7 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2017 6:26 AM by OM26R

    Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer

    OM26R Level 1

      Hi.

      I've made smooth head turns via Cycle layers but... when I turn to one side - it's ok, cicle layer works, but when I turn back (to frontal) it's jump. why? I've set "forward and reverse" - nothing. So now it seems like I moving to the Left Quarter - it's awesome, Frontal - it jumps to Frontal. And if you add Profile - it will so awkward when you move from Profile to Quarter it will jump to 1st frame of Quarter (from Profile almost to Frontal without reverse on Profile) and then play Quarter to the end. It looks like not head turn from Profile to Quarter but like "no" sign jump movements. ! Is there no playback animation in CH now?

      And also Eyelids, pupils  stopped work when I applied smooth head turns via Cycle layer ((( only In frontal vew it works

      But mouth, autoblink work perfect.

      I've tried to turn head with camera, keyboard triggers - the same.

      Yandex.Disk  here is the part of my characters with all of these problems

      Also I've noticed, when I head with keyboard trigger - it works smooth to forward and reverse (camera input didn't reverse), but eye problems still there. pls help

        • 1. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
          CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

          Problem 1: Head-Turner-driven animation animates _into_ the head movement, but not back to Frontal in reverse.

           

          What's happening is that the Head Turner triggers, say, Right Quarter, which starts the cycle in that group, holding on the last layer. All good so far. But when you go back to Frontal, from Head Turner's point of view, it just triggers the Frontal group. Cycle Layers says "hey, I'm not finished with my cycle (since On Trigger End is set to Let Cycle Finish), so it continues to trigger the Right Quarter group". So now _both_ Frontal and Right Quarter are being triggered at the same time. The way these conflicts are resolved is by triggering the frontmost layer/group. In your artwork, Frontal is in front of Right Quarter. So it wins, you never see the returning animation.

           

          Solution: in Illustrator (or Ch, but better to make structural changes in the original artwork) move the Frontal group in front the profile groups. That way the conflict is resolved in favor of your animated groups, and you don't miss the animation.

           

          Problem 2: Eyelids & pupils not working with combination of Cycle Layers and Head Turner.

           

          If you select the top-level puppet and examine the Face > Views in the properties panel you'll see that it has found the 3 views (Frontal, Left Quarter, Right Quarter), and if you look at Face > Handles > Left Eye you'll see that it found the left eye in Frontal, Left Quarter/1, and Right Quarter/1 -- in other words, only the first frame of your turn animations. So the last frame isn't found, and isn't being controlled. The matching of handles for Face (and Eye Gaze) starts at the views, and only looks for one set of features per view. You might think you could just also tag the numbered groups each with Right Quarter, but layer tags don't match children within matched groups (would get confusing if it did). And if you _only_ tagged the numbered groups, it would work for Face, but they'd all get triggered by Head Turner at the same time, and you'd only see the frontmost group.

           

          Solution: to force Face to find the inner numbered groups, select them all in the puppet panel and apply the Face behavior. This means you'll have a lot more Face behaviors applied, which is a downside for clutter, but an upside if you want individual control over the face in different views (e.g. in a profile view you might want to reduce eyebrow sensitivity because it's less accurate as you turn your head away). Note that when you apply a behavior to a group within a puppet, the same behavior applied at the top level will automatically not "find" handles and layers inside that group, so they won't get double-controlled.

           

          The reason the mouths & auto-blinks were already working is that they don't care about views. Lip Sync matches on mouths within a group tagged Mouth Group. And Auto Blink just looks for layers tagged Left/Right Blink. So one way we could make this simpler is to have a new tag called Face Group, and have the Face behavior look for that group instead of the views (leaving those to Head Turner).

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
            OM26R Level 1

            thx a lot, I've apllied also Eye Gaze to numbered groups for pupils movement, because Face affects only on eyelids in my case.

            Also I've added the Profile view at this test character, and in works smooth like - 1 Frontal, 2 Left Quarter, 3 Left Quarter, 4 Left Profile, 5 Left Profile, 4 Left Profile, 3 Left Quarter, 2 Left Quarter, 1 Frontal.

            But on my general puppets it works like 1 Frontal, 2 Left Quarter, 3 Left Quarter, 4 Left Profile, 5 Left Profile, 4 Left Profile, 2 Left Quarter, 3 Left Quarter,  2 Left Quarter, 1 Frontal.

            I don't know why, maybe somewhere I've made a mistake.

            • 3. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
              OM26R Level 1

              I think I've found the bug. So the problem in my general puppets - Profile view has no smooth extra frames, so it constist only in 1 frame, the Quarter has 2 frames. So at the test puppet Quarter and Profile are smoothed (have 2 frames each), and it wor perfect from Fromntal to Profile and back.

              But if we have at the Profile only 1 frame and will try to move back to Quarter with 2 frames (Cycle Layer) so it will show not the final frame but 1st and starts play animation. And it will be like (frames) 4-2-3-2-1, not like 5-4-3-2-1 if we'd have 2 frames for each view.

              So it's like if we not have Cycle layer at the next turn stage the previous do not use "hold on the last frame" and "reverse" properly.

              • 4. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
                CoSA_DaveS Adobe Employee

                Yes, for this scheme to work as you extend to the profile views, they need to have the same number of animated positions as the quarter views, and the profile views must be in front of the quarter views in layer order (for the same reason as the Frontal ordering above).

                 

                That way, when triggering of Head Turner moves from profile back to quarter, as the profile view is running backwards, the quarter view is running forwards, but you don't see that (which indeed you don't want to see it since it's running in the wrong direction for returning back to that view from profile) until profile is finished running backwards, so it all lines up without missing a frame.

                 

                This is all way more complicated that we'd like it to be. We're always working to make things simpler. All suggestions welcome!

                • 5. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
                  OM26R Level 1

                  thx a lot! one more and final question - did I do that correct by applying Face (for eyelids) and Eye Gaze (for pupil movement) for numbered layers?

                  • 7. Re: Eyes& eyelids, reverse problems with head turns via Cycle layer
                    OM26R Level 1

                    ok, thx a lot! appreciate it!