16 Replies Latest reply on Apr 25, 2017 7:33 PM by chzuck

    EXIF data for scanned photos

    chzuck Level 1

      I have scanned over 250 negatives from a vacation trip taken some time back.  Via Windows 10 I inserted a taken date for each of those scanned photos.  My problem is that for two rolls of those negatives scanned a capture date does not show in the EXIF Metadata window and consequently the photos are out of order.  What is causing this data not to appear in some rolls and not others?  I am using Lightroom 3.

        • 1. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

          I just tested Windows File Explorer, and it appears to be following the industry standards when changing what it calls Date Taken.  So I suggest uploading a sample problem photo to Dropbox or similar and posting the sharing link here.  We can put it under the microscope to figure out what's going on.

          • 2. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
            chzuck Level 1

            http://www.zucksrototillers.com/A001.jpg

            The above photo shows no date captured in Lightroom 3.

            • 3. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
              chzuck Level 1

              After posting the photo I imported the photos into Elements 10 Organizer and notice that those photos that did not have any dates in the EXIF data showed a much later date under the thumbnail.  I used Elements to change that date to when the photos were taken and then imported the photos into LR3 again and now the date taken info shows for all photos.  Don't have any idea why, but now I can proceed in making a slide show with the photos in the order I want them.  I know I could have re-arranged them by drag and drop, but it was a lot of photos and I wanted to know why the EXIF data was not there.

              • 4. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                http://www.zucksrototillers.com/A001.jpg

                The above photo shows no date captured in Lightroom 3.

                The EXIF:DateTimeOriginal field (aka capture date, aka date taken) in this file does not conform to the EXIF standard.  It is 19 bytes long, whereas the standard calls for it to be 20 bytes long:

                It's a fluke that some programs that aren't as carefully coded can still read the date -- they read 20 bytes anyway, and there just happens to be a 0 byte following the 19 bytes, so they read the correct data anyway.

                 

                LR generally takes a pretty strict approach to the standards, and thus rejects the field as invalid.

                 

                This is an elementary programming error -- which program did you use on Windows 10 to modify the date? Windows File Explorer or something else?

                • 5. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                  johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                  I used Elements to change that date to when the photos were taken and then imported the photos into LR3 again and now the date taken info shows for all photos. 

                  You can also change the capture date in LR using the Metadata > Edit Capture Time command.

                  • 6. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                    chzuck Level 1

                    I could not change the capture date in LR because there was none listed on 2 of the rolls.  However when I imported them into Elements Organizer those with no capture date in LR had a capture date in Elements 10 which equaled the date I scanned the negatives.  Some of the info I edited in a program called AnalogExif which allowed me to insert scanner data.  It has been a long process,  but I think I initially added the taken date in Windows 10 Explorer, because I was hoping it would put the photos in somewhat the order they were taken.  Thanks so much for your in depth analysis.

                    • 7. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                      chzuck Level 1

                      I initially put in a taken date in Windows File Explorer. 

                      Apparently this is not uncommon as I saw similar posts by others when working with scanned images.  A tutorial on how to process scanned images would be great.  The 275 photos I am working on were taken over 4 days with two cameras and I am trying to get them into the order they were taken to make a slide show.  I realize I will need to drag and drop some of the photos into the order I need them.  The way it was, those 2 rolls of shots were near the end instead at the beginning.  And apparently because of a date error that i could not see until I imported them into Elements.

                      • 8. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                        chzuck Level 1

                        What program did you use to find that data you posted?

                        • 9. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                          johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                          I could not change the capture date in LR because there was none listed on 2 of the rolls. 

                          I'm not sure I understand this.  You can apply the Metadata > Edit Capture Time command to any photo, regardless of whether LR was able to read the date.  Here's the command invoked on your sample photo:

                          I often apply the command to scans that are missing capture times.

                          • 10. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                            johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                            Some of the info I edited in a program called AnalogExif which allowed me to insert scanner data. 

                            I just downloaded AnalogExif for Mac and tried setting the field it calls Photo > Original Capture Time. It wrote a 19-byte string rather than a 20-byte string as called for by the standard.  In my test of Windows File Explorer (Windows 10), it wrote a 20-byte string.   So it looks like AnalogExif is the culprit.    Looks like it hasn't received an update in four years.

                            • 11. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                              johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                              What program did you use to find that data you posted?

                              I use Exiftool, by far the most authoritative tool for examining file metadata (far more authoritative than Adobe's products, for example).  It's got a pretty steep learning curve, especially if you're not experienced with command-line tools.

                              • 12. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                                johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                when I imported them into Elements Organizer those with no capture date in LR had a capture date in Elements 10 which equaled the date I scanned the negatives. 

                                Most likely, PSE couldn't read the capture date either, and it used the file creation or file modification time instead.

                                • 13. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                                  chzuck Level 1

                                  Now I see where it is, right in front of me and I could not see it!  Thank you so much for all of your help and patience with my ignorance!

                                  • 14. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                                    chzuck Level 1

                                    I will be deleting AnalogExif!

                                    • 15. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                                      johnrellis Most Valuable Participant

                                      A tutorial on how to process scanned images would be great. 

                                      I've scanned over 7,000 slides and have at least as many to go.  Here's part of what I do to process all the slides from a roll:

                                       

                                      1. Before scanning, I sort them by the sequence number printed on the slide.  Sometimes rolls are jumbled together, so I have to sort that out too, doing one roll at a time.
                                      2. I scan the slides in order of their sequence number, having the scanner software assign increasing sequence numbers to the scans.
                                      3. I import the scans into LR and then sort the imported photos by filename.
                                      4. I transfer roll and processing information from the slide mount to fields in the Metadata panel: e.g. Kodachrome, 4, JUN81 W4. 
                                      5. Using a plugin similar to Capture Time To Exif, I select a sequence of photos all taken on the same day, and set their capture times to mm/dd/yyyy 12:00:01, 12:00:02, 12:00:03, etc.   Though the EXIF standard supports partial date/times (e.g. where the date is known but the time isn't), LR doesn't support partial date/times.  So my convention is that times close to 12:00:00 represent "unknown time".  Assigning them increasing seconds lets me sort a large selection of photos by capture time, and the shots from a roll will be properly ordered.   Similarly, if I don't known the month or day, I'll use January 1 12:00:00. 
                                      6. Occasionally I'll need to insert a sequence of photos into a previously ordered sequence, e.g. when the roll has gotten split up and I'm scanning slides from the roll at different times.  I put all of the slides from that day into the Quick Collection and use drag and drop to get them in the proper order.  (This is aided by the information I copied from the slide mount into LR's Metadata panel.) Then I'll resequence their capture times using the plugin.

                                       

                                      The result is that all of the slides are assigned accurate capture dates and times so that sorting Library by capture time shows the slides in the order they were shot.

                                      • 16. Re: EXIF data for scanned photos
                                        chzuck Level 1

                                        Thank you.  I saved your write up because I will be doing some slides in the future.  For negatives it is a little harder to read the numbers, but I did and have the scans in the proper order.  One thing that makes it a little messy is that I used two cameras and I need to insert the second camera's photos at the right place.  I should be able to drag and drop for that.