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Is it possible to identify/trend no. of unique visitors relying on fallback method(s). We're currently using Adobe's third-party cookie as we need to report on uniques across multiple domains and therefore helpful to measure any impact/change.
If changing your implementation to use MCVID is not an option and you absolutely must stay with friendly 3rd party cookies, everyone who is using Safari is going to be your total impact.
Luckily one of the fallback methods is to use a 1st party cookie on the domain visited, so unique visitors per domain will still remain fairly accurate.
ITP is not necessarily directly correlated with iOS, but rather the safari browser. People browsing via Chrome on Mac won't be affected by ITP, while people browsing via Safari on Windows will.
Are you getting the same trend line by only including people browsing via Safari?
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Yes, I'd based on a significant proportion of our audience using Safari being iOS users.
See below ...
Interestingly increase in Uniques only applies if Safari AND iOS, however more importantly (my previous point) it should have not impacted third party omtrdc.net cookie as it was already being blocked by safari
since the iOS/safari 11 update we have a problem with rising unique visitors on mobile iOS as well. We cannot use first party cookies / MCVID either, since we have to track data from multiple domains. If I understand your "Adobe Analytics and ITP" article correctly, then this problem shouldn't occur at all, since the third party cookies should've already been blocked by safari before. We're using omtrdc.net, too. It sounds like a quite similar scenario as mubarakd5726232's.
The even bigger problem is, that these additional visits/sessions mess up our marketing channels data, since the "new" sessions are recognized as internal visits (HTTP-referrer comes from internal domain on session start).
Is there anything we can do to solve this problem?
seems we're on our own ..
Can you please look to create something similar
segment detail for Bot Review : 1PV/Visit is ..
If you could then duplicate the report but have breakdown by day instead ...
You'll notice a significant proportion in the increase is from new uniques only looking at 1 pv/visit .. ie appears to be an issue with fallback
What I've seen is
1. the weekly uniques increase (with above segments applied) .. is almost 100% .. and with no increase in PVs/Visits
2. the average daily uniques have only increased by 20%
.. so it seems very likely a percentage of users are being seen as uniques on every visit and/or possibly on page view.
If our data is consistent that would confirm an issue at Adobe/Apple end.
I recreated the report on my end but it did not show the same result.
I get "new" Visits/Visitors which do have a referrer and also create more than only one page view each. The problem occurs when a user hops from one domain to the other in our case (can be identified via entry pages). This should be prevented by fallback methods (User Agent + IP) normally, but somehow this doesn't seem to work anymore for iOS 11 users.
Please take a look at the increasing share of Apple users starting in week Sep 25, 2017 running into the Internal URL Filter:
Do you see a similar problem with your internal URL filter maybe?
Samsung also recently introduced 'Tracking Blocker' feature in their new browser, powered by Disconnect. This pretty much sounds like Apple's ITP.
Some Analytics customers reportedly experienced tracking issues where it blocks analytics scripts from loading and as a result it's unable to collect behaviour data.
Are we aware of this as well as Apple's ITP? What would be the impact of this in analytics data?
Thank you in advance!
I've been looking into this further ... the table below shows a substantial increase in uniques and which relates to 'new visits' where visit count is 1.
I was then able to cross reference this with a logged in user ...
The above shows the user doing similar no. of PVs in Oct and Nov vs Sept BUT the uniques increase significantly.
The following shows 2 uniques, 2 visits and 7 PVs were recorded for the user between 10-11
Which then broken down by minute shows a new visit was recorded after the first page view
The above should not be happening as we're using adobe's third party cookie domain which should mean the fallback method is used where a first party cookie is dropped instead.
Thanks for the heads up Brandon! After reading the article, it looks like all of the following have to be met:
- The visitor is using a Samsung Android device
- They are browsing via the Samsung browser, and not Chrome
- They have explicitly enabled Tracking Blocker or have entered Secret Mode
I anticipate that it won't have as large an effect, since Samsung browser market share is significantly less than Safari. However, I will certainly bring it up with the team to make sure they're aware of it.
Brandon thanks for highlighting, I was able to download on my non-samsung android device and verify ..
Tracking blocker not enabled by default, however when enabled it was blocking our Adobe Analytics request.
Thank you for verifying.
Did you also find out what cookies do or don't get blocked?
Hi everyone! Are there any new insights on this topic?
From what i understand in the thread and the ITP article:
1) Adobe Analytics should not be impacted if it has a 1st party cookie on the domain (this is dependent upon the set up as outlined in the original link)
2) All other Adobe tools inc Advertising will be impacted as they are not using the same first party cookie as Analytics. i.e. we will not be able to target Safari 11 users, only measure them. Or is there a way for Adobe to take the Analytics 1st party cookies to feed Advertising for example?
It would be great to get confirmation as there's some conflicting messages around.
I've been investigating this further and can state categorically 'we' do have an issue. I've an ongoing ticket and have also asked to be escalated internally. For reference 'we' are using H.25.3 and third party cookie omtrdc.net
In addition to shared insights I've verified by ..
1. Tracking a logged in users' hits/uniques - new visitor mid visit.
2. Comparing to Google Analytics.
I would suggest running the following report to see if your affected by this too. If uniuqes are being inflated then you'll see PV/Visitor decrease overtime specifically for iOS as more users upgrade to iOS11 upwards
Our overall uniques figure is being inflated by upto 25% (December). So this is significant (for us atleast)
Visits are breaking mid session and thus inflating Visitors and Visits metric. As this is happening mid session and the cookies being seen as new .. you should see the inflation if you trend visitors/vists over time and apply the filter apple devices, no referrer and visit no = 1
We were running on older H.code and therefore recommendation was to move over to Appmeasurement library and/or moving to first party cookies. Moving to first party cookies is currently not a viable option therefore we updated to AppMeasurement last week, unfortunately this does not appear to have resolved the issue.
The visitor inflation is affecting our overall monthly uniques by ~16% (in Jan and rising)
This obviously impact other measurements too .. eg PVs/Visitor
Will post here if I have any further updates, but would help if other customers were measuring and reporting this.
Thanks for your update.
Just wanna know if any customers here have fixed the problem by moving to first part cookies....
I'm using 1st Party Cookies with MKID and I don't see similar behavior.
Hope that helps.
Update : Please note Adobe has recently changed it's advice and updated the original article
ITP is inconsistent with Adobe's 3rd-party cookies. Occasionally, cookies are accepted but are frequently removed, even mid-visit.
There's no timelines on a work around solution and therefore my suggestion would be for Adobe customers to move over to 1st party cookies
Yeah we noticed the change on the the article too....
So would you move over to 1st party cookies?
It would be great if someone here can share us a case that moving to 1st party cookies solved their problem.
Coz we need some proof for our management to have confidence that this solution can fix the problem.
Since not many other Adobe users reported the similar issue. We are wondering if this affect more on the high visit frequency sites.
We observed our visit freq.(Visit/Unique Visitor) on iOS 10 or below is 4 and iOS 11 is 2.
How is the visit freq. pattern on your site?
see below ..
Late Friday evening I moved over one of our sites to using Experience Cloud ID Service. For those that aren't aware this whilst dropping a first party cookie also drops a third party demdex cookie and thus allows for cross site de-duplication of visitors (if browser accepts a third party cookie). Based on 2 days worth of data, the results are very encouraging with various metrics showing improvements (and hopefully corrections) in line with issue of cookies being deleted mid visit.
1. No. of Visitors with no referrer has dropped significantly
2. Page Views per visitor has increased
On this basis I plan to roll this out across all our sites.... Not sure why Adobe is not recommending this to customers still using third party cookies.
I'd summarise 'our' steps as follows. Your may differ depending on your implementation.
1. Requirements for the Experience Cloud ID Service
2. If you're updating to AppMeasurement code from H code, check/update your plugins code as some are incompatible or will need updating. AppMeasurement Plug-in Support
Hope that helps.
I believe the Marketing Cloud ID Service is only a good solution for non-cross-domain tracking. Since the service creates a different first party cookie on all your domains, you will not be able to track a users across the domains. As you stated correctly you do have the demdex-cookie for cross domain purposes but only if third party cookies are not blocked. Since Safari browser block these cookies by default for example, you will have a high number of "broken" sessions (those will be shown as internal traffic). So I believe you're testing the service on a website accessible under only one domain?
1. Whilst Marketing Cloud ID Service uses first party cookies it also uses the demdex third party cookie to identify 'visitors' across multiple domains, that of course if the demdex cookie is accepted. ie. if cookie exists it'll use that to identify the visitor and then use this for the first party cookie. So whilst individual first party cookies will be created across the different domains, where the demdex cookie exists or accepted (for your Marketing Cloud ID) the visitor(s) will be tracked across domains .. pretty much the same as what would have been occurring with Adobe's first party fallback option previously.
NOTE. only relies on demdex cookie if AMVC first party cookie does not exist.
2. With ITP and the issue we've noted, Safari appears to be accepting third party cookies but then deleting mid visit, hence the issue was unexpected from Adobe's perspective.
Hi mubarakd57262327 ,
you're perfectly right, the AMCV cookie will hold an existing demdex/s_vi cookie if present. This value can be seen in the network calls as "aid" and will then get precedence over "mid". In our experience we've made many months/years ago, the reliability of this "fallback" was too low and we got lots of internal sessions messing up with our marketing channels data. It seemed that simply too many browsers were not allowing third party cookies and so the Marketing Cloud ID Service was noch good choice for our cross domain websites.
We may be talking about two separate but related issues ...
1. Issue caused by ITP where s_vi third party cookies being accepted, but deleted mid session, inflating the visitors and visits metrics. Granted we've only implemented on a single domain, however the issue does appear to have been resolved by implementing Marketing Cloud ID service.
2. Cross domain tracking, I'll be able to verify once we roll out Marketing Cloud Service Id across all our domains, however based on what I've read/seen cross domain tracking should be better but certainly no worse than previous.
For the time being our biggest issue is the first, which i'm hopeful moving over to Marketing Cloud Service Id will resolve.
Yes, those two topics are related but not the same
Regarding to your second point:
From our experience the cross domain tracking with MCIDs does not work very reliably due to the high number of browsers blocking third party cookies. I believe this is why Adobe provided the helper function for appending the MCID on external/cross domain links: How to set Marketing Cloud ID Service helper function in Adobe DTM
The ITP issue may be resolved by the MCID Service. On websites where we use the MCID Service we have a lot less trouble with marketing channels and mobile device sessions in general.
Hey everyone, we've made some major revisions to the ITP KB article: Adobe Analytics and ITP
The single-best thing you can do for your implementation is to use the Experience Cloud ID service, or set up 1st-party cookies. DTM/Launch makes setting up the visitorID service super simple - I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
Another helpful thing to note (that I haven't included in the KB article yet) is that on March 15, Adobe will stop issuing 3rd-party cookies to Safari browsers. Instead, visitors are identified using fallback methods. These changes allow Adobe to handle Safari 11 users in a manner consistent with earlier versions of the browser. This is advantageous because it stops ITP from nuking a cookie mid-visit. It does not require any implementation changes, as the cookie is prevented from being set on Adobe's end.
Hi Gigazelle, ,
For the change about Adobe will stop issuing 3rd-party cookies to Safari browsers. Is that it apply to all Adobe Analytics users no matter using what kind of implementation method (e.g. legacy ID)?
And how long can the cookie be keep if the visitors is identified by fallback method?
Correct, it will apply to all Analytics users regardless of the implementation method.
Since the fallback method uses a first party cookie, it shouldn't be affected by ITP.
Hi, is this change still happening today? When should we expect to see this take effect? Thanks!
Just chatted with product management, and they said it's been postponed to next week. More details forthcoming!
Thanks for the update! Are we still on track for this Thursday? My company is determining if we should anticipate this change happening soon or if we should start prioritizing implementing the experience cloud ID service.
The change should go out this week.
We found from Experience Cloud Release Notes that Adobe has rolled out the fix on stopped issuing 3rd-party s_vi cookies for the Safari browser on Mar 20.
And seems the % of s_vi cookies from our raw data has goes down a lot. We would keep monitor on this.
Can anyone share if their s_vi cookies on Safari browsers go down too after the fix rolled out?
Since this change went in my Safari visits has massively inflated - does anyone know why and how I can resolve?