How to Export Full Range Video from AP

[FutureX5]

When I look at my camera footage in Premiere I see on my external scope that certain shots are not legal.  This is fine but I want to render the full range "illegal" footage to bring into DaVinci.  As it is now when I render the clip, whatever codec I use in Premiere always clamps/clips the footage to make it legal.  I want that extra information in DaVinci.  I can't see any way to render the full range in Premiere, is it possible? 

Thanks!

[Meg The Dog]

Are you seeing this behavior in the Lumetri Scopes?

On the bottom right corner of the Lumetir Scopes, uncheck Clamp Signal.

MtD

[FutureX5]

I tried unchecking the Clamp Signal box but no luck.  Still renders with the signal clamped.  In Lumetri if I uncheck the box then the Lumetri Scope shows the full range but it doesn't effect the output through my Blackmagic card.

[Meg The Dog]

Possibly a Blackmagic configuration setting?

Not sure I understand your workflow as wouldn't it be better to XML to Resolve and work with the original source as opposed to something that has been rendered?

MtD

[shooternz]

Use the source footage for grading!

[FutureX5]

The Blackmagic is showing the video correctly, full range and I'm rendering straight to Quicktime so it basically bypassing the Blackmagic card but I did check and that are no SDI video level controls.

XML in theory would work however it is fraught with problems, many clips become unlinked (especially MXF media) so you have to then hand relink those clips. I also messes with frame resizing and will sometimes pull in the wrong timecode so the clip is just wrong.  So the fastest and most reliable way is to render a ProRes 4444 and do Scene Cut Detection in DaVinci.  Working with source is always preferred but when you compare the huge increase in time to actually get the timeline accurate against the budget and time restrictions to actually get the job done sometimes you don't have a choice.  If the source was Raw Red footage I would make more of an effort.

It seems as though Blackmagic has no intention of making it easy to get a Premiere sequence into Resolve as Premiere has Speed Grade which they want you to use (which is like comparing Motion to After Effects).

The problem still remains that there seems to be no way to export full range QuickTimes from Premiere.

[Meg The Dog]

So the fastest and most reliable way is to render a ProRes 4444 and do Scene Cut Detection in DaVinci.

Sorry, are you using "rendering" to mean exporting?

Thought you were talking about rendering clips on the timeline.

Set the Sequence Settings so the  preview format is Uncompressed YUV 10bit 422 and then Export in that format.

Does that work for you?

MtD

[Meg The Dog]

[FutureX5]

Yes I mean exporting.  I changed the sequence settings and the export settings but still get clamped video.  I also tried the Blackmagic RGB 10bit codec as well.  It's something that Premiere is doing to keep everything legal but only on exports, the full range video is output correctly through SDI to my monitor and scope.

[Meg The Dog]

OK, yes -  I see the anomaly. Oddly, if I export a quicktime with super whites and reimport that file back into Premiere, the whiter than whites are preserved.

I don't know enough about this to be of any more help.

MtD

[FutureX5]

Here's an update.  You were right about the Blackmagic RGB codec.  I discovered that exporting full range video depends on the codec you choose.  All ProRes codecs export clamped video even the fancy ProRes 4444 XQ.  The Blackmagic RGB codec worked but it was way too big so I settled on the DNxHR HQX 10bit at Uncompressed codec.  It gives me full range without being exorbitantly huge.  I exported the entire timeline and used Scene Cut Detection in DaVinci to break it up.  I did try to use Render and Replace in AP but found some anomalies.  Some of the footage is archival 29.97 or 25fps and we have to deliver 23.976 so I use Optical Flow for all of the speed changes which works 90% of the time.  However if I choose Optical Flow in my Export Settings under Time Interpolation and then save that as a preset and then use that preset to Render and Replace it does not actually render with Optical Flow.  I noticed it on some 25i footage, if I exported it manually with Optical Flow then it works and actually looks really good but if I use that preset to Render and Replace on the timeline it switches off the Optical Flow.  The reason I was trying the Render and Replace method is that once all the clips are converted to one codec the exporting an XML and importing that in DaVinci becomes workable and you can have handles.  So I'm back to exporting the entire timeline and cutting that up in DaVinci. 

[R Neil Haugen]

Interesting workflow you've derived there ... I know some colorists, and have been through their training on how to conform PrPro projects into Resolve, always using the source material and an XML. It's quite a process getting all speed-ramps, all scaling, all transitions resolved into a Resolve timeline. Ha ... loved resolving that comment!

So following through here I was going to pass on some of their comments ... including that you virtually must use "set to frame-size" in PrPro except for manual key-framed scaling work ... and that there's a setting in Resolve that can 'mate' with a PrPro XML with that setting ... but you've found an intriguing way through the morass that is conforming from PrPro to Resolve.

Neil

[FutureX5]

Yes had I more time I would have worked more diligently to work with the actual source material via an XML.  But that would have meant checking every shot against the timeline in AP, for scaling, speed changes, etc.  And with 4 1 hour episodes at 900 shots per episode that just wasn't feasible and the Optical Flow dilemma.  If I brought the 29.97 or 25 fps footage into Resolve and then exported from Resolve to 23.98 I lose my ability to apply Optical Flow and fix the 29.97/25 to 23.98 problem.  Thanks for your interest in this!

[R Neil Haugen]

SO understood. The colorists have a long list of instructions they give to their clients to have the editors check or set within the PrPro project. With the very clearly stated position that if these are not done, they or their assistants will have to go through and do those things ... and that will be added directly to the billing. And ... they want the PrPro project along with all the original media included in the package delivered to their shop.

And for many projects ... they or an assistant gets to spend some time clear back in PrPro checking to see if this ramp is supposed to be like this or that ... what is the real re-framing on this shot ... where's the clips for this section that actually have the handles ... all that sort of picky-sot joyous pastime.

Getting through this as quickly, lightly, and accurately as possible is something that takes some thinking ... and a lot of doing.

Neil

[Provido-BElgium]

Excuse my bad english.

Premiere and After Effects don't satisfy the official ISO specs for video editing wich says that the original camcorder level may  never be clipped  during production. An  NLE like Edius import  the clip as is, send  it as is to the external monitor and to the output codec without any clipping. With Adobe, the video levels of YUV clips are clipped in the broadcast levels (16-235) and this is CATASTROPHIC, you can not even see what your clip looks like!

Be aware that almost all the camcorders shoot in the 16-255 range  for Y. Because the color levels recorded in the U and V bits can code for color levels that are far above the max. 255 RGB space, it's common to have colors as hight as for ex. Red=320 or  more. In Resolve set in full data levels, those levels are above 1023 on the videoscopes and can be graded such as with Edius. The only way to  get and export the 16-255 range with adobe is: export from Edius or Resolve (set in full range) to an RGB codec or Tif's and export from Adobe also in RGB. In Adobe, the black level will be at 16 instead of 0, but it's better  than clipping all the datas above 235 and the black level is again ok when reimporting in Edius or Resolve. Sadly the color levels above 255 are definitely losed. It's not admissible for a pro program that you can not even  convert your original clip in another YUV codec without destroing you precious high saturared colors!