally as big a bit depth as possible, all that additional colour information will be lost. Looking at a previous PSD from when Cam Raw option was not switched off and bringing this in, it tells me it placed such in the Prophoto RGB (Linear RGB Profile space), for having set my working profile space as Adobe 1998 but with the perceptual option selected than the default relatively colourithimic, to allow for gamut shape anomalies (this might have been the real solution to why Cam Raw was switched off in this mode).


      The real question is, is Camera Raw going into a 32bit mode and in the same colourspace as the HDR Pro image created, to act as a proper filter, as if this is not the case it explains the why (its this I could not get an answer too).


      The other relates to creating HDR by going into Bridge and via Camera Raw, and again even though a 16 bit file can be created allowing for an adujustment preset to be used across images, the resulting image is not in a proper wider gamut colour space for HDR and the DNG file created when opened in Photoshop does not allow it to be saved in a HDR compatible format. This same principle then applies to say a 16 bit down conversion, when testing the setting file handling presets, aka [Use Adobe Raw to covert documents from 32bit to 16/8bit] which becomes rather useless if one cannot start in 32bit mode with camera raw in the first place & not being properly awaire of what colourspace things are within in Camera raw, per like a previous HDR Pro within a PSD file I tested, if it was not for testing the darn thing and it telling me if I wanted to convert to my default colour space. Be nice to have colour space shown like bit depth (like when in CYMK) in Photoshop and Camera raw for other colourspaces not only CYMK, and it clear what both is especially in Camera Raw.


      To sum up when dealing with HDR Pro native space I need it to be just that and know what colour space I end up within out of the bat and that Cam Raw is also in that space at the right bitdepth. That when in a HDR space images can be saved in HDR formats properly whichever method is use. Lastly that down conversion in my case to use the same images for use to create 3D Meshes with texture overlay in Recap, Remake or such reflect the perceptual adjustments as closely as possible too, as in my case its about dual use, and everything matching as closely as possible, because then the global HDR environment map will add the added lighting data back to the 3D mesh data and texture. In fact I will look at a way to replace the texture map with higher res/HDR images if possible too.


      I one last thing thats also Vitally important is that the integrity of the HDR Pro data (via that import method) and colour-space is retained when stitching it all together into a 360 image.


      Hopefully that covers everything, now for some answers and solutions please.




        • 1. Re: HDRI workflow problems, help & answers please?
          Sam Paramojo Level 1

          Just to pick up on this article that was passed to me by @Adobecare on Twitter


          Command 'Camera Raw filter' not available in Merge to HDR Pro


          The initial workaround is an oxymoron, in that its NOT applying it to a 32bit image as the resulting image or HDR combined set more accurately is NOT a 32 bit image. So the answer is simply you cannot currently apply a Camera Raw filter to a 32bit HDR, because as it states Camera Raw does not output 32bit (one of the answers I was looking for).


          The other issue is the wider gamut the HDR Pro script logically creates, if like most your default colour space is set to Adobe 1998, then its logically going to down convert to that or heck forbid the down convert check box in settings, simply makes the choice its self. The last if wishing to retain proper HDR for output in a compatible format one needs to know all this wider gamut colour information is going to be retained, 16bit is going to be a minimum bit depth in this regard, other methods like the one that results in a DNG seems to make it forget its actually HDR as the file formats one would expect to limited to per HDR Pro script are not their, which is likely due to the needed wider colour space.


          The only solution I can see for properly retaining HDR period and being able to export in a proper compatible format is doing adjustments in Photoshop its self and dropping out of the HDR Pro script/its default per the making Camera Raw not work at the moment in 32bit. The thing is as far as I know one cannot make presets for the corrections one does & its a whole lot more fiddly and counterintutive.


          The last is selecting the HDR Colourspace as default work-space and hope the down-convert actually uses this, then allows one to save as in a proper HDR format per the very script. More testing my side to come.


          HDR Colour Pallette

          One last note is like the CYMK colour space and pantone colours Id actually like to paint in a HDR colourspace for some fancy 360 concept design I can then convert to tops 3D via Recap/Remake or such (hence HDR photos as space reference to paint over) per the same intent as mentioned in my first post. So what would be really handy is a HDR palette within the HDR colourspace. In the short term might it be best to move into the CYMK space then do a perceptual colour profile convert back ?

          • 2. Re: HDRI workflow problems, help & answers please?
            Sam Paramojo Level 1

            OK got an interim workflow down for part one, here it is in pictures for the first part which simply leave Cam Raw well alone (help with automating please as laborious as heck, the bit that needs adjustment is whitepoint preview out else is just repeat, repeat, repeat), but Ill post separately on that), but sill missing the ability to be able to remove any lens artefacts, chromatic aberration, noise & vignetting which Id ideally want to do in Camera Raw in a 32Bit mode (or have the tools to hand inside Photoshop), before stitching (unless this will deal with this, hopefully HDR as HDRI too),  equally any tips on removing my Tripod & me in the monitor reflection, again likely do a fresh post on that.


            I am saving a HDR for each Set, having put each set in a folder of its own (a laborious task that needs automating too in its self, but needs to take out bracketing misfires in the process) as a backup and to test workflow when it comes to stitching, aka is it better or quicker using the wide Gamut PSDs or the HDRs for this.



            2017-04-22 (1).png

            2017-04-23 (1).png2017-04-22 (8).png2017-04-22 (10).png2017-04-22 (11).png2017-04-22 (6).png

            Sorry forgot to take a snapshot at this point on the other image, but its tick box if anything is moving in the frame or if say the tripod was shaky or it was taken hand held. Then fiddle with the white-point preview until its a little washed out, as the preview will look more dark in the once in the colour-space the preview ends up within.

            2017-04-22 (12).png2017-04-22 (13).png

            Then as you can see it then plonks ALL the complied True HDR data into the HUGE Prophoto RGB colourspace at 32 bits, YOU Must make sure this checkbox remains checked, when saving as a PSD for True HDR/HDRI or its likely to have a wobbler without. At this point as I say I also saved a HDR Pro file to do more testing later.