17 Replies Latest reply on Aug 8, 2017 4:47 PM by rob day

    Colors not matching

    left bank books Level 1

      Problem: when I pick a color it doesn't actually change to that color.

       

      I'm gathering that this is probably some color space RGB/CMYK problem, though all the post reading I've done hasn't really cleared up what the solution is. What I want, is the real bright green shown here, but what is showing is the duller green that the text actually is.

       

      Screen Shot 2017-08-07 at 10.40.08 AM.png

      This document is going to go to a professional printer that always wants things in CMYK, so I don't want this document to be in RGB. Can I remove the RGB option here?

       

      Screen Shot 2017-08-07 at 10.45.29 AM.png

      Or does something else need to happen so I can have that cool lime green? CS6/Mac

        • 1. Re: Colors not matching
          Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

          That saturated lime green only exists in RGB gamut. If you try to print it (or use it in a CMYK InDesign document) it definitely will always come out duller.

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Colors not matching
            Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

            You could try to change your ID document color mode to RGB (Edit > Transparency Blend Space > RGB) to capture the bright color for onscreen use, but if you send it to the commercial printer, the color will be duller; clipped down in brightness and saturation. Assigning profiles will not help.

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: Colors not matching
              left bank books Level 1

              Interesting. Why is that CMYK, with four colors, seems to get less actual color options than RGB with three?

              • 4. Re: Colors not matching
                Michael Witherell Adobe Community Professional

                Ha! I remember thinking that years ago!

                 

                You need to read "Real World Color Management"

                 

                You will learn a lot!

                • 5. Re: Colors not matching
                  left bank books Level 1

                  I'll look for it! In the meantime, is it possible for me to print that brighter lime green (or at least close to it) instead of that duller green?

                  • 6. Re: Colors not matching
                    left bank books Level 1

                    Like, I presume these folks actually got this neon green, but I just eyedroppered it and it looks super dull in my InDesign? https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374536992

                    • 7. Re: Colors not matching
                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                      I'll look for it! In the meantime, is it possible for me to print that brighter lime green (or at least close to it) instead of that duller green?

                      No, not with process CMYK inks.

                      Like, I presume these folks actually got this neon green, but I just eyedroppered it and it looks super dull in my InDesign?

                      They did not print that green with CMYK inks. If you turn on Overprint Preview in InDesign, you will get a preview of how out-of-gamut RGB colors will convert into your document's assigned CMYK space.

                       

                      You can do the same in Photoshop via Proof Colors. Here's sRGB on the left and its conversion into default document CMYK on the right

                       

                      Screen Shot 2017-08-07 at 4.18.38 PM.png

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Colors not matching
                        JonathanArias Adobe Community Professional

                        There is a course on lynda.com about this subject on adobe indesign:

                        InDesign: Color Management

                         

                        Its great to know this stuff. but it is also great if you are having trouble sleeping.. lol

                        • 9. Re: Colors not matching
                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                          Just to be clear, the book cover you linked to could have been printed with custom spot colors. Spot color printing takes some advanced production knowledge and would likely be more expensive that standard CMYK process printing.

                           

                          Screen Shot 2017-08-07 at 4.54.58 PM.png

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Colors not matching
                            left bank books Level 1

                            Ah interesting. Would I just ask the printer (they're plenty fancy) about printing Pantone colors in addition to CMYK?

                            • 11. Re: Colors not matching
                              rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                              If you don't have a complete grip on RGB vs. CMYK vs. Spot, you will have to collaborate with the printer on the document setup.

                               

                              The cover you linked to would be 4 Pantone spot colors + Black. Your example would probably be CMYK + and extra plate for the yellow/green. In either case the press would have to be capable of printing more than 4 plates.

                               

                              The color you are showing in your first post is pretty neon—I don't think you'll even get it with a Pantone color. You'll have to pick from a swatch book.

                              • 12. Re: Colors not matching
                                left bank books Level 1

                                Will do, thanks!

                                • 13. Re: Colors not matching
                                  Roy Marshall Level 1

                                  I spent many years (about 10 years ago) trying to get to grips with this. I ended up getting a consultant in to explain it all to me and my team.

                                   

                                  Basically RGB works with light (subtracting light makes a darker image), and CMYK with ink (adding ink makes a darker image). The more light you fire at a computer screen the whiter it gets, and the more ink placed on a page, the darker it gets.

                                  Adding CMYK ink will never get the vibrance you can get by mixing light rays. Thats why your computer screen will always be able to show more vivid colours, as well as muting the colours to simulate CMYK ink but still using RGB light.

                                   

                                  One of your questions was as your Printer is professional, you are looking to supply CMYK files. Where as this would have been a safe bet, and needed 15 years ago, modern RIPs (the processing engines attached to Digital Presses, and plate making machines) can accept RGB files. Actually, its better to use RGB as this lets the Printers decide how best to convert to CMYK for their particular press/conditions.

                                   

                                  If you are interested, this web site is by the consultant I hired to train my Pre Press department over 10 years ago!

                                  http://www.missinghorsecons.co.uk/

                                  It really is an interesting subject for those wanting to go deeper!

                                   

                                  Have fun

                                   

                                  Royston

                                  • 14. Re: Colors not matching
                                    Danny Whitehead. Level 4

                                    There's no ink (not even a Pantone Neon) close to that green.

                                     

                                    Incidentally, the image of the 'Eye of The Sixties' book you linked is actually a CMYK image. Some browsers do a 'dumb' conversion of CMYK images to monitor RGB that makes solid process colours look neon, but here's how it looks in Safari, and probably not too far from how it printed:

                                     

                                    Screen Shot 2017-08-08 at 15.18.56.png

                                    • 15. Re: Colors not matching
                                      rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                      Actually, its better to use RGB as this lets the Printers decide how best to convert to CMYK for their particular press/condition

                                      You would want to be careful about assuming a printer would be able to make a better conversion and would even come close to RGB colors that are this far out-of-gamut. As Danny points out there's not even a Pantone (or Toyo) Solid color that comes close to the OP's RGB color.

                                       

                                      This is a downside of the RGB/PDF/X-4 workflow that is currently in favor. Delaying the CMYK conversion to either export or print output would be important for overall color management quality if you don't know the final destination profile or there are multiple destinations, but it wont solve out-of-gamut problems. I think that's why most online printers using automated systems still request or require CMYK—it forces their clients to see the affect of the conversion.

                                      • 16. Re: Colors not matching
                                        Roy Marshall Level 1
                                        I think that's why most online printers using automated systems still request or require CMYK—it forces their clients to see the affect of the conversion.

                                        I see what you mean, but isn't that why we have the "Proof Colors" option in InDesign? to show exactly this issue?

                                        • 17. Re: Colors not matching
                                          rob day Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Right, proof colors would be to a specified destination profile, so it doesn't matter much where the conversion happens. The printer isn't going to have a magic profile that would solve the OP's gamut problem.