23 Replies Latest reply on Oct 26, 2008 2:21 PM by :::@:::

    Adobe program for nicer computers!!!

    C-Rock Level 2
      I've been a creative professional for some years now and I never understood why companies like Adobe don't program for individuals or companies that keep their equipment up to date.

      I've been working with Vista 64-bit since the day it came out. I have to say I haven't had much trouble with programs working, except Acrobat Pro. I use the 64-bit version because when available I will be able to use 128 GB's of memory. I installed my CS3 suite from day one and every thing worked great, minus Acrobat. My beef was that the instruction sets, processor cores/threads and the extra memory were never utilized. In fact Adobe had to release a multi-core update for photoshop to work correctly, months later. It ran like an 8086 processor computer until the release. In fact I was using CS2 for photoshop.

      So needless to say I was pretty excited about the new CS4 to utilize all the power of my 9770 processor and 16 GB's of memory, not to mention the talk of 64 bit programs. How exciting someone over there is moving forward!

      HOW ABOUT NO!!! Nice work Adobe. You made one 64 bit program that only accepts 8 GB's of memory. So when the new i7 intel processor comes out in a month with the x58 chipset using 24 GB's of memory won't work with the software I use every day, Flash and Photoshop won't use anymore than my two year old technology computer can throw at it.

      We're talking 8 threads for the processor and 24 GB's of memory to start with. You know the power that would give the customer and how much faster and easier working with Adobe products would be? Sometimes I have Photoshop, Flash, Illustrator and AE open. All while checking emails and using the internet.

      Developing to use all the features of the processors and newer hardware would be nice as well. Instead of using all 18 months to develop CS5 and just adding two or three features, do something that matters. We want power to be use by our software if we have it.

      My new CS4 products take about 10 seconds to open because of the poor use of resources. I have a computer that is in the top 1% in the world for desktops. I would like to see a return on my investment by the software I use actually working faster not slower, like it does now. I feel like I need an update for Flash becaue it takes twice as long to publish.

      I'm a member of the research team that you hired for feedback on the new products and you won't be getting a good review from me. I feel like I paid for a new suite, again, my fifth one, and didn't get very much for my money. I was expecting fast, multi-core processor support, lots of memory support and 64 bit support. I can only image how outraged Mac users are about not having any 64 bit support. This technology is going on its 5th year of being public. All programs should be available in 64 bit. Most every other company out there has a 64 bit version for all of their software...

      A refund would be nice or a new manager of the programming department. Some new guy keeping up with technology and researching the direction of the updates in versions.

      Don't expect me to buy CS5 until CS6 comes out or at all. CS5 may catch up to the hardware technology by then...

      Sincerely,
      Disappointed...
        • 1. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
          Level 7
          >>I never understood why companies like Adobe don't program for individuals
          >>or companies that keep their equipment up to date.

          Come on... Are you joking? You never understood why Adobe and others don't
          make special accomodations for a tiny subset of people on the bleeding edge?
          Nuff said...


          --
          Dave -
          www.offroadfire.com
          Head Developer
          http://www.blurredistinction.com
          Adobe Community Expert
          http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/


          • 2. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
            C-Rock Level 2
            Bleeding edge, 5 years isn't the bleeding edge. Multi-core processors with two newer instruciton sets isn't the bleeding edge when they've been around 3 years. Do you think that 5 years of 64 bit is not enough for them to develop for it? Come on, that's a half a$$ effort putting out one program in a suite of 15 that is 64-bit. If it's not worth it then why put one out?

            My point was the technology isn't just in the tiny subset anymore and this new version should have atleast caught up some, it's built on the same architecture that CS3 was.

            • 3. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
              Level 7
              C-Rock,

              > Bleeding edge, 5 years isn't the bleeding edge.

              Of course not. But having a computer "in the top 1% in the world" (your
              words) is bleeding edge. What kind of profit margin could anyone be
              expected to make for 1% of their audience?

              > My point was the technology isn't just in the tiny
              > subset anymore and this new version should have
              > atleast caught up some, it's built on the same
              > architecture that CS3 was.

              So you don't care about any of the new features? You'd rather launch
              CS4 within a single second, instead of 10 seconds -- and that's more
              important than using the same feature set as last time?

              I have 3GB of RAM, and I'm building content left and right. I'm baffled
              as to what you would do with 128GB of memory.


              David Stiller
              Adobe Community Expert
              Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
              "Luck is the residue of good design."


              • 4. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                Level 7
                100% agreed with David C-Rock. Just cause you've had it for a while doesn't
                mean it's not new... Geez.

                --
                Dave -
                www.offroadfire.com
                Head Developer
                http://www.blurredistinction.com
                Adobe Community Expert
                http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/


                • 5. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                  Level 7
                  >> I have 3GB of RAM, and I'm building content left and right. I'm
                  >> baffled
                  as to what you would do with 128GB of memory.

                  Hehe... I have 1GB. Right now I have open: Outlook, Flash, FlashDevelop,
                  Dreamweaver, Word and FireFox and it all plays nicely. 128GB of RAM is
                  useless. Seriously. Unless you have a RAM disk or are doing buku 3D work, it
                  is absolutely unnecessary and complaining about it is even more unnecessary.

                  Sorry C-Rock, but you ARE on the bleeding edge... Adobe will likely cater to
                  people like you eventually, but when you are in the ultra-minority it
                  doesn't make a whole lot of sense profit wise. Quite surprising you can't
                  see that yourself.

                  --
                  Dave -
                  www.offroadfire.com
                  Head Developer
                  http://www.blurredistinction.com
                  Adobe Community Expert
                  http://www.adobe.com/communities/experts/


                  • 6. Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                    :::@:::
                    whatever.....
                    (I tried to say something rational here, but figured out it would be to no avail....)
                    Hey, if you love your work, you could be happy even with "archaic" Flash 8, did you know that?
                    • 7. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                      C-Rock Level 2
                      Then your computers are running differently than mine so you don't understand. Sometimes when a computer has a processor or components that don't work well with software it actually can run slower, much slower. That's the reason why adobe had to create the multicore processor plug-in for CS3, research it. It ran like it was 1995.

                      It's not that I need Flash to load in 1 second, I need things to perform where they don't slow me down. I do like the new features I was just saying that I would like have performace and features. They shouldn't have to pick and choose, put both in.

                      Time is money and at the end of the day when you've wasted nearly an hour worth of work time waiting then that's not right. All I'm saying is I'm not the only one with this kind of hardware/os and I'm surprised that Adobe hasn't spent a little more effort in making them work better for those computers.

                      3 plus years isn't the Bleeding edge. Can you agree that a 64-bit OS and multicore processors have been out for 3 or more years? If not then you know nothing about computers. Anyone in the last 3 years that has purchased a computer isn't seeing his/her value for their money with this software. You have 3GB's of memory because you have a 32-bit os, I don't expect you to understand...

                      My computer being in the top 1% wasn't saying Adobe needs to deveop to my computer, it was saying it shouldn't be slow because it's not.

                      You're just going to think I'm bitc$ing about new software and the cost if you don't see my performace. Other companies are finding it worth while to keep up with the "bleeding edgers" why not Adobe...
                      • 8. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                        Level 7
                        C-Rock,

                        > It's not that I need Flash to load in 1 second, I need
                        > things to perform where they don't slow me down.

                        I agree with that principle, for sure. I'm just saying ... on my
                        comparatively slow equipment, I can't think of anything that especially
                        slows me down. Maybe you're talking about converting video files to FLV all
                        day long. Other than conversions like that, which make up a very small
                        percentage of my workflow, I don't notice any lag in the drawing tools, in
                        saving files, in compiling my apps (regardless of language), or really, in
                        anything.

                        > Time is money and at the end of the day when you've
                        > wasted nearly an hour worth of work time waiting then
                        > that's not right.

                        Waiting for what? I'm asking honestly; no sarcasm, seriously.

                        > You have 3GB's of memory because you have a 32-bit os,
                        > I don't expect you to understand...

                        C-Rock ... what would I not understand? That's almost an insult.
                        Certainly I understand the principle you're talking about. Bigger, faster,
                        meaner, leaner. Your motorcycle is louder than mine, I get it.

                        What I don't get is how your top 1% computer makes you a faster artist
                        or a faster coder (assuming, of course, Flash were to fully take advantage
                        of your hardware). I'm not trying to smack you down, I'm asking you to be
                        more specific. What part of your workflow causes you to lose an hour of
                        productivity?


                        David Stiller
                        Adobe Community Expert
                        Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
                        "Luck is the residue of good design."


                        • 9. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                          C-Rock Level 2


                          >I agree with that principle, for sure. I'm just saying ... on my
                          >comparatively slow equipment, I can't think of anything that especially
                          >slows me down. Maybe you're talking about converting video files to FLV all
                          >day long. Other than conversions like that, which make up a very small
                          >percentage of my workflow, I don't notice any lag in the drawing tools, in
                          >saving files, in compiling my apps (regardless of language), or really, in
                          >anything.

                          >Waiting for what? I'm asking honestly; no sarcasm, seriously.

                          Not compiling flv's just creating clips, publishing and having several other apps going. My operations from click to click are just slow...

                          >C-Rock ... what would I not understand? That's almost an insult.
                          >Certainly I understand the principle you're talking about. Bigger, faster,
                          >meaner, leaner. Your motorcycle is louder than mine, I get it.

                          Not at all, you wouldn't understand because everything is made for your computer and runs great.

                          >What I don't get is how your top 1% computer makes you a faster artist
                          >or a faster coder (assuming, of course, Flash were to fully take advantage
                          >of your hardware). I'm not trying to smack you down, I'm asking you to be
                          >more specific. What part of your workflow causes you to lose an hour of
                          >productivity?

                          The general workflow causes the delay. The waiting until I can click again or publish again. Waiting on fonts to populate when I create a text file. It's just slow, that's the only way to explain. Much slower than my Flash 8. I like to be as fast as I can at building mc's and coding. When you have a block of code 1000 lines long and click on another pinned section of code that is a 1000 lines long it takes about 5 seconds before I can begin typing. That's a major slow down.

                          The big kicker is Adobe's Technical Support office, as of yesterday, didn't even have a 64-bit computer in house...
                          • 10. Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                            :::@::: Level 1
                            quote:

                            Originally posted by: C-Rock

                            Much slower than my Flash 8.


                            Of course it will be much slower than Flash 8! You seem to be understanding but just don't want to accept the real truth, do you?

                            This is why on my laptop I stay with Flash 8! And why I'll never install CS3 or 4. I certainly am not crazy to wait an hour and a half just to install a single program! And what if I have to install 200 like these, something like my laptop installation looks to be now?!?!? Adobe, better listen to this.

                            And why do you say buying the top-end computer is an investment, given it will cost a fraction of it's price in just 2 or 3 years?
                            The only investment I can think of in the world of technology is in stereo equipment. You buy a 15 thousand $ LP record player and can be certain it will stay top player even in 30 years. But for computer? Why? Just wait 2 years and you could buy that bleeding edge product not for 5000 but for 500.

                            • 11. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                              C-Rock Level 2
                              Working on laptop? I could never do it. I'm used to working on 4 22" monitors...

                              I disagree with your assessment of hardware. In fact one of the first extreme processors that I purchased was 4 years ago at 1500 and today it's 1100. Highend equipment doesn't decline as severly as mainstream equipment.

                              With everything else I do on my computer the technology is worth it. Including the 3D work that I do.

                              Here's another example: In photoshop the batch image processor is a great feature. But since the upgrade for me, in hardware, it hasn't worked like expected. In Flash CS2 with my new system I could process 500 images in less than 15 minutes. With CS4 it takes over 2 hours. If it would utilize the power of my machine it should take about a minute or two.

                              As far as installing go, CS3 is far slower than CS4. I installed the entire master collection of CS4 in less than 30 mintues. That was with every program and every single feature.
                              • 12. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                Level 7
                                C-Rock,

                                > Not at all, you wouldn't understand because everything is
                                > made for your computer and runs great.

                                This is the sentence that put the lightbulb over my head.

                                > The general workflow causes the delay. The waiting until
                                > I can click again or publish again. Waiting on fonts to
                                > populate when I create a text file. It's just slow, that's the
                                > only way to explain.

                                Now I understand. I was mistakenly under the impression that you
                                experience all the speed I do (which basically means no delays), yet felt
                                that you needed even more. But you're saying that Flash CS4 performs even
                                slower for you, on your high-end equipment, than it does for me.

                                In that case, I would probably feel disappointed too, in your shoes.


                                David Stiller
                                Adobe Community Expert
                                Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
                                "Luck is the residue of good design."


                                • 13. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                  :::@::: Level 1
                                  Yes, C-Rock I understand you are angry you cant utilise this nice maschine you have. Working on multiple displays is great, I know this from personal experience too.
                                  But why then instead of buying packages of software which just clog your computer with useless processes and oiliy icons you don't stick with what you're pleased with? You say it yourself: with every next version of the software your computer becomes slower and slower!
                                  You're right. Progress is about making computers faster, not oililier, if you don't get what you expect of progress, then make the best you can, after all with every next version the added features are either missing or negligently unimportant. XP is a good OS and there's 64 bit XP, why clog your PC with Vista?! The same goes for Adobe.
                                  • 14. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                    stormstudios
                                    Flash 8 to Flash CS3or4 is a bad comparison and I actually agree with C-Rock. Macromedia made some DAMN FINE applications that ran soooooooooo smoothly on any computer I ever used. My Flash CS3 doesn't even keep the panels in the same place when I open the software.

                                    I support C-Rock on this one (although I think 4-22" monitors is a little crazy) any hardware improvement should NEVER be a cause of slowing the application down. I'm surprised Adobe wouldn't be testing on 64 bit machines. I run Cakewalk SONAR and it has been 64 bit for 2 years now but runs just fine on my 32 bit machine thereby giving all users the best use of the software they can.

                                    Honestly, I think the merger of Adobe and Macromedia failed and Adobe's programmers are not being the leading or bleeding edge company they want to be. They seem a little bit behind.

                                    Don't get me started on the CS4 UPGRADE when not all the software has been fully uograded!
                                    • 15. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                      Level 7
                                      RDcollege,

                                      > any hardware improvement should NEVER be a cause
                                      > of slowing the application down.

                                      This isn't about hardware improvement per se. Add a faster processor
                                      and more RAM to your 32-bit machine, and you'll see a positive difference.
                                      It's about 64-bit machines and taking advantage of more processors and
                                      different memory configurations. The hardware depends on the OS.

                                      > I'm surprised Adobe wouldn't be testing on 64 bit machines.

                                      Based on what C-Rock said, it's apparently their support deparment (or
                                      one of many support departments) that doesn't have any 64-bit machines.
                                      Unless someone from Adobe responds to this thread, we have no idea what
                                      platforms and machines Adobe tests and actually writes their apps on.

                                      > Honestly, I think the merger of Adobe and Macromedia
                                      > failed and Adobe's programmers are not being the leading
                                      > or bleeding edge company they want to be.

                                      ...

                                      I'm not even sure how to reply to that one. Since the merger, we have a
                                      number of new fronts, like AIR and the CS4 Suite, which is chock full of
                                      leading/bleeding edge features. Many of the programmers currently working
                                      for Adobe are direct hires from the former Macromedia dev team.

                                      Asserting that the merger has failed is easy enough. Backing up that
                                      assertion is going to take a bit more.

                                      > Don't get me started on the CS4 UPGRADE when not all
                                      > the software has been fully uograded!

                                      Would you name some specifics? Without specifics, it sounds like you're
                                      assuming that readers will simply agree with you -- and naturally, some
                                      will -- but if your intent is to persuade ... let's hear your grievances.


                                      David Stiller
                                      Adobe Community Expert
                                      Dev blog, http://www.quip.net/blog/
                                      "Luck is the residue of good design."


                                      • 16. Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                        :::@::: Level 1
                                        I think it would be better that Adobe turns attention to the fact that not always its software is run on the most high-end desktop maschine.
                                        There are people with laptops, some are using powerful processors, some prefer the Intel's battery-modest Ultra Low Voltage models which run at max 1.3 GHz.

                                        And laptop's HDDs are still in most cases much slower, it's madness an installation of Adobe Illustrator CS3 to take twice the time for installing Windows XP. Should laptop users be banished from working on the go with Photoshop and Flash?

                                        Even in the desktop range not all of us have or are willing to have the most powerful of everything, some people might just prefer to sacrifice a bit of performace for a much quieter and cooler PC with minimum or no fans in it. If I was buying a new PC I would go exactly for the most quiet one, not the most powerful.

                                        Flash 8 isn't very different from Flash CS3, then why is the latter so resourse hungry? And Flash 8 can be run even on Pentium 3, while CS3 needs nothing less than pure last generation Core2Duo. Why?
                                        And when even people like C-Rock start to complain, maybe it's really a problem.

                                        • 17. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                          C-Rock Level 2
                                          Then why not have a panel in the preferences of bridge that will allow you to configure how you'd like your Adobe programs to run? If you're on a laptop and you'd like the programs not to use a lot of resources for the reasons noted in a previous post then you can select that. If you'd like the super beefy all you can throw at the system settings then you choose that. Or mayabe build a custom setting.

                                          Vista has a similar feature when it comes to power consumption of the PC. Maybe Adobe could model something after that. You build your own plan for the software to run according to your preferences and the system your on?

                                          Of course the software would have to be "smart" and be able to accomodate all of the users by adjusting itself and loading the specific dll's or right files settings for this? Wonder if that would be worth it to adobe? It's not too far off from the memory allocation tool they have now. Just way more in depth. That's only in photoshop and AE from what I have experienced. If it's in bridge it would be system wide but hopefully work better than the color management. My colors in Flash and Photoshop still don't match... But that's another topic...

                                          That may be the best idea I've ever had, a software tweaker for your Adobe software. I don't know where it came from, lol...
                                          • 18. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                            stormstudios Level 1
                                            I know you want to come to Adobe's defense on this David and that's ok.

                                            Firstly, I know Macromedia programmers were brought over with the merger, but they had to adopt their code to the Adobe implementation of the interface. Flash as software just does not run as smoothly as it did before. The examples of Panels was to illustrate that Macromedia's programmers had to make their programming fit Adobe's model and certain features just didn't work. They've had time to correct this and smooth out the bugs but that didn't happen. So, from our Flash example, we can see problems were actually introduced into Flash from the merger of the programmers and it never has been as smooth.

                                            As for my upgrade comment, I would prefer if Adobe listed which software actually changed and had actual upgrades if they sold on their own. Just calling it CS4 doesn't make it an upgrade unless they actually had a development cycle for it and introduced new features. Flash? for sure it is new...many new "designery" features. Fireworks and DW? You bet! They showed us the betas in the labs. All good. InDesign? No idea. Bridge? I think so. There was something. Premiere? No idea if it's new or not. That's where I was going. They've promoted the Suites without really being clear on what is new.

                                            I agree they've brought out "bleeding edge features" I wasn't denying that. They've been moving very quickly at introducing things, but we haven't seen any improvements into how the software works smoothly on various machines. Macromedia software ran so smooth on old laptops as it did on high end machines. Photoshop 7 was THE most stable PS version. All we'd like to see when we defend our software purchases to our employers is new features and making it easier and faster to do our work.

                                            Failed? Strong words. Your right. Economically? no no the merger rocked the world! BUT from a consumer perspective of the amount of money NOW flying out the door for the software, there's definitely less on the return. It's a natural part of being too big. So, you can jump on any side you want and pick which you want to define it as. I'd really like Adobe to clean up it's programming a little bit and maybe go out and buy a 64 bit machine for testing. If they do that AND improve the software's performance people have absolutely NO PROBLEMS with giving Adobe more and more money. I'd rather live in an Adobe world than a Microsoft one (which is what they want) but right now I would rather just give the Macromedia fellas my money. I had no idea how great of a job they did until after the results of the merger. That's what I meant by fail but I do know Adobe as a company is stronger as a result of the merger. Shouldn't both be moving forward together?

                                            Heck, I'd even still buy FreeHand if they could start selling it again.
                                            • 19. Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                              :::@::: Level 1
                                              C-Rock, don't be misguided that lots of features mean necessarily multigigabyte installation folders and need for supercomputer. 3ds max 6 for sure has more features than, say, Illustrator, but is way more modest on system resources. You DON'T NEED to suffocare your computer in order to get the most feature-rich and beautifully looking application! And certainly, you don't need 3 GBs per program installation! This means increased MFTs, more registry entries and so on, and so on, all things which suffocate your PC.
                                              Eventually, if you put 3 tons on a Ferrari it will be outrun by Golf, right? Or like a street thug - big and powerful, but stupid!
                                              What I'd like to see are applications which complement my computer's speed, not taking advantage of it!
                                              • 20. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                                C-Rock Level 2
                                                Not real sure what you are trying to say there except maybe I have too many apps on my Ferrari computer, which is crazy. If anything I have a 1,000 pound Ferrari. Your logic doesn't make much sense, I'm not some dummy who doesn't understand hardware or software. In face I have an electronic engineering degree and I have build computers from scratch, from the capacitors and board up. I also now that I'm much more lazy, build all my computers part by part, so I know what they can do. I'm very much a nerd when it comes to the latest tech in computers. I reformat my hard drives every three months and have a great deal of experience in c language. So I'm not sure what you're getting at my building a computer that can handle many many resources at once isn't dumb... Like I said my computer's run very very fast with Vista 64-bit. It's just my junk Adobe software that doesn't...
                                                • 21. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                                  monkboymark
                                                  My buddy has recently purchased some top of the line Alienware multicore 64bit beast... and they shipped it with a 32bit version of the OS...

                                                  say no more!
                                                  • 22. Re: Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                                    C-Rock Level 2
                                                    what's your point? i've installed the software over 30 times on different computers and the difference in the disks (32 and 64 bit) is about 8 point type saying its a 64 bit version. easy mistake. my 64-bit is awesome, works great from day one...

                                                    maybe your buddy didn't buck up enough cash for a nice enough system to handle the resource requirement of the 64 bit version?

                                                    saying it's a 64 bit multicore beast doesn't tell me anything.
                                                    • 23. Adobe program for nicer computers!!!
                                                      :::@::: Level 1
                                                      C-Rock, I don't argue with you. As you see, I support your thesis. It's more likely another point of view.
                                                      Which is that fine software doesn't need to take hours to install and gigabytes of disk space and multicore processors to run.
                                                      We all like to have the latest computers but we want to use them for more speed, not just to be able to run the latest software.
                                                      P.S. It's a greed, I want my computer's resources and speed for my own personal pleasure, not for the pleasure of the applications I run.