22 Replies Latest reply on May 29, 2017 1:58 PM by 12qwer233

    8Gb RAM Overflow

    12qwer233

      Hello!

       

      I use LR 5.7 on Win7, laptop with Intel i7-2620M, 8Gb RAM (not extendable, unfortunately), 2xSSD in Raid0 (for system, LR and catalog), external video card Radeon 6650M with 1Gb RAM in docking station and display connected to the laptop through this docking station.

      I use LR for portrait photography. I have catalog (5.8 Gb) with ~20 photos, 1 processed and 1 almost processed among them. I did like this: at first, adjusted lights, colors, turned off modules "details", "effects" and others not needed. After that I started doing "Dodge&Burn" with lots of adjustment brush strokes. I didn't finish this and LR slowed down and was not responding for some time (~4-5mins). After it was back and alive, I closed the application, optimized and backed up the catalog and decided to check what is going on with LR.

       

      Look at the first picture. At point 1 I started LR (library mode). At point 2 I changed to Develop module and started watching RAM (I didn't do anything after point 2, just monitoring). While RAM usage was "on top", LR did not respond.

      Capture2.JPG

      Some RAM was fried after a while, then full again for some reasons (I did not do anything, just monitoring).

      I waited until point 3 (5-10 min totally) and then there was some RAM free and LR responding.

      Capture4.JPG

      I added one brush stroke at point 4 and LR ate decent part of RAM. Then (point 5) I continued doing Dodge and Burn. After RAM was full (It took 30 sek), I could add 2-3 little brush strokes, wait until LR responds again (10-20 sek) and continue like this further. But it is kind of not comfortable workflow.

      Capture5.JPG

       

      I deleted all the photos except one I work with from Catalog, optimized it, however the size of the catalog remained the same, 5.8Gb, and I still had all these mentioned troubles.

       

      Actually, this is disaster and makes me regret I paid for LR. I can't process photos in LR having recommended 8 Gb of RAM!

      Is there a way to solve this problem or I should forget about LR until I buy a new computer with more memory?

        • 1. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
          dj_paige Level 9

          Lots of adjustment brush strokes will cause LR to slow down. This is a known problem, made worse by the fact that you have a relatively slow CPU.

           

          Also, please tell us the size of your original images in pixels or megapixels. Please tell us the size of your monitor in pixels.

          • 2. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
            Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

            How do you have 2xSSD's in a RAID 0 array in a notebook. If you have an i7 2620M the chipset with that CPU can go to 16BG of RAM

            And as far as I know every notebook made that used that CPU has 2 memory slots that can handle 8GB sticks in each slot to give you a total of 16GBs. That includes Apple MacBook Pros of that era, 2011 into 2012.

            • 3. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
              trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              12qwer233  wrote

               

              I have catalog (5.8 Gb) with ~20 photos, 1 processed and 1 almost processed among them. I did like this: at first, adjusted lights, colors, turned off modules "details", "effects" and others not needed. After that I started doing "Dodge&Burn" with lots of

              If you only have 20 photos imported into LR and the catalog file is 5.8 GB something is wrong. Try this:

               

              1)  Select ALL 20 files you are currently working on.

              2) Go to menu File> Export as Catalog, give it a unique name, and Save to your LR catalog folder or desktop. Make sure the below options are checked:

              EDIT: 3) Go to menu File> Open Catalog, select the .lrcat file in the new catalog folder, and try editing those 20 files again.

              • 4. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                12qwer233 Level 1

                Thank you all for the replies.

                 

                dj_paige, The pictures are 24Mp. Screen resolution is 1920x1080.

                 

                Just Shoot Me, All right, two SSDs in RAID0 (256Gb each). The laptop I owe is Sony VAIO Z21 and they used kind of customized 2x4Gb RAM modules, so it can't be extended (written in the specs). That's the price for small size and low weight (1.16 kg).

                 

                trshaner Before you replied I tried to extract the image to a separate catalog. Unfortunately, I lost the old 5.8Gb catalog. Probably, deleted a wrong backup by mistake. They were too many and too big. The one without latest retouch was 1.7Gb and I still have it. After I retouched the photo, the size increased to 5.8Gb and even more. Does it really take so much space?

                 

                So, before I saw your reply I tried to do it in this way: I created a new catalog and imported ("Import from another catalog") the only one retouched photo  from my old catalog, optimized it, and tried to retouch further. Unfortunately, it did not help, RAM overflow again. The size of the new catalog was ~3.1Gb (with one photo only).

                 

                Actually, I noticed that LR creates huge catalogs (portrait photo with brushes) a long time ago, so I usually used one catalog for one portrait photo. No sense in using LR, I know.

                 

                Another problem is that after I close LR, it is still in the processes list sometimes, eats all RAM and doesn't let me doing anything else for 5-10 min. If I stop the process, delete .lock file,  it results in catalog corruption (troubles with history). That's why i create backups all the time.

                 

                It is quite late in my country, so I'll be back tomorrow.

                • 5. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                  None of this is normal behavior! I suggest uninstalling LR, remove the old Preferences file (see below), reinstall LR 5.7.1 using a fresh download from the below link, create a "New Catalog" (File> New Catalog), and import the 20 files as new unedited files. Make sure you have your LR serial number!

                   

                  Adobe - Lightroom : For Windows : Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5.7.1

                   

                  https://www.lightroomqueen.com/articles-page/how-do-i-reset-lightrooms-preferences/

                  • 6. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                    dj_paige Level 9

                    None of this is normal behavior!

                    Lightroom slowing down after lots of brush strokes is normal (but extremely unfortunate) behavior. It has been reported over and over again, and the original poster also has a slow CPU, it all fits.

                    • 7. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                      Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                      All specs for that era CPU and chipset list it only works with 8GB of RAM because there were no 8GB modules available when it first came out. I have that same CPU in my Dell E6420 and I've installed 2 8GB chips to give me 16 total. Same goes for the Late 2011 MBP I had for a few years and I also install 16GB of RAM in that.

                      • 8. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                        12qwer233 Level 1

                        I've done it as you said, the size of the catalog (40 photos) is less then 2 Mb. I'll see what happens when I retouch one photo.

                        • 9. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                          12qwer233 Level 1

                          As far as I understand, the RAM modules were produced especially for VAIO Z21 and have not a standard size. I even heard in the web that they are soldered to the motherboard.

                          • 10. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                            dj_paige Level 9

                            An experiment you might want to try is to import some new photos (not real work) and do NO brushing and spot healing on them, and see if the performance of Lightroom is acceptable on these photos with NO brushing and spot healing.

                            • 11. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                              12qwer233 Level 1

                              Well, some years ago I used catalogs with >500 photos, but it was mainly for landscapes and trips photos. The performance was acceptable. I'll try to check how it works when I apply light and color adjustments only.

                              • 12. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                https://forums.adobe.com/people/Just+Shoot+Me  wrote

                                 

                                And as far as I know every notebook made that used that CPU has 2 memory slots that can handle 8GB sticks in each slot to give you a total of 16GBs. That includes Apple MacBook Pros of that era, 2011 into 2012.

                                The Sony Vaio Z Series laptop memory is soldered on the motherboard and cannot be upgraded. BTW- During my career I worked directly with Intel on memory certification for new chipsets. http://www.cmtlabs.com/2012/index.asp

                                 

                                Crucial is the most prolific memory provider, but I can't find an upgrade:

                                 

                                Memory & SSD Upgrades | Compatible Upgrades | Crucial.com | Crucial.com

                                 

                                https://forums.adobe.com/people/Just+Shoot+Me  wrote

                                 

                                How do you have 2xSSD's in a RAID 0 array in a notebook.

                                Yep! https://us.hardware.info/reviews/2965/3/sony-vaio-z-2012-svz1311c5e-115-kg-with-quad-core- and-full-hd-ssd-in-raid

                                • 13. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                  12qwer233 Level 1

                                  So, if I don't use local corrections, the size of the catalog is not big (megabites). After I retouched ~1/3 of a portrait (forehead, eyes), RAM was overflown (~5Gb for LR), LR slowed down and size of the catalog was ~1Gb.

                                  The conclusion I can draw is that LR is not suitable for portrait photography with thorough retouching (female portrait). If I could finish processing the photo, I would need 15Gb of free RAM and size of a catalog with 1 image would be ~3Gb. I think that developers could solve this problem by introducing layers into LR.

                                  Maybe, Photoshop would be a more suitable application for such portraits, but it is way too expensive as for hobby. Fun. LR has all the instruments I need for photo editing, but it is not applicable for portraits since ~3Gb for 1 photo is too much.

                                  • 14. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                    trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                    Editing one (1) image file and having the LR Catalog.lrcat file increase to 1 GB is not normal behavior.  Did you try my suggestion in reply #5?

                                     

                                    I suggest uninstalling LR, remove the old Preferences file (see below), reinstall LR 5.7.1 using a fresh download from the below link, create a "New Catalog" (File> New Catalog), and import the 20 files as new unedited files. Make sure you have your LR serial number!

                                     

                                    I just tested this with LR CC2015.10.1, which has similar memory usage as LR 5 if not more so! I created a new catalog, imported twenty 21Mp raw files, and edited three files with 100s of Adjustment Brush and Clone Heal spots.

                                     

                                    Edit Three Raw Files (20 files Imported)Open LRApply GlobalsApply Locals
                                    Lightroom.LRCAT File3.6 MB4.2 MB6.9 MB
                                    System Memory Usage770 MB1.39 GB2.1 GB

                                     

                                    SUGGESTION: Edit an image file that you can share here in the forum that exhibits the same behavior. Export the file to DNG file format, upload to Dropbox or other file sharing site, and provide the share link in a reply here. The DNG file will contain your edits so that we can determine if there's something unique that's causing the issue.

                                    • 15. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                      12qwer233 Level 1

                                      Sorry, I did not mention that I had done everything as you suggested and then started the "new test".

                                      I exported the portrait I was talking about to .dng file (original .dng embedded), it's size did even reduce by 1 Mb o_O

                                      I uploaded it on the dropbox

                                      I also tried to import it to the LR catalog and I noticed, that if I open develop module, I can see all the brushes and changes made before, however RAM is not overflown. After I continue retouching, memory used by LR increases in the same manner as usually. Size of the catalog with such .dng file is much lower than before and increases as I add brush strokes.

                                       

                                      I just had a thought on if it could be realated to "write to XMP file" setting turned off (it was not turned on when I deleted the settings file).

                                      I'll try to import this .dng to a new catalog with XMP turned on.

                                       

                                      Well, still the same behaviour.

                                      • 16. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                        trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                        12qwer233  wrote

                                         

                                        I just had a thought on if it could be realated to "write to XMP file" setting turned off (it was not turned on when I deleted the settings file).

                                        I'll try to import this .dng to a new catalog with XMP turned on.

                                         

                                        Well, still the same behaviour.

                                        Enabling 'Automatially Write Changes into XMP' is not necessary and will make LR run even slower with all of the Adjustment Brush and Spot Heal applications you are applying.

                                         

                                        I was hoping to find something unique with your DNG file that would explain what's happening (High Memory Usage and Catalog File Size Inflation). I downloaded the DNG file, placed it in  a separate folder, imported the folder into LR, and created a few virtual copies for testing. This brought my normally well behaving R 2015.10.1 system to a crawl before doing any editing. Both the Library and Develop modules were very sluggish!

                                         

                                        After examining the settings applied and eliminating them one-by-one it appears the high number of Spot Heal applications are causing the performance issues. LR's memory usage never went above 3.5 GB, but I'm on LR 6 (CC 2015). Also the LR catalog file only increased by about 70 MB (1.78 GB> 1.85 GB). Again this may be something unique to LR 5 that was fixed in LR 6. Even though I couldn't duplicate your issue (Memory Usage & Catalog Inflation) the credit goes to

                                         

                                        SUGGESTIONS

                                        1) It appears many of the Spot Heal applications are almost on top of each other. You might try using a larger Spot Heal Size to reduce the number of spots required.  

                                         

                                        2) I also noticed you are applying a large number of Color Corrections, which are most likely conflicting with each other and probably not required. This article may be helpful for establishing a more natural skin tone:

                                         

                                        https://petapixel.com/2014/10/01/colorchecker-how-to-get-perfect-skin-colors-with-every-ca mera/

                                         

                                        3) You can also trial test LR 6 to see if it reduces the memory usage and catalog file inflation. You can have both your current LR 5.7.1 and LR 6 installed at the same time with no conflict. You an also test Photoshop if the issue persists.

                                         

                                        Download a free trial or buy Adobe products | Adobe downloads

                                         

                                        Spot Heal.jpgthe only suggestion

                                        • 17. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                          12qwer233 Level 1

                                          Thank you for your reply and suggestions.

                                          • 18. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                            trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                            I was investigating a similar performance complaint this morning and looked further at your portrait image. I reset the Spot Clone tool remove all applications and found LR still very laggy. I next reset the Adjustment Brush to remove all of its applications. Performance returned to normal with no other settings changed. After examining the Adjustment Brush spots it looks like you had Auto Mask selected on some of the brushes. This created a very "complex" mask, which requires considerably more data to be stored in the LR Catalog file and much higher memory and processor utilization to render the image real-time. Below is the mask overlay visualization for the Adjustment Brush spot underlined in red (forehead area). I would suggest not using the Auto Mask setting for this type of retouching since it really isn't helpful and causes performance issues.

                                             

                                            With your permission I would like to share the portrait DNG for further discussion with Adobe Engineering concerning performance issues. Is that OK?

                                            Adjustment Brush With Auto Mask - Multiple Brush Spots Slows System .jpg

                                            • 19. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                              12qwer233 Level 1

                                              Yes, it is absolutely ok with me if you share the photo with Adobe engineers.

                                              Regarding the Auto Mask setting. Probably, it was set by me by mistake. I'll try to avoid using it, however I'm not sure if it would increase the performance significantly.

                                              • 20. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                                Just Shoot Me Adobe Community Professional

                                                Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with all the color correcting. I reset the image and what you applied makes that very attractive young lady look like a vampire or someone that has been bled of most of their blood. Here is that same image with the color restored and some minor spot healing and one adjustment brush applied.

                                                 

                                                Attractive Girl.PNG

                                                • 21. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                                  trshaner Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                  https://forums.adobe.com/people/Just+Shoot+Me  wrote

                                                   

                                                  Not sure what you are trying to accomplish with all the color correcting.

                                                  While I respect your point of view the OP is looking for assistance with performance issues due to system memory limitations (8GB). You can see my suggestions in reply # 16 & 18. Any other ideas that might be helpful with this issue?

                                                  • 22. Re: 8Gb RAM Overflow
                                                    12qwer233 Level 1

                                                    Thank you for your opinion. In general, I agree with you. However, the picture was not finished and it would be split toned in the end, so the skin color was desaturated intentionally. Such corrections help me to

                                                    - separate colors on the picture

                                                    - simplify the skin color

                                                    - increase picture volume

                                                    - and more.

                                                     

                                                    I think this is not the reason of the performance issues.