14 Replies Latest reply on May 19, 2017 12:58 PM by trshaner

    Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC

    nicoleh312

      Hello,

      I have been using my 5D Mark IV for about a week now without a problem in LR CC. Last week I updated my version of LR CC and, today, I just imported a batch of files from my 5D Mark IV and they look really bad - sort of desaturated. That's without any import preset applied either. Does anyone have any input on what might be the problem? Wondering if there was a problem with my update? Photos below to illustrate the problem (photo on left is in Photo Mechanic, photo on right is in LR CC). Thank you!

       

      Screen Shot 2017-05-15 at 12.38.49 PM.png

        • 1. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
          dj_paige Level 9

          Nothing unusual is happening. Lightroom's default rendering of most RAW photos requires the user to edit the photo (or apply a preset) to increase saturation and add other desired effects.

           

          There's no reason that Photo Mechanic and Lightroom should match on RAW photos. (And Photo Mechanic is probably showing you the embedded JPG in the RAW file anyway, which will have saturation and other effects added)

          • 2. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
            nicoleh312 Level 1

            Thanks but I do think there's something going on here. Even when I add my custom preset that I've been using for years, the image looks pretty bad. My typical fully edited image looks much closer to the version seen in Photo Mechanic than either of the two in LR. Also, this just started happening today - my files looked fine before that.

            Screen Shot 2017-05-15 at 1.41.02 PM.png

            • 3. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
              Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

              PM is showing the embedded JPG that is inside every RAW file and not the real RAW. Since it is a JPG that is being displayed it take on whatever In-Camera settings that are set for JPG output.

               

              Can you upload 2 RAW file to dropbox, one from an older shoot and the one you are displaying in this thread, so we can load them into our install of LR?

              • 4. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                dj_paige Level 9

                When you say it looks pretty bad, I am seeing horizontal bands on the image, is that what you are reacting to?

                • 6. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                  nicoleh312 Level 1

                  No, I don't see any horizontal banding. I'm referring to the overall colors of the image as they appear desaturated. Presets I've been applying for years don't look the same at all - everything looks a little off color-wise.

                  • 7. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    Have you calibrated your monitor since this started happening?

                    • 8. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                      trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      nicoleh312  wrote

                       

                      Hello,

                      I have been using my 5D Mark IV for about a week now without a problem in LR CC. Last week I updated my version of LR CC and, today, I just imported a batch of files from my 5D Mark IV and they look really bad - sort of desaturated.

                       

                      I don't think this was caused by the LR update. Since you've been using the camera for about a week you may not have realized this until today after going through more 5D MKIV image files.

                       

                      It appears the Adobe Standard profile metrics have been "silently" changed by Adobe sometime in Q3 2014. All Canon and perhaps all other make camera models introduced since Q3 2014 have Adobe Standard profiles with lower color saturation. In short it looks like Adobe has changed the "standard." Please read through this post:

                       

                      Re: Canon 1dx II Color Issues with LR 6.7  HELP

                       

                      You can create a preset that applies the below Camera Calibration or simply try the 'Camera' named profiles (Standard, Neutral, Faithful,etc.). You can also use the Adobe DNG Profile Editor to create a "custom" version of the Adobe Standard profile with more color saturation and perhaps a slight adjustment to the Base Tone Curve.

                       

                       

                       

                      • 9. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                        Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                        I preset created year ago for some other camera would work the same with a new camera.

                         

                        I download the files you uploaded to dropbox and it looks exactly the same as your screen shot. Photo Mechanic is showing you the embedded JPG.

                         

                        I think trshaner hit the nail on the head.

                        Here are some screen shots from your image.

                        First is after I made a virtual copy then adjusted that.

                        Second is with a different camera calibration setting set to Camera Portrait.

                         

                        Before and After.PNG

                         

                        Camera Cal Canon Portrait.PNG

                         

                        I added a bit of sharpening and detail to both.

                         

                        Check the in-camera settings for JPG images to see if the saturation has been boosted.

                        • 10. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                          trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          After looking at this further the Canon 5D MKIV Adobe Standard profile requires the below Camera Calibration panel settings to exactly match the rendering of the older Canon model's (5D MKIII, 6D, etc.) Adobe Standard profile (i.e. legacy Adobe Standard). Only the Red Primary needs correction. CORRECTION: This requires the below Red Primary settings AND a Vibrance setting of +25. I was unable to fully correct the Canon 5D MKIV Adobe Standard profile using just the LR Camera Calibration panel and/or Basic panel Saturation controls. This NOT the preferred method (i.e. Vibrance) for correcting a camera profile since the results may vary dependent on the subject's color intensity. Sorry for any confusion.

                           

                          You can create a preset named 'Canon 5D MKIV Legacy Adobe Standard' or whatever and check just Camera Calibration.

                           

                          • 11. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                            mclaren777

                            For those of us who don't like the look of Adobe Standard, do you have any information about how to make Camera Standard match between the various cameras?

                            • 12. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              I checked the Camera Standard profile for the following Canon EOS models using test charts downloaded from Imaging-Resource's website and they are all very similar. With most "normal" subjects the differences will be hard to detect. See this post: Re: Canon 1dx II Color Issues with LR 6.7  HELP

                               

                              1Ds

                              1Ds MKII

                              1Ds MKIII

                              1Dx

                              1Dx MKII

                              5D MKII

                              5D MKIII
                              5D MKIV

                              5DS

                              5DS R

                               

                              I also checked numerous Nikon D series test charts and found larger differences in the Camera Standard profile rendering. This is actually expected since Adobe is only "emulating" the manufacturer's camera profiles with no regard to any "standardization." That is the whole purpose of the Adobe Standard camera profile–It is supposed to provide uniform color and tone rendering regardless of camera make or model. Unfortunately, the standard was apparently changed sometime around September 2014. All camera models introduced after that date appear to have Adobe Standard profiles with lower color saturation.

                               

                              IMHO–This makes it very difficult to use multiple camera models (old and new) of even the same make on a shoot. LR Users should not have to resort to creating "custom" camera profiles or applying presets simply to "normalize" Adobe Standard camera profile rendering. Using a ColorChecker Passport for this function will not fully correct the rendering since it requires a Base profile (i.e. Adobe Standard) when creating the calibration profile. Color Saturation and Tone Curve differences in the new Adobe Standard profile are applied to the CCPP camera profile.

                              • 13. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                                mclaren777 Level 1

                                If the Camera Standard profile is really as similar as you claim, then Canon must have changed something about the way the 5D4 renders color, because the files are meaningfully different to previous cameras.

                                 

                                I have now spent eight months trying to get my 5D4 images to match my 6D/5D3 images and I still haven't figured it out.

                                • 14. Re: Problems with Canon 5D Mark IV files in LR CC
                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  From the tests I ran using Imaging Resources CR2 test image files the 5D MK III, 6D, and 5D MIV Camera Standard rendering is virtually identical. It's not unusual to see slight differences in color rendering due to manufacturing tolerances, but that should be very subtle.

                                   

                                  Canon Camera Reviews - Canon Cameras

                                   

                                  I can't see any real difference in the below 5D MK IV, 6D, and 5D MK III test images using Camera Standard with LR CC 2015.10. I suggest uploading a 5D MK IV and 6D or 5D MK III CR2 file shot of the same scene, at the the same time, that exhibits the issue to Dropbox and post the share links in a reply here.

                                   

                                  (Click on image to see full-size)

                                   

                                  Camera Standard

                                  Camera Standard 5DMKIII_6D_5DMKIV.jpg

                                   

                                  Adobe Standard

                                  Adobe Standard 5DMKIII_6D_5DMKIV.jpg