1 2 3 Previous Next 119 Replies Latest reply on Jan 14, 2018 12:29 PM by osgood_

    Subscription Costs

    Orchids-World Level 1

      When I subscribed Dreamweaver a year ago, the subscription was around $22.00, it increased to around $26.00 and now gain it is going to increase to over $28.00. For me, with exchange rates added, it will cost over $30.00 every month.

      That sounds good if you use Dreamweaver every day, but I only use the application for about 20 minutes a month. Taking into account that I am just a pensioner with no regular income other then my pension and my website "Orchids-World.com" is Non Profit Site, I believe it is a bit too much.

      I could use another similar program; however, I am using Dreamweaver for over 15 years and I am used to it. Maybe I maintain bad habits of yesteryear, but I think Adobe could easily effort to maintain a reasonable price for aged people like myself. It is sad to think, that due to lack of options, I have no choice but to look for alternatives.

      It is sad.

      George

        • 1. Re: Costs
          Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

          Download Brackets.  It's free.  And the code engine is the very same one Dreamweaver uses.  You will need to get an FTP extension for Brackets if you don't already have Filezilla or Cute FTP client.

          Brackets - A modern, open source code editor that understands web design.

          eqFTP

           

           

          Nancy

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Subscription Costs
            rayek.elfin Level 4

            Another alternative: Pinegrow with Atom. Atom is free (Atom) and Pinegrow (https://pinegrow.com/ ) is either $80 for a perpetual license with 1 year of free updates, or $8 a month (subscription). Pinegrow is easy visual editing, while Atom integrates seamlessly for code editing - change the code, and Pinegrow updates the visual view automatically (while you type). Edit in the visual view of Pinegrow, and the code adjusts with it.

             

            Version 3 is going to be very interesting - in my opinion Pinegrow is the direction that Dreamweaver would have taken in a better alternate universe.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Subscription Costs
              mikel86987428

              I have to say, I was disappointed to receive another price increase email here in New Zealand. Adobe is the only cloud subscription that seems to increase on a regular basis. If this keeps up I will start looking for alternatives.

              • 4. Re: Subscription Costs
                pziecina Level 6

                As a fellow pensioner, I agree that a subscription is very expensive, and would like to see Adobe, (and every one else) offer us a least the student rate. The trouble is I do not think it is going to happen.

                 

                If you do your site using code then a free alternative such as Brackets, (Nancy's suggestion) would be a very good alternative, as with a few extensions it would be just as good as Dreamweaver for you.

                 

                The question I would ask you though, is what else do you wish to do?

                 

                As an example if you wish to learn more about what one can now do using css and html5, then surprisingly the suggestion of Atom by 'rayek' is at the moment better than Brackets, (or Dreamweaver). Another alternative would be visual studio code -

                https://code.visualstudio.com/

                • 5. Re: Subscription Costs
                  osgood_ Level 8

                  Pinegrow/Atom, et al - I'm dust.

                   

                  More time to enjoy the wine and the sun.

                  • 6. Re: Subscription Costs
                    pziecina Level 6

                    osgood_  wrote

                     

                    More time to enjoy the wine and the sun.

                    once you become a pensioner, you look at any complaints from others as being irrelevant, (almost better than the wine and sun).

                    • 7. Re: Subscription Costs
                      osgood_ Level 8

                      pziecina  wrote

                       

                      osgood_   wrote

                       

                      More time to enjoy the wine and the sun.

                      once you become a pensioner, you look at any complaints from others as being irrelevant, (almost better than the wine and sun).

                       

                      Yeah, more interested in the zimmer frame and out-patient department being in good working order.

                      • 8. Re: Subscription Costs
                        pziecina Level 6

                        Believe me, there are many more positives to being a pensioner, than there are negatives.

                        • 9. Re: Subscription Costs
                          osgood_ Level 8

                          pziecina  wrote

                           

                          Believe me, there are many more positives to being a pensioner, than there are negatives.

                           

                          Free false teeth and hearing aid are 2 of them.

                          • 10. Re: Costs
                            Orchids-World Level 1

                            Thanks. The use of only "code" will be difficult for me, sometimes I would like to see the "results" of my coding (WYSIWYG editor). With Adobe, I even pay for "Cloud space" use although I do not use anything. Anyway, I will download and try out Brackets. It could be just what I need. Thank again.

                            • 11. Re: Subscription Costs
                              Orchids-World Level 1

                              Thanks, I will have a look at it and try it out. There used to be so many Software, even Microsoft used to have a reasonably good one in the 80's.

                              • 12. Re: Costs
                                Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                Orchids-World  wrote

                                 

                                Thanks. The use of only "code" will be difficult for me, sometimes I would like to see the "results" of my coding (WYSIWYG editor).

                                In Brackets, use Preview with Chrome browser to see your work in real-time.

                                 

                                Nancy   

                                • 13. Re: Subscription Costs
                                  osgood_ Level 8

                                  Orchids-World  wrote

                                   

                                  Thanks. The use of only "code" will be difficult for me, sometimes I would like to see the "results" of my coding (WYSIWYG editor). With Adobe, I even pay for "Cloud space" use although I do not use anything. Anyway, I will download and try out Brackets. It could be just what I need. Thank again.

                                   

                                   

                                  Brackets wont be any use to you if you need a visual editor. It might be ok if you only intend to update a limited amount of content and don't mind doing this while in code view. Brackets is an editor aimed more at the coder.

                                  • 14. Re: Subscription Costs
                                    Orchids-World Level 1

                                    I am not useless, but at the same time, because I only use it a very limited time every month, I do lack in confidence. Sometimes, mistakes can be very difficult to "repair". I would like to have both options, that's why I use Dreamweaver. I can change things using code and view things before posting to make sure I did not do any mistakes. It is sad I can not buy outright the product anymore. There are hundreds for Adobe "packages" available on the market for very little money but all are for students. The fact is, the students of today have more money than the pensioners. Adobe doesn't take this into account when pricing.

                                    • 15. Re: Costs
                                      Orchids-World Level 1

                                      I downloaded and installed Brackets. Is the app an Adobe app?  If not, why Adobe receives automatically info about how I use Brackets and what I am doing with it? Why it works only with Chrome? Is the app made for Android OS? I use EDGE and Firefox. I find Google apps very intrusive.

                                      • 16. Re: Costs
                                        Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        Adobe developed Brackets as a beta project. That''s why it's open source.   It gathers Crash logs and sends data to developers so they can work on bugs.  This is nothing new.  Windows, the various browsers and Creative Cloud apps all do it too.   It's not a concern to me.  But I think you can opt out from it in your settings.

                                         

                                        Brackets is available for Win, Mac or Linux.  I don't think there is an Android version.

                                         

                                        Brackets Preview launches Chrome browser.  No doubt for the same reasons that the current DW uses a Chrome rendering engine for Live View.  But you can copy the URL from Chrome into any other browser if desired. 

                                         

                                         

                                        Nancy

                                        • 17. Re: Costs
                                          Orchids-World Level 1

                                          Thanks, I am trying it although I am not quite sure I can use it successfully.

                                          • 18. Re: Subscription Costs
                                            W_J_T Level 4

                                            rayek.elfin  wrote

                                             

                                            Another alternative: Pinegrow with Atom. Version 3 is going to be very interesting - in my opinion Pinegrow is the direction that Dreamweaver would have taken in a better alternate universe.

                                             

                                            Pinegrow 4 , just released today.

                                             

                                            * They changed their version numbering system, so this is the continuation of the Version 3 release going forward.

                                             

                                            Introduction to Pinegrow 4 - YouTube

                                            • 19. Re: Subscription Costs
                                              I_Hate_Subscriptions

                                              Unfortunately, Adobe has moved away from servicing the small guy (individual, small business, etc). Subscriptions make sense to large business, but make no sense to those that don't have a lot of money to burn.

                                               

                                               

                                              Subscription locks you in... if I can't afford to make a monthly payment (medical bills, unexpected circumstances, higher business priorities), then I lose my ability to use the software.

                                               

                                               

                                              Adobe Subscription is probably the right call if you own a large business -- and if that's the audience Adobe wants to target.

                                              But it forces the smaller guy to look for alternative software programs. I have  been encouraging my three college kids to stay away from subscription-based services.

                                              The model works for large businesses that require being kept up-to-date, but most individuals/families/students/small business do not have a need to receive every little update.

                                               

                                              Besides, other software companies often provide free updates to customers within a certain time-frame after purchase. Adobe does not.

                                              • 20. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                I_Hate_Subscriptions  wrote

                                                 

                                                other software companies often provide free updates to customers within a certain time-frame after purchase. Adobe does not.

                                                Untrue.  Adobe gives Creative Cloud members FREE updates & upgrades for as long as we remain members.  And we have access to older product versions if we need them for legacy projects.  IMO, the subscription model is far superior, more affordable and covers a much wider range of products than the old perpetual licensing system did.   YMMV.

                                                • 21. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                  osgood_ Level 8

                                                  Not that you actually pay for Adobe software being an ACP so its a bit rich to comment.

                                                  • 22. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                    Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                    Excuse me.  I joined Creative Cloud in 2012 and paid monthly up until I was invited to join the ACP program.   Before that I had purchased many hundreds of dollars worth of perpetually licensed versions. So I can say with some authority that the Creative Cloud Plan is a better value than the old system was.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Nancy

                                                    • 23. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                      osgood_ Level 8

                                                      Sorry but as you have free access you dont understand that there are a  lot of people with limited funds and ideally for them an outright purchase is a somewhat better deal for them in the long run, which l do understand.

                                                       

                                                      The whole idea of subscription based software is to stop buyers not updating for several years. I was using cs4 up until about a year ago and it wss a perfectly capable and good editor, no need for any updates for several years unless of course you want to pay for a few junk Bootstrap snippets and a pretty awful experience as even you admit cs2018 is.

                                                       

                                                      As it was l grew discontented with Dw and bought into a bit of software which wipes the floor with it for l think 70 quid a year which will decrease for the second and third year........go figure.

                                                      1 person found this helpful
                                                      • 24. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                        Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                        I do understand as I'm not made of money either.  Assuming I did not have access to it, I would go back to paying for it.   I must have PS, AI, Acrobat Pro, ID, DW and other apps to do my work.  Simple as that.

                                                        • 25. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                          rayek.elfin Level 4

                                                          https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

                                                           

                                                          I_Hate_Subscriptions   wrote

                                                           

                                                          other software companies often provide free updates to customers within a certain time-frame after purchase. Adobe does not.

                                                          Untrue.  Adobe gives Creative Cloud members FREE updates & upgrades for as long as we remain members.  And we have access to older product versions if we need them for legacy projects.  IMO, the subscription model is far superior, more affordable and covers a much wider range of products than the old perpetual licensing system did.   YMMV.

                                                          Small correction: Adobe gives CC members PAID FOR updates & upgrades for as long as members remain paying the rent.

                                                          When we pay rent, it cannot be maintained that updates are free - obviously we pay for those upgrades on a monthly basis.

                                                           

                                                          Not saying this is "good" or "evil" - it is merely a business model which Adobe now runs.

                                                           

                                                          Adobe's rental model no longer allows users to skip a (paid) upgrade either. In the past many hobbyists and smaller businesses decided to keep using an older version for a longer time until they could no longer hold out due to hardware/OS requirements. That really ate into Adobe's profits, and obviously the rental model solved this quite spectacularly - at the expense of people like @I_hate_subscriptions.

                                                           

                                                          The other side of the coin for hobbyists  and small users is that they can no longer pay once and keep using the same version for as long as they want. Nor can anyone edit their native source files without paying the rent any longer - effectively locking in users (up to a certain extent).

                                                           

                                                          Before the CC rent it was much easier to pick À la carte: individual applications could be paid for, and the user could decide which app to purchase and/or update when they wanted or needed it. At the time Adobe recognized the inherent issues with this for their business, and the rental-only model restricts picking separate applications by making this quite unattractive to users (excepting the photographer's PS offer, which made sense to cater for the large photographers' market).

                                                           

                                                          All in all, in the end the side benefiting the most from the CC rent-only business model is Adobe. Certainly, a side effect of the success is that more perks have become available to their tenants, although the fact remains that the inherent relative FREEDOM users had when perpetual licenses were still available no longer exists.

                                                           

                                                          Pay the rent, and you get to use the software. Don't pay the rent, and you can't work on your source files any longer. Simple as that. Adobe as a company exists to appease its shareholders first, and its users second (perhaps a close second, but still).

                                                           

                                                          Other software publishers seem to do very well using very different business models. For example, users of Zbrush NEVER EVER had to pay for an upgrade so far in the past 15 years, and still become the industry standard. Buy once, get TRULY FREE updates. No strings attached. Or a business such as the one behind Gravit Designer: the software is free, and the company earns its money by providing the tech to other developers (I believe). Or open source business models, of course.

                                                           

                                                          Luckily for small users and businesses the alternatives are getting better and better all the time. So many good and better alternatives are now available.

                                                           

                                                          Again, I am not defending or attacking Adobe here - it is what it is. From a business point of view their switch to rental only software made complete sense. Their profits were dwindling and their business management had become too complicated, and by adopting a rental model, and limiting the freedom of their users, they were able to turn this around.

                                                          1 person found this helpful
                                                          • 26. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                            osgood_ Level 8

                                                            And youre being charged a premium and virtually held to 'hostage' you have no other choice.

                                                             

                                                            An option to buy would go a long way to changing my point of view or failing that reduce the price of a single apllication subscription. In the  UK l would have to pay 240 pounds a year for DW as opposed to better software which is a third of the cost. DW doesnt even have the most up to date Bootstrap framework included...........financially something isnt right, you know it and l know it.

                                                            1 person found this helpful
                                                            • 27. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                              rayek.elfin Level 4

                                                              osgood_  wrote

                                                               

                                                              And youre being charged a premium and virtually held to 'hostage' you have no other choice.

                                                               

                                                              An option to buy would go a long way to changing my point of view or failing that reduce the price of a single apllication subscription. In the  UK l would have to pay 240 pounds a year for DW as opposed to better software which is a third of the cost. DW doesnt even have the most up to date Bootstrap framework included...........financially something isnt right, you know it and l know it.

                                                              Yep, that's what I said: unless you happen to be a photographer or only need Photoshop, the upkeep for a single application is quite high, and in the case of Dreamweaver better and lower cost perpetual options exist anyway. I'd argue that most free code editors do a better job than DW in that regard. And let's be real here: almost no professional coder uses Dreamweaver anymore, excepting a group of holdouts on these here forums.

                                                               

                                                              But that is exactly what Adobe wants: they made the single app rent relatively high to lure users into renting the full CC suite. Which does makes sense to a lot of users, but in particular for Adobe. It's an old psychological sales trick, really: "One app costs THAT much? Oh, I'd better get myself that full CC suite then!".

                                                              1 person found this helpful
                                                              • 28. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                BenPleysier Adobe Community Professional & MVP
                                                                And let's be real here: almost no professional coder uses Dreamweaver anymore, excepting a group of holdouts on these here forums.

                                                                Please back your assumptions up with facts.

                                                                 

                                                                I for one know that there are many developers in other forums, like DMXZone, PVII and Webassist that use Dreamweaver because of its extensibility.

                                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                                • 29. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                  Nancy OShea Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  Well some people still use Dreamweaver.

                                                                  How often do you use Dreamweaver?

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  • 30. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                    I_Hate_Subscriptions Level 1

                                                                    I used Dreamweaver several years ago while building sites for myself and a few local organizations (mostly charitable). However, a growing family and a decent job caught up with me, so I abandoned the sites (still live, but are now managed by others). I haven't been serious with web building for about the last five years. I have, however, used Adobe RoboHelp (which includes a one-time purchase option) for the last few years for creating HTML documents.

                                                                     

                                                                    The kids are growing up and going to college, so I'm ready to go again, but I'm shopping for a decent web/HTML editor that provides the WYSIWYG option along with regular coding. The world has changed with mobile devices, so I also worry about responsive HTML.

                                                                     

                                                                    For a startup, Dreamweaver is not going to work. If I'm going to gamble, I will make a one-time purchase (not subscription). I wanted to consider Dreamweaver as an option (that's why I'm here), but it appears there are alternative options that will meet my needs.

                                                                    • 31. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                      B i r n o u Adobe Community Professional

                                                                      I can't and I won't answer for I_Hate_Subscriptions, but what I undesrtood in his comment that when buying a software, some companies offer free update after the purchase... so if you don't renew any license... you will have the last build remaining to be use... (how many people on this forum are still using old installed software).... compare to when one have a subscription... either if your subscription have stay up for three years... when you stop paying, you wont have any old version under hand, nor any update...

                                                                      • 32. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                        B i r n o u Adobe Community Professional

                                                                        is it an automatic process, or do we have to ask for it ?

                                                                        • 33. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                          osgood_ Level 8

                                                                          BenPleysier  wrote

                                                                           

                                                                           

                                                                          I for one know that there are many developers in other forums, like DMXZone, PVII and Webassist that use Dreamweaver because of its extensibility.

                                                                           

                                                                          They are NOT professional developers. Professional developers don't need such outlets.

                                                                           

                                                                          Fact is pretty much all of the developers who have youtube channels who are any good in my opinion won't be using DW.

                                                                           

                                                                          I personally don't know why - could it be it's priced itself out of the market? Why do the majority of good developers use FREE software. In the bigger picture IF you do this for a living and you make money then you should be able to afford £240.00 a year for a bit of software, if its any good. I think its different for those who are hobbyists or only use DW ocassionally given the state of how many are in debt and can't even put a roof over their heads despite they having jobs to be expected to find such money on a regular basis.

                                                                           

                                                                          IF DW was a product thought of as a serious web editor the majority of professional web-developers would use it regardless of cost, just like the majority of graphic designers use InDesign or Quark because they have a reputation for being the best tools to use, obviously DW doesn't have the same reputation, why is that?

                                                                          • 34. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                            osgood_ Level 8

                                                                            https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

                                                                             

                                                                            Well some people still use Dreamweaver.

                                                                            How often do you use Dreamweaver? 

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            'people' - that could include grandma or grandpa who update their woollen mittens website, they could hardly be thought of as professionals. How many regularly come into this forum and announce 'I'm 85 years old and just starting to use DW'. Nothing wrong with that,  I admire them for doing so but they are not professionals.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                              BenPleysier Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                              Just read an article in INN'twente where it states that Wappler is free of charge and that the basic package includes plenty of building blocks to make slideshows or interactive apps. If you want more, there are plenty of building blocks that can be purchased in a similar manner to Dreamweaver extensions.

                                                                              The article also mentions that half a million web designers and developers use their products. Does this mean that half a million Dreamweaver customers will leave the fold?

                                                                              • 36. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                                osgood_ Level 8

                                                                                BenPleysier  wrote

                                                                                 

                                                                                Just read an article in INN'twente where it states that Wappler is free of charge and that the basic package includes plenty of building blocks to make slideshows or interactive apps. If you want more, there are plenty of building blocks that can be purchased in a similar manner to Dreamweaver extensions.

                                                                                The article also mentions that half a million web designers and developers use their products. Does this mean that half a million Dreamweaver customers will leave the fold?

                                                                                 

                                                                                Don't know. Have to wait and see. FREE of charge interesting approach - personally I would rather pay for a decent web-editor - that kind of suggests unless you purchase a 'building block' it may be lacking in some areas. Myself Im not really interested in DMXZones other products. I think its trying to take a market share of DW users which in my opinion is mainly aimed at the 'amatuer' market, certainly not professional market. I even wonder if its all a ploy to get Adobe to scoop it up even before it hits the market.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Probably have to wait for the next decent paid-for web editor to emerge if it ever does which I'm skeptcial about. It was a healthy and innovative market between 2000 - 2012 before a deluge of FREE products like Atom, Sublime, VC Code and Brackets stormed the market

                                                                                • 37. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                                  BenPleysier Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                  You've hit the nail on its head, this is not a product that you would fancy. It is like using robots to build a car, no brain power required except perhaps push a button to pop up, amongst others, a carousel or a master/details page.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  One nice touch though, if one does not deploy Bootstrap, no jquery library is required and there is plenty of AJAX action.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  My Suggestion: Leave Wappler to the amateurs like me.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                                    BenPleysier Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                                    Forgot to say, Wappler not only includes the Bootstrap framework, it also includes Framwework 7 with more to come.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Subscription Costs
                                                                                      osgood_ Level 8

                                                                                      BenPleysier  wrote

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Forgot to say, Wappler not only includes the Bootstrap framework, it also includes Framwework 7 with more to come.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Im unclear why a web-editor would want to blur the boundaries and introduce iOS app building frameworks. Its like Adobe Photoshop tries to be a web-editing tool when they had a much better one, Fireworks.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I prefer applications to stay focused in what they do otherwise they become too bloated and watered down. I guess which is why something like php storm will never be rivalled because the developers of that bit of kit purely concentrate on php development.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Although I agree about the jQuery aspect I think the hype around jQuery being a bad workflow is put around by non-sensical professionals who would rather use the more 'unfriendly' javascript structure approach or god forbid angular or vue. Its really up to javascript to become more user friendy which it is desperately trying to do and to some extent echo what's in jQuery, but it has a way to go before it becomes 'likeable' as a language.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Yes jQuery adds weight to a page, which is not desirable, but no more so than other plugins and popular frameworks, one too many an image, so I don't buy into the bandwidth argument, that's poor.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      An amatuer, that's progress for you to acknowledge that.

                                                                                      1 2 3 Previous Next