37 Replies Latest reply on Nov 2, 2017 1:23 PM by holderone

    Complaint about new LR upgrade releases

    nbirkett51 Level 1

      I do not understand what Adobe is doing witt Lightroom.  Today, they released a new product (the cloud-based version of LR) and updates to the current version of LR.  So what do they do?

       

      They give the new product the name of the old product.  And give a new name to the old product.

       

      As a result, no-one knows what programme is being discussed when we talk about 'Lightroom CC'.

       

      The new CC is a crippled piece of software which seems to have a limited function. I, along with many other users, have no interest in having all of my photos placed in the cloud.  This reduces security and increases the risk of privacy violations.  If I take 1,000 new photos (40-80GB), it will take up to 20 hours of continuous use of my Internet upload stream to get them to the cloud.  And, many of those photos will be throw-aways that have no need to be on the cloud.  That wastes my bandwidth and, in many cases, could lead to users being forced to pay for additional bandwidth.  And, the functionality offered by the new CC are also very limited compared to the previous CC.

       

      Because of the bizzare naming convention, many people will upgrade to the new CC without realizing that are are getting a new software package with limits.  This is confusing to users.

       

      The name switch also leaves the impression for new users that the 'Classic' is 'old stuff' which is less powerful and useful than the new CC (which is far from the truth).  It also leaves the impression that it may not continue to be supported by Adobe (despite the comments today that it will be develop in parallel).  How long before the Classic version gets dropped from the line-up?

       

      I will be looking closely at alternatives such as Capture One and DxO Optics Pro.

       

      At a minimum, Adobe should have retained the name 'Lightroom CC' for the update of the current product and named the new one something like 'Lightroom web' or 'Lightroom Lite'.

       

      I urge Adobe to look closely at the confusion this is causing.  And, at the anger I am seeing in users who object strongly to the new CC's cloud-based model.

        • 1. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
          DdeGannes Adobe Community Professional

          See if this article clears the fuzz.

          The Future of Lightroom

          1 person found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
            baz.stott@btinternet.com

            I absolutely agree with you. I have just made the mistake of purchasing Lightroom 6 having been told by Zane on the help desk that after updating to version 6.12 it would be able to read the .arw RAW files from my Sony camera.

             

            IT CAN'T

             

            Not only that but the update process actually deleted the installation of Lightroom and I had to start all over again.

             

            SNAFU!

            • 3. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
              nbirkett51 Level 1

              I've seen and read that article.  Personally, I am also clear of the 'fuzz'.

               

              My point is that Adobe's new model will be causing confusion for the large number of users who don't care enough to come to forums like this or read up on detailed web pages explaining software releases.

               

              Lightroom CC should have continued with that name. The name should not have been switched to a new and inferior product which also forces cloud uploading.  New users and others will be confused by this.  I almost have to wonder if the renaming was a deliberate ploy by Adobe to force accidental enrollment in their new product to make user numbers look good (I must be wrong, right:))

              • 4. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                David_Illig Level 1

                Knee-jerk reaction. You'll become accustomed to the naming and you'll forget you ever complained about it. And that is the truth.

                • 5. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                  nbirkett51 Level 1

                  Nah - not knee-jerk.  Rather, a reaction to a future that I don't want to see.

                   

                  Classic will be gone. Adobe will take the paternalistic view that they know best about what should be in the cloud, denying us our right to make those decisions.  We will all be forced to the new version, losing the ability to maintain local copies of our photos as our primary source material.  Cost will go up: I can buy a 4TB drive for use on my local computer for about $150, a one time purchase.  I believe that Adobe is charging $9.99/month for 1 TB of extra cloud storage (the dollar amount may be wrong but it is a monthly cost). If my cost is right, then the extra 3TB I would need to store 4TB of photos will cost me $360 per year.

                   

                  I prepared to pay a monthly fee for the software.  But, I would object to being forced to pay high monthly fees to store my photos in a medium that I don't want to use when I could store them locally.

                   

                  This ain't a knee-jerk reaction.

                  • 6. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                    John Waller Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                    updating to version 6.12 it would be able to read the .arw RAW files from my Sony camera.

                    Which model Sony camera exactly?

                     

                    There's no mystery to which version supports which camera. Supported cameras are listed here:

                    Cameras supported by Camera Raw

                    • 7. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                      Indyboosler Level 1

                      As someone who uses Lightroom on an iMac and MacBook Pro - the ability to have both machines read the same catalogue is long overdue. That said, as the OP noted, the new version is crippled and it looks like for now I have to use BOTH versions. Case in point, no more publish actions. Sure you can upload to facebook and what not. But I run a website and I have publish actions set up to save photos to a specific size and place on my computer.  LR REALLY needs to bring back the folder structure. It's a start, but it has a LONG way to go. Overall on a scale of 1-10: 3

                      • 8. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                        David_Illig Level 1

                        Classic will be gone. Adobe will take the paternalistic view that they know best about what should be in the cloud, denying us our right to make those decisions.  We will all be forced to the new version, losing the ability to maintain local copies of our photos as our primary source material...This ain't a knee-jerk reaction.

                         

                        But it is idle speculation. Do you also suppose that Adobe will come into our homes and offices and seize our hard drives?

                         

                        I will tell you this, however. It's not just Adobe. Cloud computing is the wave of the future. The cost of remote storage will decrease, not increase. I feel for those in rural areas who lack high-speed Internet, but they have to take that up with local and state regulators—force the providers to service rural areas with fiber or other high-speed wires as the cost of doing business in the cities.

                        • 9. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                          baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                          Hi John,

                           

                          The camera in question is Sony's new RX10M4. It is listed in the 'supported cameras' list but Lightroom v6.12 will not read them.

                          • 10. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                            99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                            Your new camera will be supported on 26 October when  Lr6.13 is released.

                            • 11. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                              baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                              Oh really? Am I supposed to believe that?

                               

                              I was told by JeffreyOD and 'Zane' at the help desk that version 6.12 would do it and the camera is listed in the 'supported cameras' section.

                               

                              Jeffrey OD is shown as STAFF, Zane is an employee at least, why are they wrong and you right? Forgive my bluntness but I'm a bit 'T'd' off with Adobe at present.

                              • 12. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                                PS: I wouldn't have bought Lr if I had known about this debacle.

                                • 13. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                  99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                  If you can’t wait until 26th then please request a refund. Click the link below, sign-in and wait for the page to fully load.

                                  1. Choose Account Issues
                                  2. Choose Adobe ID and signing in
                                  3. Scroll to the bottom of the page and choose - Show me my contact options
                                  4. Click Chat

                                   

                                  https://helpx.adobe.com/contact/support.html

                                  • 14. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                    nbirkett51 Level 1

                                    But it is idle speculation. Do you also suppose that Adobe will come into our homes and offices and seize our hard drives?

                                     

                                    That is not what I said.  If Adobe switches LR so that it only works with uploads to the Cloud, then I am forced to use the cloud if I want to edit photographs.  They don't need to come into my home.  But, they are dictating how I will have to work.

                                     

                                    There are also legal and ethical issues with storing photos on the the cloud.  I work in the medical field and use Adobe products to create graphs, charts, images, etc. for publications.  The terms of the ethical approval of my work prevent me from storing much of my work on external servers, even those housed within my university.  Using an Adobe server would not be allowed, particularly if it is in a different country (I live in Canada).  This concern escalates with the new software Adobe will be using to scan and flag the content of my photos.  Similar issues apply to other types of images (e.g. photos of crime scenes, commercial photography of children).

                                     

                                    I will tell you this, however. It's not just Adobe. Cloud computing is the wave of the future. The cost of remote storage will decrease, not increase. I feel for those in rural areas who lack high-speed Internet, but they have to take that up with local and state regulators—force the providers to service rural areas with fiber or other high-speed wires as the cost of doing business in the cities.

                                     

                                    Again, you are not responding to what I said.  I have no objection to the cloud.  It serves a useful purpose.  But, I must be in charge of my data to decide what information of mine will be posted in the Cloud.  People need to retain control over what is posted.  If Adobe had allowed users of the new LR CC to select what images to post on the cloud, I would have no issue with their model.  But, demanding that every image must be posted to the cloud is intrusive and inappropriate.

                                    • 15. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                      baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                                      Since your 'invitation' to go for a refund I have been online to your chat room. I have now spent over 6½ hours trying to get this crap to work. Your so-called help desk can't and I can't. the last chat chap did a runner and left me waiting for a new connection to a 'special team'. That was 45 minutes ago ~ I'm still waiting.

                                       

                                      What an abysmal bunch of incompetents you all are.

                                       

                                      Now I'll have to get out and old style envelope and write to the UK ceo because you lot are incapable of helping.

                                       

                                      Bye...

                                      • 16. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                        baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                                        and your idiot help desk has ****** up Google Chrome for me.

                                         

                                        DON'T ANYONE LET THE CHAT ROOM HAVE CONTROL OF YOUR SYSTEM.

                                        • 17. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                          Victoria Bampton LR Queen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                          Baz, you're talking to users like yourself. There's no need to call us incompetent, when we're trying to help you. We're not Adobe staff.

                                           

                                          The support systems will be very busy today because practically every application Adobe offers has been updated in the last 24 hours. You may prefer to wait a day or so to save yourself some waiting time.

                                           

                                          The support staff you spoke to were mistaken - humans do occasionally make mistakes - but your new camera will be supported in your Lightroom version on 26 October. You can use them in Lightroom today by using the free DNG converter to convert them to DNG format. https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/digital-negative.html

                                          1 person found this helpful
                                          • 18. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                            baz.stott@btinternet.com Level 1

                                            Sorry! blowing off at those people that work for Adobe. There is no other way of contacting them - I gave up after 1 hour of waiting for the chat room to respond. If they are that busy you have to ask yourself why?

                                             

                                            The people in the chat rooms won't read this blog but perhaps my feelings will get back to them.

                                             

                                            I have deleted Lightroom and will not spend another penny on Adobe stuff.

                                             

                                            I promise; this is my last entry...

                                            • 19. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                              HID Global

                                              Have you seen the article over on DPReview called "RIP Lightroom 6: Death by subscription model"? You'll get a good idea from the masses of feedback - all from keen photographers - about their utter hatred of Adobe's CashCow subscription model. They only used Lightroom because it could be purchased without having to sign up to Adobe's revolting subscription plan.

                                              • 20. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                ProDesignTools MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                From Tom Hogarty today on Adobe's Lightroom blog:

                                                 

                                                Answering Your Questions on Lightroom CC, Lightroom Classic CC and More

                                                1 person found this helpful
                                                • 21. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                  nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                  The blog helps but doesn't address all of the concerns.  Its utility also depends on whether Adobe does what it says.  I have posted a comment on the blog.

                                                   

                                                  I did see that Tom indicated that Adobe might address concerns over the forced uploading of all photos to the cloud.  If user control can be implemented, it will eliminate some of the most worrying concerns and make the changes more palatable.  We'll see how they respond.

                                                   

                                                  BTW, I personally have no objection to the subscription model.  It is the other aspects of the current release which are upsetting me.

                                                  • 22. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                    ProDesignTools MVP & Adobe Community Professional

                                                    Great. Stay tuned; moments ago I just talked with Tom at MAX, and he said he would be getting back to the post to address questions as soon as he was able.

                                                    • 23. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                      Indyboosler Level 1

                                                      "Have you seen the article over on DPReview called "RIP Lightroom 6: Death by subscription model"? You'll get a good idea from the masses of feedback - all from keen photographers - about their utter hatred of Adobe's CashCow subscription model. They only used Lightroom because it could be purchased without having to sign up to Adobe's revolting subscription plan." THEY are the reason the subscription model exists (ie people who buy once and never upgrade). When I started using photoshop about 25 years ago... it was $1000. That you can get Photoshop and Lightroom for $10 a month today is a freaking bargain. And $50/month for all adobe apps! Unreal. I am more than happy to shell out $50/month for what I get.

                                                      • 24. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                        nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                        This thread was not intended to be a complaint about the subscription model.  I pay for the subscription and agree that it is a reasonable approach, as long as new updates do get released. My low monthly fees pay for the on-going development work.  I am also OK with the 'pay once' approach but the cost should be higher (I remember paying well over $1,000 for CS5).  However, once you pay that much larger fee, it seems reasonable that Adobe should not expect more money from you unless they provide a new release with upgrades, etc. because your initial payment is covering your share of the programme development costs.  So, in my view, both models can work.

                                                         

                                                        The purpose of this thread was to address the introduction of the second Lightroom programme with it being tied to a mandatory cloud upload that would force people to place photos on-line rather than work from their personal computer and local copies.  And, force them to pay very high monthly storage rental fees that they don't need for their work. And, impose excessive Internet transfer costs for the uploading. And, the inappropriate (almost deceptive) re-naming and advertising used when the products were released.  That is a very different issue than whether the subscription model is acceptable.

                                                         

                                                        Can we please not conflate these two issues?

                                                        • 25. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                          nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                          No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.  Given the near universally negative responses that I am seeing on the web to the new cloud-based LR offerings, I'm sure he is scrambling.  Adobe needs to respond to this opposition by doing more than posting platitudes and advertising non-messages.

                                                           

                                                          • They could modify their web pages to make 'Classic' more prominent (which might help reassure users that it isn't a terminal product).
                                                          • They could add a feature to the new LR CC to give users control over what photos get uploaded to the cloud.  I know that this would make it more similar to Classic (although the uploads would be RAW, not hi-res previews).  Maybe that should be considered and Classic made the primary LR product at this stage of their development cycle
                                                          • Modify the description of the Photography 'plans' to list LR Classic as part of the package (right now, Classic isn't mentioned in any of the plans on the main LR page)
                                                          • Explain to users how they can implement Tom's suggestion in his post where he says: We clearly understand that there are situations where a customer would not want all of their images uploaded to Creative Cloud so let’s talk about those situations and how we can address them
                                                          • Talk openly and honestly about future plans for LR and PS.  There is a significant trust issue at present since many users see Adobe as back-tracking on a promise to keep a perpetual license version of LR available.  I know that, technically, there wasn't a clear promise to keep it available for all time.  But, the perception was that Adobe had made such a commitment.  Many users no longer trust Adobe's promise that Classic will continue into the future.  Adobe needs to address that trust issue more effectively than with fancy marketing.
                                                          • 26. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                            Victoria Bampton LR Queen Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                            nbirkett51  wrote

                                                             

                                                            No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.

                                                             

                                                            The Management Team, including Tom, are all at the Adobe Max conference this week. They should be back in the office soon though, and hopefully will be able to share more information.

                                                            • 27. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                              nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                              Sorry - my comment was directed at a posting from yesterday afternoon by ProDesignTools which said:

                                                               

                                                              Great. Stay tuned; moments ago I just talked with Tom at MAX, and he said he would be getting back to the post to address questions as soon as he was able.

                                                               

                                                              I was just reporting the he hadn't yet been able to reply.  I do understand that things are busy. But, the complaints and confusion over the new LR release does need attention.

                                                              • 28. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                                https://forums.adobe.com/people/Victoria+Bampton+LR+Queen  wrote

                                                                 

                                                                nbirkett51   wrote

                                                                 

                                                                No responses yet from Tom on his post   I'm sure he is having a busy day.

                                                                 

                                                                The Management Team, including Tom, are all at the Adobe Max conference this week. They should be back in the office soon though, and hopefully will be able to share more information.

                                                                We are now November 2, nearly two weeks after we were told that Tom would be responding to comments on his blog post.  But, there have been no response from him or Adobe.  The user posted comments to his blog entry are nearly all negative.

                                                                • Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.
                                                                • Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.
                                                                • Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.
                                                                • Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

                                                                And, no response from Adobe.

                                                                • 29. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                  99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                  Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.

                                                                  Not sure what you expect to hear. It was the same when Adobe stopped supporting CS6. How do you think loyal subscribers would feel if you could simply get all the new tools for £110 or $150?

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.

                                                                  Adobe rushed out the Lr Classic 7.0.1 update to correct this.

                                                                   

                                                                  Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.

                                                                   

                                                                  It will take time for understanding to spread but Lr CC will become synonymous with the complete suite of desktop and mobile apps comprising the eco system, with automatic backup storage. For those wanting a traditional catalog based on files & folders Lr Classic will continue to meet these needs while giving control over what photos (if any) are added to the could via synchronized collections.

                                                                   

                                                                  Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

                                                                  Lr Classic is available within two of the Photography Plans. For the time being a stand-alone perpetual version of Lr6 can still be purchased from the link below. On-line resellers such as Bestbuy, Amazon (£110 in UK), Costco etc. appear to still have stocks.

                                                                   

                                                                   

                                                                  Shopping Cart

                                                                  • 30. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                    nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                                    This was my summary of the postings, not my personal view of what issue I consider important.  My main point is the lack of response from Tom and Adobe to these complaints.

                                                                    99jon  wrote

                                                                     

                                                                    Many complaints about the enforced subscription model.

                                                                    Not sure what you expect to hear. It was the same when Adobe stopped supporting CS6. How do you think loyal subscribers would feel if you could simply get all the new tools for £110 or $150?

                                                                     

                                                                    I expected a response from Tom about the many complaints that have been made.  Personally, I am fine with the subscription model but many people aren't.  And, there are legitimate complaints that, in the past, Adobe 'hid' the option to pay a one-time fee so that that argument that customer weren't buying it is spurious.

                                                                    I do have very strong objections to forced use of cloud storage and the associated high costs that this will create to users.

                                                                    Many complaints about the enforced cloud uploading with the new LR CC.

                                                                    Adobe rushed out the Lr Classic 7.0.1 update to correct this.

                                                                     

                                                                    I'm not talking about Classic.  I am talking about the new LR CC which, from everything that I have seen, still requires that you update your entire library to the cloud.

                                                                    Many complaints about the naming decisions and the confusion it has caused.

                                                                     

                                                                    It will take time for understanding to spread but Lr CC will become synonymous with the complete suite of desktop and mobile apps comprising the eco system, with automatic backup storage. For those wanting a traditional catalog based on files & folders Lr Classic will continue to meet these needs while giving control over what photos (if any) are added to the could via synchronized collections.

                                                                     

                                                                    As established users, we will all adapt.  But, new users coming to Adobe's Lightroom page will see a big ad for Lightroom CC and assume that this is the same product as last year.  They will not be aware of the nuances of CC vs Classic, etc.  And since Adobe doesn't highlight the Classic on their main page, new users will get the cloud-based CC by default.

                                                                    It is also incorrect to refer to the current cloud system as providing 'back-up' of your photographs.  LR CC clearly sees the cloud storage as the primary image location since the emphasis the ability to access the cloud images from multiple platforms - not a feature of a back-up service.

                                                                    Many complaints about the confusing advertising on Adobe's web site, and the difficulty they created in finding the stand-alone Lightroom in the past and the lack of highlighting of LR Classic on the main pages.

                                                                    Lr Classic is available within two of the Photography Plans. For the time being a stand-alone perpetual version of Lr6 can still be purchased from the link below. On-line resellers such as Bestbuy, Amazon (£110 in UK), Costco etc. appear to still have stocks.

                                                                     

                                                                    Part of this point is not whether you can now buy the stand-alone version.  Rather, the complaints are about Adobe's business practices in the past (which are carrying over some what now).  Adobe made it nearly impossible for users to find the standalone version of Lightroom on their web site.  They then turn around and say 'users over-whelmingly bought the subscription version'.  Well, if user couldn't find how to order the stand-alone version, you can not use their purchasing patterns as evidence that they preferred the subscription model.  That is just bad logic.

                                                                    Adobe is following a similar process with Classic.  Yes, it is available in two packages.  But, Classic does not appear as a major topic on their main Lightroom page.  Have a look at this page: Adobe Creative Cloud Photography plan | Professional photo editing software  It says that the Photography plans include the new Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC, with no mention of Classic.  None of the glossy graphics relates to Classic.  There is line which mentions that the plan includes Classic but it gives no details. And the page it links to gives some information but has a large box about  the cloud version being the 'future of photography'.

                                                                     

                                                                    • 31. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                      David Illig Level 1

                                                                      No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

                                                                       

                                                                      Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? That shows that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, stick with Lightroom Classic CC. The Director of Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                        99jon Adobe Community Professional & MVP

                                                                        It says that the Photography plans include the new Lightroom CC and Photoshop CC, with no mention of Classic.

                                                                         

                                                                        I agree on your point and others have mentioned it also. I think Lr Classic should be more prominent than Photoshop within the Photography plan. Especially as Adobe continues to develop, improve and add new features to Classic.

                                                                        • 33. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                          nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                                          https://forums.adobe.com/people/David+Illig  wrote

                                                                           

                                                                          No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

                                                                           

                                                                          Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? That shows that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, stick with Lightroom Classic CC. The Director of Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC.

                                                                          I do get it - Use Classic if you don't want to be forced to upload raw files to the cloud.  But, your car analogy is a poor one.

                                                                          The problem is that Adobe is focusing and promoting the cloud-based LR CC and that programme is requiring you to upload either everything or nothing.  If you upload, that can add substantial costs (for cloud space rental that it is not needed with local storage).  From what I have read, Classic only can upload previews of images, not the raw files.  So, if you want to be able to upload 'some' raw images, you have to use the cloud-based LR and that means uploading everything.  Adobe could fix this whole debate by releasing a new variant of the cloud-based LR CC that allowed users to choose which images to upload.  Tom said that they recognized that people may not want to upload everything and this would be made possible in the future. Why don't they fix this now?

                                                                          There is also considerable suspicion that Adobe has planned to drop Classic in the near term (2-3 years) and is misleading people with their current announcements.  Their history with the standalone LR version (no promotion of the product, 'hiding' the purchase option, using the phrase 'available indefinitely'), combined with the low key placement of Classic on their web pages and the re-naming, has led to a lack of trust of Adobe,  Their current approach is not doing anything to change this.

                                                                          My comment about Tom's lack of response to his blog is another sign of this - talk openly to people and acknowledge the legitimacy of their concerns.  Then, maybe opinions will start to change.  Instead, legitimate comments and concerns are being ignored. Or worse.

                                                                          • 34. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                            David Illig Level 1

                                                                            You flat don't get it about these two applications, which are separate and not necessarily meant to be used together.

                                                                             

                                                                            No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

                                                                             

                                                                            Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? There's proof that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, don't use it. Tom Hogarty, director of product management for Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC are not meant to be used together. "It's a different team..." "...So one thing I would caution is the way we designed the products, Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC, is that they're really... You should pick one or the other."

                                                                             

                                                                            Your posts represent my first at-the-source look at how fake news begins.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                              nbirkett51 Level 1

                                                                              https://forums.adobe.com/people/David+Illig  wrote

                                                                               

                                                                              You flat don't get it about these two applications, which are separate and not necessarily meant to be used together.

                                                                               

                                                                              No, there haven't been many complaints about the subscription model. A few people whining loudly can easily sound like a mob. There have been relatively few complaints from amateur users; others are busy getting on with their work and their lives.

                                                                               

                                                                              Enforced cloud uploading with Lightroom CC!? There's proof that you don't get it at all. That's like complaining that the maker of your car requires you to have tires on it in order to drive it. The cloud is what Lightroom CC is about! If you don't like it, don't use it. Tom Hogarty, director of product management for Adobe Photography stated explicitly in this recent interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaBeeBUZvAg that Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC are not meant to be used together. "It's a different team..." "...So one thing I would caution is the way we designed the products, Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC, is that they're really... You should pick one or the other."

                                                                               

                                                                              Your posts represent my first at-the-source look at how fake news begins.

                                                                              You are over-stepping the bounds of appropriate debate in your last comment.  I ask that you edit it out.  I am not creating 'fake news' - that is just an attempt to deny the evidence and arguments against Adobe.  On the other hand, maybe I sholud be flattered that you think my post could start a 'fake news' meme.

                                                                              Are you a member of forums such as 'dpreview' or 'Fred Miranda'?  Have you read the comments to Tom's blog post that was cited above?  There are major complaints about the subscription model.  It is also a common view in politics (and elsewhere) that every complaint represents a large number (100 or more) people who share the view but don't write.  Maybe Adobe should do a survey to find out what people think?

                                                                              In any event, you are completely mis-representing my personal view of the subscription model. As I state very clearly (early in this thread), I am NOT opposed to the subscription model for software.  In fact, I use it for my own Adobe products.

                                                                              I am only raising concerns about the subscription model because of the message it sends about Adobe's approach to customers and to explain part of the lack of trust that many people have with Adobe.

                                                                              I repeat - I understand completely that the new cloud-based LR CC and LR Classic are different software packages.  I also understand that you would not normally want to use both of them (although there are times when you might, given the inability of Classic to upload Raw files to the cloud).  But, if you look at Adobe's web pages and advertising, it is impossible to make the case that they are treating the two products equally.  Their own slogan states the the cloud-based LR is the 'future of photography'.  That at least make credible the suggestion that they are being disingenuous in saying that Classic has a long life ahead of it.

                                                                              If you use the cloud based LR, you must upload all photos to the Adobe cloud.  Do you disagree with the statement?  It is clear from Tom's blog post and other information.  So, if you select the cloud-based LR, you will be 'forced' to upload all photos and have no control over which ones to upload.  Again, a clear statement of 'true' fact.  If you have a large photo library (Tom talks about someone having 8TB of images in his blog), your cloud rental costs will be $70/month.  Another 'true' fact based on the latest Adobe pricing information I have seen. So, the monthly cost to use the cloud-based LR will be $90, rather than the stated $10/month for the plan. Again, a 'true' fact.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                                David Illig Level 1

                                                                                ...maybe I sholud be flattered that you think my post could start a 'fake news' meme.

                                                                                 

                                                                                No, you didn't start it. You're just one of the claque, running about in a panic, ranting and raving.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I am only raising concerns about the subscription model because of the message it sends about Adobe's approach to customers and to explain part of the lack of trust that many people have with Adobe.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I get four newspapers, several magazines, Internet service, and cable TV through subscription schemes. What message does that send about the publishers and providers?

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you use the cloud based LR, you must upload all photos to the Adobe cloud.  Do you disagree with the statement?

                                                                                 

                                                                                The statement is irrelevant because one is not forced to use Lightroom CC; Lightroom Classic CC does not require the cloud.

                                                                                 

                                                                                So, if you select the cloud-based LR, you will be 'forced' to upload all photos and have no control over which ones to upload.

                                                                                 

                                                                                You are complaining because a product is doing exactly what it was meant to do. Adobe have made that abundantly clear. If you don't like it, don't use it. Lightroom CC comes with Lightroom Classic CC at no additional cost. But don't conflate the two. Different products, different purposes.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you have a large photo library... your cloud rental costs will be $70/month.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I have found that if I drive more I have to buy more petrol. If you don't want to pay for additional cloud services don't use Lightroom CC.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Complaint about new LR upgrade releases
                                                                                  holderone

                                                                                  I too am disappointed about the pricing model as I do want to use a web based system but the pricing model is outrageou. I pay £110 per year for the traditional CC but would pay £1200 per year for the newer online version. I think in this day and age that is not only prohibitive to non professionals but it is simply out of kilter with other cloud based services with similar storage capacity.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  So the petrol analogy doesn’t work as the additional miles are not proportional in terms of costs.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Such a a shame that Adobe is restricting the use of their new product to professionals or the rich.