6 Replies Latest reply on May 30, 2017 2:04 AM by Priyanja

    Inability to Align Table Grid

    cdnatadobe Level 1

      I've created this table in Word 365, saved as a PDF, and opened it in DC (2017.009.20044).

      Below is what an autotag looks like in the Table Editor. Although all RowSpans and ColSpans
      are set correctly, the grid shows a split across the "Surplus" RowSpan=2 that shouldn't be there,
      and in fact isn't when I check the attribute settings.

      For a closer look at the Surplus cell,

      so again, the spanning is correct in this and the other header cells.


      I've seen that the physical layout, including text being way too small or large, or being well off-center
      in its header cell, can throw the grid, even though the span settings are correct and regularity passes.
      This limits the effectiveness of the grid as a guide.


      The table has 1-1/2 point borders, cell padding set to zero. I've tried using cell padding, and

      increasing the width of the columns, and decreasing font size to provide more space around the text.
      None of that, nor toggling word wrap in the cells, makes a difference in the autotagging of the converted PDF.


      What might be going on here?


      I am wondering if it relates to a broader issue with RowSpans.


      Something I'm finding is that, going left to right, if you have a RowSpanned column header following

      a ColSpanned column header, JAWS and NVDA may not like it, particularly if it's at the right edge of the table.
      Above, instance, in you are down-arrowing and get to the the first data cell beneath Unemployment,

      it reads as Column 9 (in an 8 column table). If you're in table navigation mode holding down CTRL+ALT,

      you can't enter the 9.8% cell because NVDA keeps finding "edge of table," but you can go around and enter
      the cell beneath it (5.5%). JAWS has it's own error that indicates it is not interpreting the boundaries of the RowSpan=2 for Unemployment correctly.


      Does any of this sound familiar?

      P.S. It doesn't matter whether one uses Scope or Headers and ID. It doesn't seem to be an association issue
      but one with how the table grid is "seen."


      Thanks much,

      Chris Niestepski

        • 1. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
          a_C_student Level 3

          I would try viewing the document using the PAC 1.3 "Preview" feature. It displays the table in the way that an AT user would hear it, and allows for checking the association of header and data cells. It is free, you can find it here Downloading PAC 2 - Stiftung «Zugang für alle» - scroll to the bottom of the page under "Older Version". Grab PAC 2 while you are at it - it is much more thorough that the Acrobat Pro checker, but PAC 1.3 has a better preview feature when working with tables.


          Something else to think about - as you point out even a correctly-tagged complex table can be problematic for AT. Sometimes I will tag a table like yours as a simple, regular table in spite of the visual representation. Using Span tags with alt text, change "Dollars" to "GDP: Dollars", "Euros" to "GDP: Euros" and so on.

          • 2. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
            cdnatadobe Level 1

            As far as tagging a complex table as simple with the exact method you're saying, you are too smart. I'd discussed that on another forum, and our company tried it. Worked fine, but the client would not accept it.


            Anyway, here's the table in PAC 2. It appears correct. And we use QuickFix to double-check our scopes or header/ids. Using scopes, it will read correctly in NVDA, except for the cell under the last RowSpan on top. If I down-arrow into that cell, it's in "Column 9." If I CTRL+ALT+Arrow into it, I get "edge of table."


            The RowSpan for "Surplus," in the middle, with another ColSpan to the right, poses no issues. It's always the RowSpan(s) after a ColSpan ending the table at the top right.


            (By the way, scopes are the way to go here. Use header/id, and the row header assignements on the left become a total mess, with the U.S. in Asia and the EuroZone.)

            Alas, a workaround for this, besides your idea, is to split the top-right TH instead of doing the RowSpan. You still column-scope Employment, of course, There's a redundant "header" cell (blank TD) in row 2, but the "Displacement" problem goes away.

            • 3. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
              Priyanja Adobe Employee

              Hi Chris,


              Thanks for your report. Could you please share the file with which you are facing this issue?

              You can use https://cloud.acrobat.com/send   to share your files.





              • 4. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
                cdnatadobe Level 1

                OK, Priyanka, I've posted the original Word File and PDF to the cloud ( https://files.acrobat.com/a/preview/7f566430-1364-4b3a-9d98-3c5461f55fe5 ).


                There's another file "1a" with only the first table tagged. I cleaned this up and tried to make it PDF/UA compliant and couldn't. Will address in another post.

                • 5. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
                  cdnatadobe Level 1

                  Priyanja, please go here instead. Only two docs. PDF passes PAC 2 but not Acrobat PDF/UA (separate post).


                  Shared Files - Acrobat.com

                  • 6. Re: Inability to Align Table Grid
                    Priyanja Adobe Employee

                    Hi Chris,


                    Thanks for sharing the files. Bug has been logged for this issue. We will update you soon with our findings.