18 Replies Latest reply on May 10, 2017 3:32 AM by Roei Tzoref

    Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?

    Monkeydude05

      Why is it when I dynamic link from Premiere Pro to After Effects, my layers appear as pre-comps within my composition as opposed to the images or video clips that were on the timeline in Premiere Pro. I don't want them as pre-comps. How do I stop this from happening?

        • 1. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
          Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional
          Why is it when I dynamic link from Premiere Pro to After Effects, my layers appear as pre-comps within my composition as opposed to the images or video clips that were on the timeline in Premiere Pro. I don't want them as pre-comps. How do I stop this from happening?

          how are you use dynamic link from premiere? it seems like you are importing a premiere project instead, that will show you clips as layers. when you import a dynamically linked sequence it has this icon:

          you won't see the clips, just one long sequence that will dynamically change from the editing you do in premiere, this is

          as opposed to importing a premiere project which will convert your premiere sequence to and Ae composition and look like this:

          and is now not linked in any way to your premiere project

           

          I believe the latter is the one you are using. and if you are getting your clips as precomps, it's probably because you used "scale to frame size" on your clips in premiere. change it to "set to frame size" instead and try again

          • 2. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
            Monkeydude05 Level 1

            Screenshot 2017-05-08 20.12.09.png

             

            Is this not the correct way to Dynamic Link your timeline from Premiere Pro to After Effects? I mean it opens AE and the timeline matches my PP timeline with all the clips layered and correct length etc, but they are nearly all Pre-Comps... some aren't for some reason.

             

            Screenshot 2017-05-08 20.18.24.png

            • 3. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
              Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

              well you could do that yes. but replace with after effects composition is usually for single clips, not whole editing sequence.

               

              you see the whole purpose of this dynamic link is combine the strengths of both of these Apps. Premiere is powerful in Editing, Ae is powerful in compositing single shots. when you select multiple clips from premiere and create an Ae DL composition from them, you are actually reversing the workflow - you keep your editing in Ae, and a single shot in Premiere... if it's a few shots that you need to work on together in Ae, then this command could be useful for multiple clips but that's not usually the case and does not appear to be the case when watching your screenshot.

               

              if you have to do it, I would keep the editing in premiere by duplicating the video track in premiere and only then replace the duplicate track with Ae Composition. this way, I have the original editing in premiere too. but as I said, it does not appear to be your case. it looks like you got full on editing in Ae and that's not so easy if you need to change anything or playback and not an efficient way to work. because what's to become of your premiere DL now? you are already in Ae, why do you need Premiere if everything is in Ae? why do you need a clip dynamically linked to Ae Editing? you should consider these questions. see if you are doing this right...

               

              BTW, if you just need your premiere edit in Ae converted to layers, you can also copy paste the sequence from the project panel in Premiere to the project panel in Ae. you can also copy paste clips and range of edits, although you do have to create a composition for them.

               

              in any case, the reason you are seeing some clips as precomps and some as layers is probably because you set your clips in premiere to "Scale to Frame Size", change it to "Set to Frame Size" and they will transfer as layers not precomps

               

              here's a tutorial about using DL workflow

              Use Dynamic Link with After Effects

              • 4. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                Monkeydude05 Level 1

                You are quite wrong in your assumptions of my work flow Roei, in fact, everything you suggest is in actual fact how I work. It would be insane to edit in AE. I edit in PP, and then, if I need to do any effect work, which is the case here, I copy my original clips onto another layer, and then I Dynamic Link that to go to AE, do my effects work and as you are aware, it is then automatically in situ in PP.

                 

                I needed to do work on a number of concurrent clips, not one clip, so there is no problem doing it the way I have, and have been doing it this way for years. My question was not about that, so you should consider my question as opposed to telling me how to use dynamic link.

                 

                My question was why were my layers coming in as pre-comps, and you hit the nail on the head there. Yes, it was because I did set "Scale to Frame Size". That has solved my problem, thank you.

                • 5. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                  Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                  Monkeydude05,  I was referring to the way you work because it appears you are working destructively. I may have been wrong in my assumptions or maybe not. if you read my response carefully, I specified the cases where this type of workflow is recommended. I realize you want just to get the answer to your question and I gave it to you twice, but you should realize 2 things:

                  1. I have no way of knowing the level of experience you may have and this information could potentially save you or others a lot of trouble later on.

                  2. this is a public forum and a user to user support community. there are in fact many users reading this that could learn something or teach something for that matter in terms of workflow.

                   

                  Glad you worked it out eventually.

                  • 6. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                    Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    If you have more than one clip selected in the Premiere Pro sequence you will likely get a nested comp that contains the two or more original clips. It has been that way for a long time.

                    • 7. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                      Monkeydude05 Level 1

                      Hi Roei,

                       

                      I missed your solution the first time round as I was reading it on my phone and the images you posted weren't loading. But yes, all I was after was the solution and you came through. But that is also the problem with making assumptions. Regardless of my workflow between AE and PP, that wasn't contributing to the issue. The Scale to Frame Size was and was all that needed to be addressed.

                       

                      Thanks for that little tip on the scaling though.

                      • 8. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                        Monkeydude05 Level 1

                        That is not the issue here Rick, and has been solved anyway thanks.

                        • 9. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                          Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                          If you have more than one clip selected in the Premiere Pro sequence you will likely get a nested comp that contains the two or more original clips. It has been that way for a long time.

                          when using "Replace with After Effects Composition", even if you have only one clip selected, you will get a master comp in the project panel (the layer/s need a home). Op's problem was that he got some nested precomps instead of of some layers.

                          • 10. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                            Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                            The Scale to Frame Size was and was all that needed to be addressed.

                            since you showed your composition, I was compelled to comment about that too. maybe you don't want to open a discussion about workflows and I respect that, but as an active community member, and an Ae instructor that needs to keep in shape, I feel obligated to find the most efficient way to work, to learn and to teach others. you may be confident about your workflow and that's fine, the worst that could happen is that you won't learn something new but let me tell you I have been instructing Ae artists for many years and I know when someone is working inefficiently. I am sure Rick here will have something to say about your timeline too. with respect, it looks messy and I'll be glad to explain why it's wrong or learn why it isn't

                            • 11. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                              Monkeydude05 Level 1

                              Your comment on my workflow only told me that it is not efficient to edit in AE, which I wasn't, and that I would lose my edited clips in PP, which I hadn't. Outside of those two things which you were wrong about, what other advice have you given me in regards to my workflow?

                               

                              You said "if it's a few shots that you need to work on together in Ae, then this command could be useful for multiple clips ".... Bingo... that is what it was.

                               

                              Just so you know, I had edited the images I needed, in PP, and then Dynamic Linked them into AE for transitions that I have more control over in AE, and some animation on the images which I required motion blur, something you cannot add in PP. (Possibly can with 3rd party plug in but I can do it easily in AE) and then it is in situ in my PP timeline.

                               

                              So what is messy or bad about that workflow? It has served me for years in being able to do it that way, and before Dynamic Link, i did the same thing using Automatic Duck.

                               

                              I appreciate your help, but I was not asking for advice on my workflow, but as to why I was getting pre-comps. If you want to enlighten me on how to improve my workflow, then by all means go ahead. Cutting and pasting my PP sequence into AE is virtually the same thing is it not, except it has no link back to my original edit. They both work, it is just a matter of choice really isn't it?

                              • 12. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                                glad you are open for discussion.

                                 

                                Your comment on my workflow only told me that it is not efficient to edit in AE, which I wasn't, and that I would lose my edited clips in PP, which I hadn't.

                                I was suggesting you are compromising your edits when you work this way, which is true. it may be a price you have to pay for the type of effect you are going for and maybe not. when I look on your Ae composition I question if this is the right workflow.

                                 

                                please bare in mind that the only reason I was commenting on your workflow was to make sure your doing it right, and in the process validate the information I know about this type of process. if I am wrong, I want to know about it too. yes I am making assumptions as a means to learn. I can only address what I am seeing. if there is something that can be learned from this discussion either way, everyone can gain something from this. I am aware you did not ask for advice on a workflow, but if you are here and we have seen your composition, you might as well learn or teach us something. this is a sharing process, we all can always learn something, that's mainly what I am here for.

                                 

                                let's talk about what's going on: I hope you can agree with me that the only reason to move your edit from premiere to after effects is for creating effects or animations that you cannot do in premiere. so when I see this:

                                it makes a red light flashing saying: you are either editing or compromising your established edits in after effects. I know you don't intend to, but once you have imported at least 30 cuts/layers to Ae and carefully applied effects or animations, from now on any change in the edit would would have to be done it in Ae, not premiere. you have lost the ability to fine tune your edits and change them easily, and playback will be painful too.

                                 

                                I did say that if it's a few shots that you need to work on together, then this could make sense. this would only make sense if there is a specific animation or compositing treatment that must be applied in Ae to each clip separately and to the composite and transitions that cannot be created or implemented in Premiere . seeing your footage names and the way they are edited, and I may be wrong in my assumption, but this looks like a promo montage of some sort, not vfx work that requires detailed work on each and every clip separately and/or combined that cannot be done in NLE. even then, it's usually best to move shot by shot basis. if this whole piece would require all the elements to be somewhat combined in a premium effect separately and together, then o.k.

                                 

                                let's talk about what you wrote:

                                some animation on the images which I required motion blur, something you cannot add in PP

                                let me correct you that you have native effect in premiere that will allow you to have MB. you also have easing, value and speed graph. so if you need to make transitions based on transform properties, there's actually no need to leave Premiere. if you started in Ae then o.k but if you are already edited and ready in Premiere, no need to leave just yet.

                                100% Real Motion Blur in Adobe Premiere Pro - YouTube

                                 

                                So what is messy or bad about that workflow? It has served me for years in being able to do it that way, and before Dynamic Link, i did the same thing using Automatic Duck.

                                let's talk about Dynamic link. you are moving more than a few clips to Ae, this makes me question the use of DL at all. you are moving your clips to Ae, applying effects and what not, then playing them back in premiere as a DL AE composition - this will have a heavy impact on performance, compromise your story telling. if it's more that a clip or two, some lightweight effect or anything like that, you would be better off rendering your composition in Ae, and placing the rendered piece in Premiere. this will serve you better in the long run.

                                 

                                Cutting and pasting my PP sequence into AE is virtually the same thing is it not, except it has no link back to my original edit. They both work, it is just a matter of choice really isn't it?

                                yes it is the same, which questions why are you are pasting your premiere sequence to Ae for transitions and animations. most transitions can be done in Premiere. if it's a specialized transitions you could also create it in Ae and export to Premiere and set the clip use the matte for whatever it is. if these are animations/effects based on the footage itself that are not available in premiere and are based on the pixel information of the clip then o.k, go on. again, just asking, not determining this way or another.

                                 

                                as to why I was getting pre-comps. If you want to enlighten me on how to improve my workflow, then by all means go ahead.

                                if you are going for montage, then you usually want to use "set to frame size" and not "scale to frame size".

                                 

                                "scale to frame size" rasterizes your video - that's a good thing if you are working with high resolutions (5k for example large pixel images) and want everything to faster playback performance (but you do not intend to zoom or scale into). also placing multiple rester based effects like crop will affect your clips the same because they are all 100%.

                                 

                                "set to frame size"- if you plan to use the scaling, or move to Ae later. for montages, ken burns effects and so on - you would want to use this feature because it will not rasterize and will instead set the scale to the appropriate factor.

                                 

                                Set to Frame Size vs Scale to Frame Size - YouTube

                                 

                                I know you wanted just to ask a question, but I pushed the discussion to other aspects of your workflow because I thought it was important. I was questioning your process but it's was only a question. I may have gone far with my assumptions but if you noticed, my rhetoric was restrictive and not definitive.

                                • 13. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                  Monkeydude05 Level 1

                                  I think we are both saying the same things.

                                   

                                  The difference is, you are making assumptions on what I am doing, and I have told you that you are wrong. I always copy my edit onto a layer above before dynamic linking the sequence I want to work with in AE. Lets be realistic here, to do effect work, you have much more control over the image using AE than you do PP. Sure, PP is getting better, but as a person who has been using AE for 13 years, I know how to do what I need to do a lot quicker and more precise in AE than in PP.

                                   

                                  So let's be clear. I am not compromising my edits. They are all still readily available in PP. The shots I selected all transition to each other. I cannot use 3D space in PP, and just a simple thing like motion blur as I pointed out, requires adding a filter and more keystrokes than just clicking on the layers motion blur button and the master motion blur button as you know. I am sure that this will be a future feature in PP just as it was back on the old Final Cut Pro

                                   

                                  So there is no red light in this instance. I am not compromising my edit or losing my edit in any way. We have established that. But on that note, you say I lose the ability to fine tune my edit and change it easily. Yet if I follow your suggestion to cut and paste my shots into AE, and then render it as a final clip, and import that into PP, am I not also losing my ability to fine tune my edit or change it? If I need to make a change in PP, I then have to go back into AE and make the changes, or cut and paste the changes, and then re-render.

                                   

                                  To me, neither one of these options is better than the other. They both will require work within both applications.

                                   

                                  You have then said "if this whole piece would require all the elements to be somewhat combined in a premium effect separately and together, then o.k.".... well that is exactly the case here. So we agree that it is ok to work this way.

                                   

                                  I am aware of the performance hit, but I will also point out, that either a render out of AE and importing the clip or rendering the DL in PP timeline, it is still a render. I don't have an issue with that. When I am using AE, I am 99% time locked off on my edit, so these effects I am doing in AE, will have to be rendered at some stage, and it suits me to do it in PP.

                                   

                                  So as you can see, from my perspective, I don't really see much of an advantage doing it your way over my way. If the situation was as you assumed, then of course, but that is not the case here.

                                   

                                  I appreciate you letting me know your thoughts, but you could have answered my original question first, and then said "by the way, I am a little confused by your workflow, could you explain what you are trying to do, as I may have a better option for you." as opposed to tackling what wasn't an issue before getting to my real question.

                                   

                                  Anyway, we do things differently, but really we end up with pretty much the same outcome.

                                   

                                  Cheers

                                   

                                  • 14. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                    Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional
                                    So let's be clear. I am not compromising my edits. They are all still readily available in PP. The shots I selected all transition to each other. I cannot use 3D space in PP, and just a simple thing like motion blur as I pointed out, requires adding a filter and more keystrokes than just clicking on the layers motion blur button and the master motion blur button as you know. I am sure that this will be a future feature in PP just as it was back on the old Final Cut Pro

                                    I meant that for further editing you would have to do it in Ae. motion blur using the transform effect or motion controls is practically the same thing. there isn't really much labor into it. I do understand why you have more control in Ae, and if you are used to working this way, I get it.

                                     

                                    But on that note, you say I lose the ability to fine tune my edit and change it easily. Yet if I follow your suggestion to cut and paste my shots into AE, and then render it as a final clip, and import that into PP, am I not also losing my ability to fine tune my edit or change it?

                                    the fine tuning was in regard to the edits that are in premiere, where as in Ae you already have effects applied. any change will be in Ae. the rendering in Ae as opposed to use DL was in regard to performance in premiere.

                                     

                                    I am aware of the performance hit, but I will also point out, that either a render out of AE and importing the clip or rendering the DL in PP timeline, it is still a render. I don't have an issue with that. When I am using AE, I am 99% time locked off on my edit, so these effects I am doing in AE, will have to be rendered at some stage, and it suits me to do it in PP.

                                    I understand. if that's the case I agree.

                                     

                                    I appreciate you letting me know your thoughts, but you could have answered my original question first, and then said "by the way, I am a little confused by your workflow, could you explain what you are trying to do, as I may have a better option for you." as opposed to tackling what wasn't an issue before getting to my real question.

                                    sorry if it appeared this way. I wrote the answer in my first comment. didn't mean to step on tows here, and will take your suggestion into consideration next time.

                                     

                                    thank you, I have learned from this too.

                                    • 15. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                      Monkeydude05 Level 1

                                      Just a little side note and would appreciate it if you have a work around for this, but this morning, I tried the cutting and pasting instead of dynamic linking, and the shots that I cut were at 52 minutes in my time line, so when I pasted them into an 8 second composition, it then extended that composition and dropped my shots at the 52 minute mark. Sure, I can then zoom into it on this huge time line, and mark my beginning and end of the composition so as to shorten my timeline to the length of the shots, but what a pain. Is there a way to paste it where I am parked in the composition?

                                      • 16. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                        Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional
                                        Is there a way to paste it where I am parked in the composition?

                                        Yes, paste in place: Ctrl+Alt+V

                                         

                                        BTW, not sure if you are aware but you can copy paste sequences from premiere and Ae too. and this got me thinking a while back that there's a way to exploit this DL interface in another manner:

                                        1. in premiere right click on the clips you want, replace with Ae composition

                                        2. save the Aep file like you are asked to

                                        3. in premiere - undo.

                                         

                                        now in Ae you have a composition with the exact time and frame rate instead of creating it yourself. I don't trust DL too much, there's too many things that could go wrong in the way it's linking to the Ae compositions. I would use DL to lower thirds and lightweight stuff. although now with motion graphics templates or live text templates the integration is getting much better.

                                        • 17. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                          Rick Gerard Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Roei said:

                                          BTW, not sure if you are aware but you can copy paste sequences from premiere and Ae too. and this got me thinking a while back that there's a way to exploit this DL interface in another manner:

                                          1. in premiere right click on the clips you want, replace with Ae composition

                                          2. save the Aep file like you are asked to

                                          3. in premiere - undo.

                                          That is how I work about 90% of the time with one slight modification. I almost always add handles to the shot in AE by shifting the in and out point somewhere between 10 to 60 frames. The length of the "handle" depends on the shot and the editing style. About half of the directors I work with want to change the timing of a cut a little bit before we are through with the final polish and I'm making those timing decisions the other half of the time. Having a few frames on the head and tail of a shot, especially an effects shot that took hours or even days to create can be a real time saver in the long run.

                                           

                                          I would add one more thing to a suggested workflow. In my work Dynamic link is almost exclusively reserved for motion graphics and titles for a couple of reasons. The first is that somebody is going to change a word somewhere before you are done and Dynamic link is perfect for that, and second, motion graphics and simple effects take lot less time to render than complex visual effects. It is way more efficient to render a complex AE comp to a mezzanine codec and replace the shot in Premiere than it is to use Dynamic Link. If your render is going to take more than a few seconds a frame I would strongly suggest that you render your DI (digital intermediate) as an image sequence. Probably half of my complex FVX work takes more than a minute a frame to render. The upper limit I have set for my effects work is 7 minutes per frame. Image sequences are much easier to 'fix' later when you only need to change 10 frames.

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                                          • 18. Re: Why pre-comps appear when I replace with After Effects clip?
                                            Roei Tzoref Adobe Community Professional

                                            Great pointers there Rick, thanks!