Unusable H.264 exports after cc2017.1 update this week

[bobd76]

Hi friends!  I've been exporting H.264 movies from Premiere Pro and AME on a weekly basis since 2010, but I have never seen this problem before.  First noticed it after updating to cc201.7 (Premiere 11.1.0 222 build and AME build 11.1.0.170).

When encoding finished videos with built-in H.264, I am getting random glitch frames that flash in and out.  Looks like crazy low bitrate macroblocking.  Happens when encoding from AME or directly from Premiere Pro.  Bitrate does not seem to help (happens on 2 pass 10-12mbps and max bitrate  2-pass).  Might be connected to "challenging" material (I'm getting it on a file with heavy film grain.  I reimported the glitchy rendered files back in to Premiere to confirm the glitches were actually encoded to the file and not a problem with playback methods.

Here's a screengrab of one of the glitch frames: https://ibb.co/jdyBo5

And here's the final export with the glitches.  A big one happens at about the 1 minute mark: PROBLEM EXPORT cc2017.1 h.264 freakout cineform master to h.264 via AME 30-50 mbps 2 pass in cc2017....

I encoded to a final cineform master file rather than H.264 in CC2017.1, and that works fine.  View and download that here: cc2017.1 h.264 freakout cineform master from cc2017.1 on Vimeo

I encoded from cc2015.4, and that is fine.  View and download that file here: cc2017.1 h.264 freakout cineform master to h.264 via AME 30-50 mbps 2 pass in cc2015.4 on Vimeo

I encoded with cc2017.1 with the TMPEGEnc H.264 plugin, and that works fine.  View and download here: cc2017.1 h.264 freakout cineform master to TMPEGenc h.264 via AME 30-50 mbps 2 pass in cc2017.1 on V...

[R Neil Haugen]

How about a screen-grab of your export dialog box showing all the video options ... everything you've set. May not provide and answer, but would certainly fill out the information on the issue some.

And ... for screen-grabs, just drag/drop a png file onto the reply box, or use the flower-icon in the middle of the reply box formatting bar, so they appear here rather than uploading somewhere else & linking.

Neil

[bobd76]

Thanks, Neil.  Here's what I found.  I did a monotonous series of encodes, and it SEEMS that, assuming you start with H.264 Match source high bitrate preset, if you activate 2-pass it creates the glitchy frames, and if you then activate "render at maximum depth" it fixes the problem.  No other settings seemed to hurt or help (1 pass, CBR, max quality, high profile, etc...)  I did not test the various level settings.

Can anyone download my source file and confirm?  You can download and try to export as a H.264 from cc2017.1.  I'm on  a PC BTW.  Here it is: cc2017.1 h.264 freakout cineform master from cc2017.1 on Vimeo

Any variation of Match source high 2 pass minus max depth should glitch.  And any variation on match source 2 pass plus max depth should not.

[R Neil Haugen]

"Max Depth" is a setting needed for working with heavy color corrections/visual effects and 10-bit media. For most anything else, it can add glitches. So in general, I advise avoiding it. Another regular or two here advise using it, but ... if so, you have to test it, in my experience.

Many of the top people I've worked with and listened to in the last year or so say that with "modern" media and NLE's such as the late CC versions of PrPro, 2-pass encoding won't do much unless you're going into ... again ... large-frame-size large bit-depth media. Again, it may be useful with H.264, but ... it may cause glitches.

"Max render quality" is another setting to use only after testing it. It may help ... it may glitch. Depends. Test it both ways.

Any of those three items, Max Depth, 2-Pass, and Max Quality, may help or glitch. They ​will​ all add time to the render. If you can't see a benefit in testing, don't bother with them.

Neil

[bobd76]

Thanks for the opinions, Neil.  I have tested all these settings by virtue of constantly using Premiere Pro daily since 2010, and frequently even before that.  For years I have rendered h.264, max depth, max quality, high profile and high bitrate.  Most of the opinions I have ever read have been "it can't hurt, other than adding to the render time."

These glitches are clearly an error in encoding.  A bug perhaps?  No settings, especially at 50mbps, should produce glitchy, macroblocked frames like the ones I'm seeing.  I've never encountered this prior to cc2017.1 this week.  Not trying to pass judgment on your opinions about which setting I should and shouldn't use, but no settings should produce glitchy macroblocked frames all throughout my projects.

[R Neil Haugen]

For many users, those settings at times have produced this in the past. Therefore, my advice. Not my opinion. It doesn't matter a whit what we think the program should do when we're working ... it only matters what it does for each of us while we're working, on our machine, with our media & practices. As that affects getting the work out.

And note, I didn't say "Do X."

I said, as many people have had issues with these settings, test them yourself. Because they may cause a problem, exactly like the problem you've had. Do you want to discuss what it should be doing, or ... get back to work as it is? I'll be happy to participate in a discussion about what it should do, on many things. But of course, that doesn't actually get work done.

Feel free to file the bug report over this ... I can't think of anyone that wouldn't consider it one.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Neil

[bobd76]

That makes good sense, Neil. Just to clarify: changing to 2-pass encoding (from either vbr 1-pass or cbr) causes the glitches, and activating max depth corrects the issue if on 2-pass.  No other settings seem to matter.

[R Neil Haugen]

See, that's the type of very useful information that is these forums at their best ... someone like you who's tested and found that at this time, this causes a problem, this method will correct ... or you could do it this way instead.

Thank you ... this is something that not only gets you working, it will 1) save someone else's cookies for sure, and 2) may get some data to the engineers so this thing goes away for good. Hope so!

Neil

[Jim_Simon]

changing to 2-pass encoding causes the glitches

I am one of those who advocates against 2 pass.  I believe it adds nothing but more time to drink your coffee.

I similarly advocate against Max Render Quality, which will shift certain processes from the GPU over to the CPU, even when CUDA is turned on, thus slowing the export process and possibly even denigrating it.  Use Max Render Quality only when you've got scaling effects and do NOT have GPU processing turned on.

[Jim_Simon]

"Max Depth" is a setting needed for working with heavy color corrections/visual effects and 10-bit media. For most anything else, it can add glitches.

Man, I just think that's really bad advice, Neil.  Max Bit Depth can help with any media when any 32 bit effects are used, such as Lumetri.

And in all the years I've been using it, it's never once caused any issues.

I do recommend Max Bit Depth be checked in the Export Settings for pretty much everything.

[bobd76]

My biggest takeaway from from this experimentation is how much better the TMPEGEnc h.264 plugin is at holding fine detail.