11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 19, 2018 10:48 AM by erike35838767

    Working in Rec709 with 10 bit

    Alexander Eberhard Level 1

      Gday,

       

      I am running a EVGA GTX 1060 FTW+ active with an EIZO CS2730. I need to set up two things:

       

      1. Have a 10 bit workflow

      2. Set up a correct rec709 color space to work in

       

      Is anyone experienced in that workflow? I am using my system for video editing and color grading within premiere pro CC 2017. I am running windows 10 pro with the latest nvidia driver.

       

      Does my graphic card support 10 bit? Only the displayport?

       

      Also what are the correct rec709 values? EIZO ColorNavigator software does not realy have a rec709 preset installed so I found this:

      Rec. 709 Reference Display

      Is that the correct one?

       

      I run through the calibration process with ColorNavigator and SPYDER 5 PRO. Looks fine so far. But did I use the correct profile or shall l calibrate manually? But where do i get the correct color profile settings? There are some discussion about the correct gamma or 2.2 or 2.6 and other values which is a bit confusing.

       

      Really appreciate some advise. Thanks, Alex

        • 1. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
          RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

          i don't have that monitor to say exactly how, but the idea of setting up the monitor goes like this: use calibration software to build a corrected color space profile specific to your monitor, such as a rec 709 profile, so it can correctly display that color space. then that profile can either be loaded/saved directly into the monitor, or if the monitor doesn't support that, then save the calibrated profile as a windows color management monitor profile.

           

          i'm not sure what that website rec709 profile is for, but it sounds like the wrong thing. either the eizo color navigator (or whatever calibration software they have) or perhaps sypder 5 pro software from their website will have a rec709 display format choice. if your eizo monitor has an option in its menu, or a button, to switch color space modes, like between srg or rec709 etc, then you might just need to be on the rec709 mode and have it calibrate itself. using a pre-made rec709 profile alone won't correct any color shifts or brightness levels specific to your monitor. srgb is very close to rec709, but i think it defaults to 2.2 gamma.

           

          supposedly adobe software requires a quadro card to send 10-bit to the display monitor, or a video i/o card. blackmagic has some starting for around $200, and there are some quadro cards that start around $200 too. the display i/o cards do not function as a gpu, so they don't use windows monitor profiles. so the monitor would have to support a calibration profile to handle adjustments, but this also removes the chance of windows interfering with the monitor display via a windows monitor profile. a quadro card would allow for a windows monitor profile to be used, but can be a bit tricky to get the quadro + geforce drivers installed for both cards. you also have to setup the nvidia control panel to tell premiere to only use the gtx 1060 for cuda, so the quadro won't slow it down and will only be for display.

           

          i'm not sure about the best/correct gamma, it seems like its not a locked down spec of rec709 and changes depending on the monitor and mfg. i've seen 2.2-2.6, so perhaps 2.4 is a good middle ground. you also need to have the lighting in your room match the destination lighting, such as a dark room for a theater, or several lights for average home tv viewing.

          • 2. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
            Alexander Eberhard Level 1

            Thanks mate!

             

            I had a long phone call with EIZO today. They offer superb support.

             

            What I have now addressed the rec709 within the calibration software and did some manuel setting to gamma of 2.4 and brightness to 100 instead of 80cd. Some ppl even recommand 120. But since I am most working at night and a dark room 120 is simply to intense for my eyes. Actually the gamma value has been adopted to 2.4 since the new UHD format and digital cameras have been around. Cant really nail that one down. Lots of opionion.

             

            The 10bit should be working with a GTX card. I will try a DP cable tomorrow, keeping my fingers crossed and let you know. 10 bit is not available yet but should be with the cable.

            Unbenannt.PNG

            • 3. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
              Alexander Eberhard Level 1

              Hi Ronin,

               

              got my DP cable today and everything works like a charm. Went into the NVIDIA panel and simply switched to 10bit. With the true 10bit EIZO monitor, colors look great. So no need to get a quadro

              • 4. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                supposedly its adobe's software that won't send out 10-bit thru the gtx cards, even if windows desktop will. did you actually notice a difference after switching to 10bit when viewing your timeline/media in premiere?

                • 5. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                  Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                  I haven't tried it but how stupid would that be if a professional software like premiere pro will block 10bit color space within its own software. After Effects for example will let you switch up to 32 bits. Where did you read this?

                  • 6. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                    Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                    Or are you saying that only quadro cards are supported?

                    • 7. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                      Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                      I would really like Adobe to take a word here please Kevin-Monahan

                       

                      The question is will my GTX 1060 10 bit signal that is working in Windows via nvidia panel also been passed through premiere pro? I see now reason why that should be blocked?

                       

                      Also I just found this statement:

                      "keep in mind, 1070/1080gtx will only output 10 bit in directx. premiere uses opengl so only 8 bit in there, in case you're wondering." true?

                      • 8. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                        RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                        I haven't tried it but how stupid would that be if a professional software like premiere pro will block 10bit color space within its own software. After Effects for example will let you switch up to 32 bits. Where did you read this?

                        AE using 32bits is internal working space, which is different than actual display output. we've asked many, many, many times for adobe to tell us what internal space premiere can work in, such as 12-16bit or even 32bit, but adobe staff never responds. the gtx 8bit display limitation was something said by an old forum regular, eric bowen, which sounded just like the quote you have in your last post for kevin. eric is responsible for a large part of the info repeated on this hardware forum, and he also contributed to other forums. its always possible that adobe has changed premiere to let it send out 10bit with a gtx card. perhaps kevin can get an official answer, but i wouldn't get hopes up.

                        • 9. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                          Alexander Eberhard Level 1

                          Thanks.

                           

                          I googled a lot in the last hour. Most people say GTX 10 bit is limited to directx. As premiere pro supposedly only supports 10 bit via opengl it should work on my GTX 1060. Is there a way to test that? Also is there a 10 bit media player?

                          • 10. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                            RoninEdits Most Valuable Participant

                            i'm not sure which, if any, media players support 10bit. a search was getting vlc results from some forums.

                             

                            i'm not sure how you could test for 10bit. perhaps if the eizo or spyder software can do a report on what is on the screen they might tell if the color is one that lives in 8bit vs 10bit range. you would then have to have a 10bit or higher color being displayed out of premiere for that software to report on. some people also try checking for banding with a gradient picture, as 10bit should have less banding. however some monitors have dithering, so it might not be a good test either.

                            • 11. Re: Working in Rec709 with 10 bit
                              erike35838767 Level 1

                              Thanks for reporting on your investigation Alexander, I too have an Eizo but sending signal through Black magic for 10bit.

                               

                              Just want to add that I think that gamma 2.2 is the standard for computer monitors and therefore web videos, 2.4 for broadcast TV, and 2.6 for cinema. This due to the common light environments we have when we are in a bright lit office, back home in duller light watching TV or in a dark room for cinema.

                               

                              Best //Erik