17 Replies Latest reply on May 19, 2017 12:42 PM by RoninEdits

    PC equipment for multicam editing

    tytytylerr

      I'm looking at a new PC, and have a limited budget.  Current one (a 2012 intel i5) is plaguing me with choppy, stuttering editing issues especially with 3 camera multicam edits.  I'm typically using 1080p H.264 format.  I've tried using proxies but that's not much help so I've decided to step up to a newer pc and likely a RAID drive system eventually (likely a RAID 10).

       

      I've seen a PC for $1000 equipped as follows: I-7 7700k (seventh gen) quad core 3.6ghz with 24 GB ram, a 256gb ssd + 1tb 7200 hd, 8gb AMD Radeon RX480 graphics card.  Has 2-USB 3.1 (that's one c-type and one a-type) plus two hdmi ports.

       

      Among the many things I'm hoping the community will offer guidance on is confirmation that the Radeon RX480 will take advantage of openCL.  If I have to, I may be able to switch out to (for $200 extra) to an 8GB NVidia GeForce GTX 1070 graphics card to take advantage of CUDA, but, given my limited budget, maybe at another time.  It will also depend on what I hear from the community (for example, if the original PC configuration would be significantly improved by switching to the NVidia card).

       

      Thanks in advance to all that offer feedback.

       

      [Moderator note: moved to best forum]

        • 1. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

          if that's your budget, you may want to look for a computer with an AMD ryzen 6 or 8 core cpu. they will be around the same cost, possibly cheaper for the 6 core, but offer more performance with the extra cpu cores.

           

          from the limited benchmarks i've seen, the rx 480 should perform ok, similar to a gtx 1060. you would just have to be aware of any software/plugins you might use that is cuda/nvidia only.

          • 2. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
            tytytylerr Level 1

            Thanks Ronin for your response.  Since reading your suggestion, I've searched for setups using the AMD Ryzen cpu.  I have not found any that cost less or even the same as the intel i7 configuration I described.  Do you have a source that can offer good pricing?

            • 3. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
              RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

              a ryzen 6 core cpu costs around $220-250 and the 8 core starts at $330, vs $340 for the intel i7 you list. the rest of the components that make up the computer will be the same or similarly priced. so a ryzen system shouldn't be too far off that $1k i7 pc you found. it may be more difficult to find in an off-the-shelf pc, as intel usually has deals with pc vendors to lock out amd. there are lots of pc build shops online, and perhaps some local to you. but i don't have first hand experience with any to recommend. 

              • 4. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                Rather than the RX 480 for the same price you can buy a GTX 1060 6GB SC which works great for me.

                • 5. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                  the RX 480/580 is typically $30-60 cheaper, and others can also claim they work great for them. recommending nvidia>amd without any reason comes across as bias.

                  • 6. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                    Ronin, thanks for the comments but my favorite EVGA GTX 1060 SC is the 06G-P4-6163-KR is $249.99 at Newegg.  When I search Newegg for the RX 480 8GB the lowest price I could find was $281.99.
                    So I do not understand your $30 to $60 dollar cheaper.  I seriously doubt if the RX 480 will be as fast as the GTX 1060.  I have not received any PPBM results yet on the RX series.

                    • 7. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                      tytytylerr Level 1

                      Ronin - What you say makes perfect sense.  The pc I looked at is an off the shelf package. I'll keep looking for some build shops.

                       

                      My main concern is getting a system that will work smoothly with premiere pro especially when editing 3 cam multicams.  I don't want to be throwing down $1000 only to still be plagued with the choppy stuttering that I'm currently experiencing.  My current system is using a amd radion 7500 with an older intel I-5 processor (see Orig. Post for other build details). 

                       

                      From what I have read, the AMD or NVidia GPU graphics cards should make a big difference.  That, combined with a faster processor, I'm hoping will make a significant improvement as I edit in Premiere Pro.

                      • 8. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                        RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                        why on earth would you look for rx 480 prices when they have been discontinued? that rx 480 price is high because its a third party seller. when you look at the new amd cards you will see the average price difference, and yes i'm including the 4gb amd cards in those prices.  as far as performance goes, the limited premiere benchmarks i've seen show the rx 480 come close to the gtx 1060. good enough for a budget build to consider an amd card as a valid option to save money. the main concern for nvidia cards is cuda, as some programs need it.

                         

                        also, you keep recommending your exact video card as well, even when its not a good match to a system build. its very odd, like you need confirmation or validation for your card...  why wouldn't you recommend one cheaper, or quieter, or better like the new gtx 1060 6gb 9gbps?

                        • 9. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                          you may want to aim for the ryzen 8 core, either the base $330 version or $400 version with higher clock speeds. those extra 2 cores (4 extra over the i7) should help more with multi-cam. if worse comes to worse, and your new system still has some performance issues, you could look at transcoding or proxies. dnxhd/r or cineform codecs are very edit friendly compared to h264, so the playback should be more responsive and smoother with those codecs.

                           

                          you mentioned raid in your first post, i would stick with raid-0 using the motherboard (if it has raid support, otherwise use windows raid). then use something like a usb hdd or nas to hold backups of that raid. raid-10 may have multiple drives, but its still one configuration and therefore won't be as reliable as having an isolated backup. if you don't need alot of space for active projects you could also consider a small ssd, like 500gb, to hold your active projects. then archive finished projects to a hdd for storage.

                          • 10. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                            tytytylerr Level 1

                            Ronin, once again, thanks for your feedback. It really is very helpful.

                             

                            I have been trying to find Ryzen 7 (8 core)...it's not easy considering my budget.  Another key issue is making sure there's at least one 3.1 USB port for future expansion especially if I do get a RAID setup since there's a real possibility of it being external.

                             

                            I've used proxies before so I'm fine continuing with that strategy.

                             

                            Regarding transcoding, ultimately, the final product would need to be H.264 as they're likely to be on YouTube or embedded directly on a website.  When you suggested to transcode - and I'm assuming you mean to transcode the raw video into one of those codecs - would that be for editing purposes and then once I'm done with editing to export and transcode it to the H.264?  I'm assuming that Adobe's media encoder would do a good job transcoding the raw footage to an ideal editing codec and not cause problems with the final output.  So you know, I'm recording with Canon prosumer camcorders and typically formatted in 30fps MP4.  There may be times I work in 24p mode for certain projects.  With your suggesting to use other codecs, would it behoove me to record the video using a different format?

                             

                            Regarding RAID, and keeping things simple, it's my understanding that RAID 0 stripes two drives (for example) in a manner that increases read/write speed (effectively 2x) but if one drive fails, then you lose everything.  And that RAID 10 provides about the same speed increase but adds the security of a continual backup.  Continual backup brings high levels of comfort whereas my concern with isolated backup would be they're not continually backed up.  Am I understanding this correctly? I like the idea of using an ssd for active projects and use backups.  And if the new system I get overcomes the choppy stuttering issues, then I can hold off with a RAID set up for a while and use an HDD or NAS for backups as you suggested.

                             

                            On a slightly different note regarding RAID, if I have a 500gb SSD for holding my apps and current Premier Pro projects, could I use a 500gb HDD as part of a RAID 1 configuration? Or would that cause problems or perhaps impact my desire to have a smooth, non jittery editing experience?

                            • 11. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                              Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                              RoninEdits  wrote

                               

                              why on earth would you look for rx 480 prices when they have been discontinued?

                               

                              new gtx 1060 6gb 9gbps?

                              1. Thanks for the info that it has been discontinued but that what the this thread was about
                              2. My GTX 1060's are running at 9.6 gbps with CUDA processing while the listed memory clock speed is 10.4 gbps but nVidia always runs CUDA processing slightly slower than the advertised speed.  I like recommending Items that I have tested.  Please pass on the make model number as I am always interested in new items.
                              • 12. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                after saying they never would, adobe finally buckled and added a built-in proxy system, and transcode into premiere. you can look up youtube tutorials, but the short version is, there is a setting to configure when adding new media into your project to configure it to make the proxies or transcode the media for you. if you do the proxies it will know to re-use the original media on final export. for final export it can be h264, or whatever you need it to be, it won't have to match the source codec. if your camera, or any other capture gear, has the option to record as prores it will also be very edit friendly.

                                 

                                raid 10 or 1, being used for automated backups is the wrong idea. they are for fault tolerance to prevent downtime, like during a busy work schedule. if you cannot afford to stop working, even to recover a backup, then having that level of raid would make sense. otherwise its more expensive for extra disks and has slightly higher risk of data loss. if a file is accidentally deleted, by you or some software, or gets corrupted by the raid or some software, then its gone. the raid 10 or 1 wont save it, only an isolated backup will be safe. there are several file sync programs, some free, that will compare files between one drive/location and another. so you can use a file sync program to quickly have it copy over only new or changed files to your backup drive, and keep or rename old files. the file sync software will usually have setting to configure for what to do for duplicates or missing files etc.

                                • 13. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                  RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                  this thread started about an off-the-shelf pc, that happen to have an rx 480 inside. if you are going to offer an alternative part, such as the gtx 1060, then its open to compete against any alternative part, such as the new amd cards. it makes no sense to dig up a third party jacked-up price for a discontinued gpu as related to an off-the-shelf pc, or to compete against a custom part like your gtx 1060. it only furthers some bias or agenda you might have. also, unless you are testing a large amount of gpu's and other pc parts on the market, you are only hurting buying options for others by only recommending parts you have personally tested. that would be very troubling.

                                  • 14. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                    Bill Gehrke Most Valuable Participant

                                    Until I either test a part or see some PPBM testing of it, I really cannot recommend a part for a Premiere Pro based computer

                                     

                                    In the case of AMD RX580 so it can be had for $10 less than my suggestion but only time will tell if it gets anywhere near nVidia performance with Open CL what CUDA can do.

                                    • 15. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                      RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                      Until I either test a part or see some PPBM testing of it, I really cannot recommend a part for a Premiere Pro based computer

                                      the OP didn't as for a specific gpu to buy, you just volunteered your specific card to buy. out of all the info you could have offered to help the OP, all you have done was recommend your gpu...

                                       

                                      In the case of AMD RX580 so it can be had for $10 less than my suggestion but only time will tell if it gets anywhere near nVidia performance with Open CL what CUDA can do.

                                      the cheapest rx 580 8gb is $10 cheaper, but the cheapest 4gb is currently $25 usd cheaper. "only time will tell" isn't very helpful for making decisions and recommendations right now. either you have seen or experienced the rx 480/580 in action to make your recommendation of the gtx 1060 over them, or you are making speculations and again come across with some bias or agenda.

                                      • 16. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                        tytytylerr Level 1

                                        Ronin- I found a Ryzen 7 build.  Listed below are the cost and specs of the Ryzen system and the original Intel system.

                                        You're straightforward advice and insight has been great and I am so grateful for your help.

                                         

                                        One question I have... Does the benefit of the Ryzen 7 with the 8 cores (vs the Intel quad cord) outweigh the graphics card differences of 2GB?  That is, the Ryzen system offers a NVidia 1060 with 6Gb whereas the Intel system offers a AMD Rx480 with 8Gb.  And of course there's the CUDA vs OpenCL, I'm not sure if that would augment the video editing performance enough to offset the 2GB difference in the graphics cards.

                                         

                                        Ryzen 7 build. $1,099.  Here are the specs:

                                         

                                        Brand: CyberPowerPC

                                        • Computer Type: Gaming Desktop
                                        • Graphic Card: NVIDIA GTX 1060 (6GB)
                                        • Hard Drive Size: 2 TB SATA III (7200 rpm)
                                        • Hard Drive Type: Disk Drive
                                        • Monitor Included: No
                                        • Operating System: Windows 10 Professional
                                        • Optical Drive: DVD-RW
                                        • Processor: AMD Ryzen 7-1700 (3.1Ghz)
                                        • RAM Included: 16 GB 2400 mhz
                                        • SSD Size: 128 GB

                                         

                                         

                                        Intel build I first wrote about.  $999.  Here are the specs

                                        Brand: Dell

                                        • Computer Type: Desktop Tower
                                        • Graphic Card: AMD Radeon RX 480 (8GB)
                                        • Hard Drive Size: 1 TB SATA (7200 rpm)
                                        • Monitor Included: No
                                        • Operating System: Windows 10
                                        • Optical Drive: DVD-RW
                                        • Processor: Intel Core i7-7700 (3.6ghz)
                                        • RAM Included: 24 GB 2400 mhz
                                        • SSD Size: 256 GB

                                         

                                        Other components included:                         Dell          CyberpowerPC

                                        Multicard reader (nice to have)                        Y                    N

                                        Wireless AC 3165 + Bluetooth 4.0                   Y                    N

                                        2- USB 3.1 ports                             1-A type+ 1-C type      both A type

                                        • 17. Re: PC equipment for multicam editing
                                          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                                          premiere is largely cpu based software, so the extra cpu cores should be more helpful. for basic 4k editing, 4gb of gpu ram is recommended, so 6gb should be fine. 8gb shouldn't come into play unless you had some other software that could use the extra memory, or attempting very high resolution projects/media...