13 Replies Latest reply on Jul 1, 2017 3:21 PM by Trevor.Dennis

    My Computer Died :-(

    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

      Bugger!     I opened Speccy to check something in a Prem Pro Hardware forum thread yesterday, and got a shock when I saw that my CPU is in the mid 80°s C with just a browser window running.  Time to clean the radiator and fans I thought, but that made no difference.  In fact this time, just opening Photoshop took the CPU to 90°C and the computer switched itself off.   A more detailed investigation showed that the radiator inlet was getting warm, but nowhere near the indicated CPU temperature, and the radiator was not even getting warm, so the pump is probably dead.   This is within an ace of a rebuild, as soon as the i9X X299, or Threadripper hardware becomes available. 


      So I have ordered a Noctua D14, and I have everything crossed that the CPU (a still expensive 3930K) is OK.  I'll be passing this box on to my wife when the new build is done, and she never does anything heavier than a few dozen browser windows with upwards of 50 tabs on each window (Women! ) so she wouldn't need the 3930K, but I am limited on alternatives with my X79-UD5 main board.   Mean while, I am stuck with my laptop, which while pretty fast, I still don't enjoy using Photoshop, and it woild be way too much trouble hooking up my external drives to access my files.


      BTW  Anyone else looking at i9X and X299, or Threadripper?

        • 1. Re: My Computer Died :-(
          JJMack Most Valuable Participant

          Time to enjoy some New Zealand  Sauvignon Blanc you did move there enjoy, slow down sell the roses.

          • 2. Re: My Computer Died :-(
            Zaid Al Hilali Adobe Community Professional

            Bugger indeed. Just like JJMack said, relax and celebrate your well earned Americas Cup

            • 3. Re: My Computer Died :-(
              Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

              JJ, right now we are pruning the roses.  We are pruning the vines as well.  There are so many here now, that they start pruning almost as soon as they have harvested, using imported seasonal labour from the Pacific Islands.  


              Our news has been 99.99% Americas Cup for two days now, and then we have sport, which is all about Americas Cup.  My wife will kill me if she sees this, but every time it came on the TV she kept ranting that she did not understand how this could be sailing, with all those people peddling bicycles.  It actually took me two or three days of this before I twigged that she thought the bike peddles drove propellers, and that's why the boat was so fast!!!  

              Zaid Al Hilali

              The new cooler is on its way from Auckland — where the next Americas Cup will be held — and I have fingers crossed that it will fix things and that my CPU is not fried.



              Phew!!!  I was just watching a YouTube video on fitting the big Nocua D14, and got to a part where he turned the mainboard upside down to fit a backplate.  For one terrible moment, I thought I was going to have to remove the mainboard, which would have been a nightmare because despite it being a big case (Coolermaster Storm Trooper), access is not great, and every SATA socket is used.  So I rushed out to the workshop and took the side covers off, and thank goodness, there is a large rectangular hole giving ample access to the back of the CPU.    I am 'so' going to get the new build put together for me.

              • 4. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                Zaid Al Hilali Adobe Community Professional

                Trevor.Dennis  wrote

                It actually took me two or three days of this before I twigged that she thought the bike peddles drove propellers, and that's why the boat was so fast!!!  


                Zaid Al Hilali

                Many thought the same over here in Dubai as you know the team named "Emirates Team New Zealand" whenever the footage comes up in the news I had to explain what the cyclists were doing on a boat!


                Here is a photo from my office in Dubai after the news…

                IMG_0820 (1).jpg

                • 5. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                  davescm Adobe Community Professional

                  Now that is a spooky co-incidence !!


                  Last week the cooler on my 3930K failed. There was strange noise within the case, sounded like something caught in a fan but next thing I knew the BIOS flashed up a temperature warning and everything shut down. I took the case off and felt the radiator which was cool. I felt the processor and ouch it was hot !!!!


                  After letting everything cool I restarted and same again - the pump (an Intel) was not working. Fortunately we have  large computer store only a few miles away so a drive down there saw me return with a Corsair cooling system which took just a few minutes to fit. I tried nice 3D render to test it with CPUID HW Monitor watching the temps. It worked well, so everything was up and running again just a couple of hours after failing.


                  It is now a week on and there doesn't seem to have been any adverse effect on the processor.



                  • 6. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                    Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                    Goodness, that is spooky indeed.  I've been involved in a couple of threads on the PremPro Hardware forum just recently, and someone over there said the Intel water coolers (I am using one as well) only have the three year life expectancy.  Mine is five years old, and I got no noisy pump warning.  Just soaring CPU temperatures. 


                    Where did you feel the hight CPU temp by touching?  The water block cover feels plastic, and was not particularly hot to touch.   I'm sure it was really getting hot though.  Performance slowed to a crawl before it shut down completely.


                    What Corsair cooler did you by?  As much as I love NZ, there are only a million people in the entire South Island, and most of those are in Christchurch, Nelson, Dunedin and Invercargill.  Marlborough is about the size of Essex and Suffolk combined, and has just, 45,000 people, so we don't have a Curries/PC World on every corner.  On the plus side, we get annoyed if catch up a single vehicle on State Highways, but they always let you pass — unless they are bloody tourists in camper vans. Grrrrr


                    Bill Gehrke does not believe in water cooling, and that is interesting.  Bill, along with Harm Millaard, is behind the PPBM websites, and his hobby pushing computer hardware to the limit.


                    Anyone thinking about building a high end computer, then Puget Systems has done a comparison with Ryzen and the i9-7900X with Premiere Pro.   the 7900X beats the uber expensive 6930K, and I'm hoping to build with the 7920X (which is just $300 more than the 7900X) so it should have a wider margin.  Most Photoshop functions use just one thread, so clock speed is king. Note i9X will have another advantage with Photoshop, as the max boost turbo feature automatically picks the two fastest cores and runs them at 4.5Ghz   With much  faster memory, and uber fast NMVe drives,  there should be significant gains with a new build.


                    https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Premiere-Pro-CC-2017-1-2-CPU-Comparison-Skylake -X-Kaby-Lake-X-Broadwell-E-Sky…


                    They have also test Ryzen with Photoshop, and found it wanting, so think carefully if you are considering saving some dollars with a cheap Ryzen build for Photoshop.


                    https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CC-2017-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X -Performance-907/

                    • 7. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                      davescm Adobe Community Professional

                      If the Intel only has 3 years life then mine has done well - it was 4 years old, and it does get a hammering here.  When it failed, the base of the water block was very hot to touch. I half expected the processor to have cooked


                      The Corsair is the H55 - single radiator , single fan and a direct fit replacement for the old Intel. I just scraped off the old thermal paste and dropped in the new water block (which already had paste on it). The corsair recommendation was to fit it with the airflow blowing through the radiator and into the case. I did not do that - mine blows out through the radiator. I didn't want the hot radiator air blowing onto the graphics card (which has two fans of it's own).

                      Now it warms the room up nicely when 3D rendering.


                      I'll watch your new build with interest. I am a year or so away from replacing this one (unless the processor expires early)  It still runs well and with 64GB RAM copes with most things I throw at it.



                      • 8. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                        Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                        OK, I am up and running again, albeit with the computer still in the workshop/garage.  Start up temperatures were 18°C and it has not gone above 22°C after sitting at idle for ten minutes.  That's a mite better than the mid 80°s C I was getting with the dead pump on the Intel liquid Cooler. The air cooler is way quieter as well.   Of course nothing is easy — actually Dave's installation did sound trouble free.


                        I think I ordered the wrong Noctua ND14 as it was missing some components.  I had to fit the backplate which meant drilling through the gasket between the CPU mounting plate and the main-board, and drilling out the threads on the proper mounting threaded spacers.  Then fitting the backplate which was forced about 4mm from the board by the CPU mount backplate.  This meant that the long shouldered screws did not protrude enough to use the spacers, but I was able to fit the fan mounts without them.  Then I had to win back that lost 4mm by shortening the springs behind the fan mount.  I tested it all without using any thermal paste and was happy it fitted OK, so put on the paste and put it together for real.


                        To punish me for not following the fan mounting procedure, the computer decided to punish me with the 'Please power down and connect the PCIe power supply'.  Google had lots of hits for this, with people saying how they disconnect the mains lead, turn round three times and spit, but it just need the leads given a bit of a jiggle to make the contacts.  Now I have struggle with the jungle of leads under my desk, and hope that all 15 drives and two printers al play nicely.


                        Nothing new on i9X and X299 recently.  We are into July, so a few more weeks should see the first builds.  I have no idea about a mainboard so far though.

                        • 9. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                          davescm Adobe Community Professional

                          Those temps are cool Trevor, my 3930k has always idled in the low 30s C.



                          • 10. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                            Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                            Yes I am pleased with how well it is controlling the CPU.  Out of interest Dave, do you have a hot core?  My core 5 has always run a bit warmer than the other, and is doing the same with the big Noctua.  I have just tried to get it working, and it didn't go above 37°C, and I am sure that is a lot better than the Intel Liquid cooler did even when new. 


                            I'll try and get it working again.  5000 pixel square. New layer filled with 400% noise. Field Blur.

                            One core boosted to just 3.5Ghz, and core 5 is hottest again at 42°C

                            Noise is a terror on using up space though.  212Gb of scratch space used. This is a 1Tb Samsung EVO SSD, and I think that must have been the bottleneck as all 12 threads show similar activity.  The 70% allocated of the 32Gb RAM is maxed out of course.

                            I had a secondary scratch drive set but no temp files on that.   Fortunately, real life images don't have every adjacent pixel wildly different from the pixel next to it, so much easier on space and resources.  I'm still surprised at the size of the scratch files though for just a 5k pixel square image.   Even accepting that accessing the scratch file was probably the limiting factor here, it seems madness to assign an NVMe drive just for Photoshop scratch space.  X299 boards all have two M.2 sockets, and you can use PCIe sockets for additional drives, and if you use Intel drives and enable VROC, you can raid0 a bunch of M.2 drives and boot from them at 12Gb/s ! 


                            Anyway, I am all behind now having my main computer out of action for several days, so I have to do some of that actual work stuff tomorrow. 

                            • 11. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                              davescm Adobe Community Professional

                              Yes mine runs much hotter - but has done for years so I'm not worried about it.

                              Core 5 is the warmest here also


                              What are you using to measure - I use CPUID HW monitor



                              • 12. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                                JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                I buy cheep refurbish machines stock Dell workstation just air cooled come with three years of service. Never feel the need to look at CPU temp for the machine are put together to run for years as shipped. But because of this thread I thought I take a look at my four year old machine. I downloaded and installed Core Temp 1.8.1.  It shows my temp on mt Logitech G13 game keyboard, windows hidden task-bar icons and has a desktop display. I have no idea if it a good monitor I would thinkit just reads out something the intel maintain about their processors.  Trevor my cores idle are warmer than yours and been the way for years.


                                • 13. Re: My Computer Died :-(
                                  Trevor.Dennis Adobe Community Professional

                                  davescm  wrote


                                  What are you using to measure - I use CPUID HW monitor



                                  Speccy.  It gives a ton of information, and you need separate apps if you going to stress your CPU and monitor at the same time.  This is the Summary page showing an average CPU temperature while stressing the CPU with CPU-Z.  Of course Windows 10 has some great system monitoring applications now.  JJ is good at digging them out, and introduced me to some of the hidden gems.

                                  [EDIT]  I forgot to stop the CPU stress and left it running for half an hour.  Core five still only got to 48°C and my 3930K was slightly better than the 3960K I had selected as reference, but that was with all threads running at 3.5Ghz and the reference at 3.2Ghz.  Clock speed is so often king, and especially so with Photoshop.  Puget Systems has been down on Ryzen because of its lower clock speeds, and that is with Photoshop and Prem Pro.   So unless AMD pull something spectacular out of the bag with Threadripper, I am pretty much sold on i9X and X299.


                                  https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Adobe-Photoshop-CC-2017-AMD-Ryzen-7-1700X-1800X -Performance-907/