1 2 3 4 Previous Next 139 Replies Latest reply on Nov 21, 2017 2:49 AM by yupy94885985 Branched to a new discussion.

    Dimension Won't Open

    Dominic Witherow Level 1

      Everything else works well on my system, but Dimension just won't open. The menu bar flashes up for a second, then all sign of the application vanishes. My computer specs are more than adequate, according to Adobe. Any ideas?

       

      System details:

       

      MacPro 5,1 6 core 3.33GHz

      GTX 680 Mac edition 2GB RAM

      48GB RAM

      480GB SSD system disc (OWC 6G)

      OSX 10.10.5

      Latest CC updates

       

      Thanks for any help!

       

      Dominic

        • 1. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
          lriz Level 1

          Nope. A second passes and 'Dimension CC quit unexpectedly' dialog comes up. It doesn't even get as far as the menu bar.

           

          System:

           

          iMac 2.66 GHz Intel Core i5

          16 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

          ATI Radeon HD 4850 512 MB

          500GB SSD (209GB Free)

          OSX 10.11.6

          Latest CC Updates

          • 2. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
            parthvyas22111 Adobe Employee

            Hi

             

            Thank you for posting the query.

             

            I would request your to please post a screenshot of the crash report and graphic card of system.

            Also look for the DImensionGPUProfiler.log and Dimension.log under ~/Library/Logs/Adobe.

             

            Regards

            Parth Vyas

            • 3. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
              crazedweazel Level 1

              Parth,

              I've got the same issue.

              Crash Report is several pages long.

              ~/Library/Logs/Adobe contains none of those logs.

               

              System spec-

              Model: MacPro5,1, BootROM MP51.007F.B03, 12 processors, 6-Core Intel Xeon, 2.93 GHz, 64 GB, SMC 1.39f11

              Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980, PCIe, 4096 MB

               

              Any help is appreciated. App looks useful as described.

               

              Cheers!

              Matt

              • 4. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                sadiez4577143 Level 1

                Hi Parth Vyas,

                 

                I too have the same issue,

                 

                My system specs are as follows.

                iMac 3.2 GHz Intel Core i3

                16 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

                ATI Radeon HD 5670 512 MB

                1TB HD (602GB free)

                OSX 10.11.6

                Latest CC Updates

                 

                More about my graphics card:

                 

                Chipset Model: ATI Radeon HD 5670

                  Type: GPU

                  Bus: PCIe

                  PCIe Lane Width: x16

                  VRAM (Total): 512 MB

                  Vendor: ATI (0x1002)

                  Device ID: 0x68c0

                  Revision ID: 0x0000

                  ROM Revision: 113-B9850K-133

                  EFI Driver Version: 01.00.416

                 

                As far as the log file, it looks as though no log was created.

                 

                My error was as follows.

                 

                Dimension Error - Pastebin.com

                Sorry there was a lot of text.

                 

                I will also mention that I had a similar problem when dimension was called felix. At that time I couldnt get passed the splash page. Eventually this was solved for project Felix, but seems to not work now.

                 

                Alex

                • 5. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                  johnd59898678 Level 1

                  Same issue here. It launches fine on my MacBook Pro 2015 running Sierra, but on my MacPro 2012 running El Capitan it crashes on every launch. Tried Uninstalling and reinstalling - same thing.

                   

                  ---

                   

                  Edited by Moderator:  Please do not copy/paste log conents to forums and instead send files as a shared link. CC Files, Dropbox, Google Drive, and Box are all examples of file sharing services.

                  • 6. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                    parthvyas22111 Adobe Employee

                    Hi All,

                     

                    We have a confirmation about crash which is due to old CPU that doesn't support a particular extension resulting in the app not starting or starting and crashing when creating a new document.

                     

                    We apologize for the inconvenience.

                     

                    Regards

                    Parth Vyas

                    1 person found this helpful
                    • 7. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                      ericsoup Level 1

                      You guys should update the minimum system requirements to reflect this limitation.  I have a 2009 8core Xeon, and it also won't launch.  Bummer.

                      1 person found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                        johnd59898678 Level 1

                        So is a fix in the works or are we just out of luck? I purchased my 2012 Mac Pro NEW in late 2013. Are you suggesting that I have to buy a new computer every 3-4 years to run Adobe Software?

                        2 people found this helpful
                        • 9. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                          benc64323429 Level 1

                          ... "and we're working on a patch to fix this." Right?

                          1 person found this helpful
                          • 10. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                            Mario Arizmendi Level 3

                            Yeah, good point... not aceptable

                            1 person found this helpful
                            • 11. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                              JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                              Hi all!  While most Adobe software has fairly low system requirements, Dimension is a 3D application that takes advantage of some of the most powerful rendering technologies available.  As such we do have higher system requirements than most applications.  While we'll continue to work on making our application more accessible on more devices, we will not be able to support these with a patch.  It is a limitation of using technology that is newer than the hardware.

                               

                              However, we will work on better messaging and preventing the app from crashing and at least exiting with an informative message.

                              • 12. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                tomottoe Level 1

                                Well, Adobe may find that a reasonable position, but I run Cinema 4D on my Mac Pro 5,1 with no issues and it's certainly as state of the art as Dimensions.

                                1 person found this helpful
                                • 13. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                  johnd59898678 Level 1

                                  Same here - I run several far more 3D Rendering Intensive programs from years past with no problems. In fact Dimension is the only App I have installed in over 10 years that will not run on my 2012 MacPro Tower!

                                  1 person found this helpful
                                  • 14. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                    JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                    Yeah, very true!  Cinema 4D, Max, Maya, etc, have been out for a long time and have a ton of support built up.  We are starting fresh here with the latest and greatest.  Those apps are certainly more robust with toolsets, but our underlaying tech. has some new stuff and we'll be building up from there.  As I mentioned, we'll be doing what we can to improve support for everyone, but this is a core technology choice we made, to start with something that is modern and powerful we can move forward with rather than try to support machines that are 7-4 years old.

                                     

                                    If you're on a newer machine (2014+) you should be okay!  If you're crashing on that, it might be a different problem, so please do send in your logs via file transfer.

                                    • 15. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                      sadiez4577143 Level 1

                                      I understand that this is the way things are being designed, but that answer kinda sucks for a good portion of us. On top of that I can currently run, Maya, Sketchup, and Blender with no issue what so ever, and do so during a normal week. I was excited to take my workflow through Dimension, but know that I won't be able to due my processor really makes me disappointed.

                                      • 16. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                        johnd59898678 Level 1

                                        So, Adobe has forced everyone into a subscription-only service that will only support 4 year old systems moving forward... why am I not surprised! 

                                        1 person found this helpful
                                        • 17. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                          JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                          Yeah, it's a hard decision to make, cut users out, or use the latest technology.  It sucks, but it's also me trying to be open and honest about what we're building.  Something for the future, that will take us through the next 20 years of design transitioning into 3D, VR, AR, and beyond.

                                           

                                          Thanks again for the feedback, and we'll continue to do our best to be as inclusive as possible while balancing our vision for what we are building!

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                            Mario Arizmendi Level 3

                                            Jeanette

                                            I really understand your point and I apreciate that someone from adobe team take the time to give us an explanation, thanks for that

                                            If you dont say this, imagine we all going crazy trying to find a solution where there is no solution (just buying a new Mac)

                                            • 19. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                              JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                              I'm super active in the community.  I'm one of the product managers for Dimension and can't manage a product without talking to you.  . Please feel free to always ask, question, get excited, angry, whatever you need.  I'm here to listen to you.  We tried to put messages in for system requirements so you wouldn't have a weird, unknown crash, but we missed this one.  We'll definitely get a message in as soon as possible.

                                              1 person found this helpful
                                              • 20. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                johnd59898678 Level 1

                                                I agree. I truly appreciate the honest and prompt response.

                                                 

                                                However, this stance has now attempted to turn a subscription-only software service into a disposable hardware solution as well. Purchasing a new $8,000 Apple Tower like I did in 2013 is now going to be made obsolete by software updates? This is new. I have owned tens-of-thousands of dollars in Apple computers and Adobe applications since 1989. The only time I ever had to buy a new computer in the past, was to speed things up. Never had to buy a new computer because newly released software would not run on it - 4 years is not that long! Looks like I would need to just budget a few thousand dollars a year from now on moving forward and pray I never have a bad year or everything just stops running. I have other apps to run besides just Adobe.

                                                 

                                                Fortunately, I can live without what Dimension offers. As far as being built on the "latest and greatest", I have a wall full of 3D Software application boxes from the past that promised the same thing and turned out to be boat anchors after 2-3 years and several of them did a beautiful job before they vanished. If I cannot get something to run on a less than 4 year old Apple Mac Pro, then I certainly would not bet it running on something 20 years into the future!

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                  crazedweazel Level 1

                                                  Please change the minimum system requirements listed for Dimension. My system is substantially stronger than your "recommended" list (GeForce GTX 980 etc) save for an "old" 12 core CPU and there's no real indication your software simply won't run.

                                                  • 22. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                    lamateur2design Level 1

                                                    Wow!

                                                    So a dual 6-core xeon @ 3.4GHz with 96GB of RAM and AMD RX580 8GB does not fulfil your system requirements for Dimensions? Maybe you should have a talk with your engineers...

                                                    I now believe that your subscription model is inherently noxious to proper development. If you had to sell this app on its own merit I bet it would run on my hardware right now.

                                                    I do hope there might be a rethink here, if not I'm afraid you've lost me on this one.

                                                    I wish you good luck with this decision and its impact.

                                                    • 23. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                      joeyqt Level 1

                                                      Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6500U CPU @ 2.50GHz released in the 3rd Quarter of 2015 is now classed as and old CPU?

                                                       

                                                      The program opens up splash screen, UI displays then closes down saying system hardware is incompatible. As others have said, I run any other 3D program without issue and Felix was perfectly fine... is this a compatibility issue or has their been a flaw in the release?

                                                       

                                                      Thanks for taking the time to reply to people.

                                                       

                                                      EDIT: This wasn't a reply to you Dominic, just adding to the list of CPUs having issues*

                                                      • 24. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                        sammytex Level 1

                                                        Jeannette,

                                                        Thank you for at least providing us with an honest answer.  It was certainly frustrating to try and launch the app with a machine that meets all of the specs you have posted, just to have it crash with no explanation. 

                                                         

                                                        Like the others, I echo the message that it doesn't make a lot of sense to obsolete a large segment of users because of desire to include 'new stuff.'  Many small, independents simply can't afford to turn over their machines every 3 years.  This is even more relevant in the education community; whether a teacher or a school district, it will be very challenging to have to constantly upgrade to high-end machines so frequently, especially when also trying to ensure that students are able to access the latest software tools like Dimension.

                                                        Given your long-time collaboration with Apple,maybe you could consider building your products so that your compatibility framework would match Apple's product lifecycle.

                                                         

                                                        Hopefully, your team can rethink this and fix this issue. If you can create the amazing magic contained in Dimension, surely you can work that magic on the software so that you don't leave so many of us behind.

                                                         

                                                        Although disappointed, I certainly understand the business decision, but in the end, you are certainly right, "it sucks."

                                                        • 25. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                          JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                                          Not necessarily!  Could be for a different  (potentially fixable) cause.  Generally this specific crash is for cards from 2012 or earlier.  If your machine is newer than that please send your crash logs via file transfer and we will take a look!  I am at Adobe MAX conference right now so apologies for response time.

                                                          • 26. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                            jlclark3adobe Level 1

                                                            I know that my hardware is very wimpy compared to my peers (Or should I say my hardware superiors? I am not worthy! ). But I was a bit confused by the message stating that my hardware was not sufficient to run Dimensions CC. Honestly, I did not review the minimum requirements and just installed the new software, excited to test it out. That's my fault for being ignorant. I've just never had this problem with an Adobe product.

                                                             

                                                            Like other users here, I have run Blender, Maya, and other packages on my light-weight system with some slowdown/lag due to a meager amount of RAM and a 3 year old i7 processor. I have realistic expectations of my limited/aging hardware and do not expect it to be a beast. My system runs the rest of Creative Cloud like a champ. My previous machine, an 8 year old HP laptop with worse specs, runs Creative Cloud fairly well when it is needed.

                                                             

                                                            I know that 3D modeling and rendering offers challenges to a system that are different than Photoshop or Illustrator. 3D software just needs more memory, fatter pipelines for rendering, etc. I also understand the point that the team cannot be expected to make cutting-edge software run on older hardware.

                                                             

                                                            My Specs (please don't laugh):

                                                             

                                                            1st Generation Cintiq Companion

                                                            OS Edition: Windows 10 Home

                                                            Version: 1703

                                                            OS Build: 15063.674

                                                            Processor: Intel Core i7-3517U @ 1.90 GHz 2.40 GHz

                                                            Hard Disk: 250 GB SSD (Toshiba)

                                                            Ram: 8.00

                                                            System Type: 64 BIt OS, x64 based architecture

                                                            Video Card: Intel HD Graphics 4000 with 1792 MB Graphics Memory (this probably makes my system unable to run Dimensions CC)

                                                             

                                                            If my betters with high-end Macs are having difficulty, I can only assume that my paltry Cintiq with Windows is nothing but a sad joke. I'm sure my specs are not up to the task but I had a strange compatibility problem with Adobe XD when it was released for Windows. Turns out that I had software to run virtuallized OSes on my system and XD absolutely did not like that. It wouldn't even show up in my Creative Cloud application until I removed the offending software. After that, it appeared, installed, and ran like a dream.

                                                             

                                                            Are my specs just atrocious? Or could there be hope?

                                                            • 27. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                              JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                                              Everything looks okay except for the GPU (as you pointed out).  It's a 2012 card so falls right on the edge of things that might have the right instruction set our app requires, or might not.  Sometimes updated drivers can improve that compatibility, but we don't have a full list of supported/unsupported cards at this time.  Something we will work on!

                                                              • 28. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                Dominic Witherow Level 1

                                                                Hi Jeanette, OP here.

                                                                 

                                                                Thank you very much for your forthright explanation and engagement. Could you just clarify where the primary issue with older hardware lies? Your colleague Parth suggested it is a CPU issue, but your latest comments seem to point to a GPU issue. If it's the latter, then swapping out graphics cards for more recent versions might be worthwhile, however CPU issues are less easily resolved.

                                                                 

                                                                The difference of a letter can have a significant financial impact too!

                                                                 

                                                                As I'm facing a significant system overhaul due to CC moving beyond OS X 10.10 now also, this is a very important point for me.

                                                                 

                                                                Thanks for your help.

                                                                 

                                                                Kind regards,

                                                                Dominic

                                                                • 29. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                  joeyqt Level 1

                                                                  Thanks for getting back to everyone.

                                                                   

                                                                  Without having a list of compatible graphics cards it would be hard to point to GPUs as a cause, especially regarding laptops (or is adobe saying dimension is basically never going to work on laptops?). To have had Felix working only to remove what enabled it to work seems a very strange decision and a big slap in the face to everyone who has funded the development with subscriptions (including the price hike of 11% here in the UK earlier this year).

                                                                   

                                                                  Is this now a shift towards offering tiered style pricing plans where subscriptions are based on computer specs? ie if your hardware is below a certain spec you get a discount (or higher subscription price for companies with the latest spec hardware... something they should be very cautious of).

                                                                   

                                                                  This issue wouldn't be so bad if:

                                                                   

                                                                  1 - Felix/Dimension was a 3D animation tool (at least then the hardware intensiveness would be expected to be much higher)

                                                                  2 - Felix didn't work in beta mode without top of the range spec hardware (it did... so how has the release version of a Beta ended up unable to work on all the machines running the Beta?)

                                                                  3 - Cinema 4Ds integration with Ae wasn't as good as it is and the new maxon Ai plugin being so fluid. While yes adobe is trying something a bit different with Dimension, it is nowhere near as capable as C4D, and C4D + V-Ray works fine, which as I understand is the underlying rendering tech used in Felix... was that changed to something else?

                                                                   

                                                                  And most of all:

                                                                   

                                                                  4: Felix was still available to use for those having issues with Dimension (and if the decision on making Dimension unusable for specs older than 2 years is final, at least leaving the last version of Felix available for all with a subscription plan so they can still use that after paying for it's development).

                                                                   

                                                                  Events logs can be found here: Adobe Dimension - Log - Google Drive

                                                                   

                                                                  *EDIT: Side note - the app comes up with a system requirements error and upon closing, it remains open in the background (unable to launch again) and requires closing in the Task Manager, their are 3 instances of Dimension to close in the Background Processes.

                                                                   

                                                                  While this is a Laptop, and therefore the graphics card is integrated (Intel HD Graphics 520 with the latest driver installed) it meets the minimum requirements:

                                                                   

                                                                  Windows 10 64

                                                                  Intel® Core™ i7-6500U Processor - Dual-core - 2.5 GHz / 3.1 GHz (Turbo Boost) - 4 MB cache

                                                                  (RAM)8 GB DDR3L

                                                                  512 GB SSD

                                                                  2560 x 1440

                                                                   

                                                                  Hopefully whatever this problem is can and will be sorted, especially once Max 2017 finishes and the need for a big show presentation is out the way.

                                                                   

                                                                  PS: I sound moany in this, it isn't meant to be at all, just a frustration so here's a smiley face for a happy Friday ahead.....

                                                                  • 30. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                    AZInsight Level 1

                                                                    Adobe Cloud site tells me that my machine does not meet minimum requirements for Dimensions CC?????? What else could I possibly need????

                                                                     

                                                                    This is what I am running:

                                                                     

                                                                    ASUS Maximus IX Hero

                                                                    Windows 10 Pro 64bit (10.0.14393 Build 14393)

                                                                    Intel i7-7700 OC-4500MHz

                                                                    64GB Ram

                                                                    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 8GB

                                                                    25TB of storage (2-2TB Samsung SSDs)

                                                                     

                                                                    DOES NOT MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS?????

                                                                    • 31. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                      PixelSamurai Level 1

                                                                      Win10 user here with a failure to launch as well.

                                                                       

                                                                      Can you list the specific CPU function that is required that's missing from old processors?  My laptop is an i7 that's only 3 years old.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                        parthvyas22111 Adobe Employee

                                                                        Hi PixelSamurai AZInsight joeyqt

                                                                         

                                                                        As mentioned in above post by Jeanette, on Win machines, it could be due to different reason. we request you to please send us the Dimension logs from C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\Adobe\Dimension\ which can help in finding out the cause for crash.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                          creativecloudmember2012 Level 1

                                                                          My Dimension CC app is not opening either, I run a 2009 MacPro, OSX10.10.5 yosemite, 2.66GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 16GB ram, Nvidia GeForce GT 120 512MB, error code on launch, my error coding is attached. Help!!!

                                                                           

                                                                          ---

                                                                           

                                                                          Edited by Moderator:  Please do not copy the content of long files into the chat.  Include files as a link to a shared document using CC Files, Google Drive, Dropbox, or another file transfer service.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                            PixelSamurai Level 1

                                                                            Thanks for the quick response.

                                                                             

                                                                            Unfortunately I have no log files (or even a Dimension folder) in the location noted in your reply.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                              Manu WorldPeace Level 1

                                                                              Same issue since I upgraded in Beta Testing:

                                                                              Dimension_1.0.0-20170923.r.662-89b35de-ESD.dmg

                                                                              • 36. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                                JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                                                                Haha, not moany at all.  It's an important discussion!

                                                                                 

                                                                                There are no plans to make tiered subscriptions for different hardware requirements based on software or anything.  I do think perhaps Adobe should standardize on how many years back new products should support hardware (and I will bring this up with higher levels to start a discussion).  Without a hard and fast rule though, it's largely decided by the technology that's being built.

                                                                                 

                                                                                To be clear, we don't have a hard line on years, so apologies if it sounded like that.  I've seen computers from 2011/2012 run Dimension fine.  It depends on the specific hardware and whether it has the instruction set we need (there's a specific limitation that's causing most of these crashes in what's called AVX support).  I just meant generally speaking 2014+ is guaranteed safe.

                                                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                                                • 37. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                                  JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                                                                  Apologies, yes, that was a typo on my part.  I am responding at the Adobe MAX conference between labs, dinners, and booth duty, so sincere apologies!

                                                                                   

                                                                                  This is a CPU issue with the instruction set.  It is not an easy issue for us to work around either, but we are doing our best to look into it.  I just don't want to get anyones hopes up and certainly can't promise a patch right now.  We're investigating and will continue to do our best to be as inclusive as possible.

                                                                                  1 person found this helpful
                                                                                  • 38. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                                    JeanetteMathews Adobe Employee (Admin)

                                                                                    Slight branch here, but I've found this conversation really fascinating and interesting.  In my opinion Adobe should have a minimum or maximum number of years that a 1.0 new program should provide support for machines older than the new program.  It's certainly not realistic to have customers update every time we launch a new app.  I also don't think it's realistic for Adobe to support a decade worth of machines at a new release.  It takes a lot of time away from features trying to support the infinite combination of hardware out there.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    But from you guys, how would you define what's okay from a customer perspective?  3 years?  5 years?  10 years?  How many years back should we support hardware for brand new program releases?  Or, would you be willing to give up features for support.  For example, we could probably make Dimension run on just about anything (even an ipad) if we didn't include rendering, but I don't think that'd be useful.  Curious what your thoughts are.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Has anyone managed to get Dimension to actually open?
                                                                                      AZInsight Level 1

                                                                                      Hi All,

                                                                                      I solved the issue of not seeing / not being being able to download and open Dimension (at least for my system - see system details above) by creating a different user account (Windows 10 Pro 64bit - latest, build 1709). Opening Adobe CC in the new user account, I was able to see Dimension as an option in Adobe CC, download it and install it / run it in without issue in the newly created user account. Then when I signed out of the new user account and signed back into my regular user account, there it was; and it worked in my regular user account without issue. Not sure if this helps anyone; however, for me it seems to rule out CPU coding as an issue, at least in my case. I hope this is of some help to others.

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