10 Replies Latest reply on Nov 2, 2017 3:12 AM by Andy_Baz

    My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????

    Andy_Baz Level 1

      I am trying to achieve a consistent and predictable output of images scanned from my Epson GT10000+ scanner, through photoshop and then into InDesign for final prepping and then printing.

       

      My problem is that my colours are not reproducing anywhere near close enough for me to be happy with, and i have now confused and exhausted my ideas on what settings/actions to implement to rectify it.

       

      Specs:

      iMac 5kRetina

      Adobe CC 2018

      Epson 7800

       

      My process to produce a one off 4pp A4 gift card that contains a scanned piece of color critical artwork on the front cover, and plain text on the rear of the card.

       

      Calibration

      1) Scanner profiling (Epson GT10000+) using i1Pro 2 and IT8 target to create custom $Scanner Profile.

      2) Monitor calibration (iMac 5k Retina) using i1Pro 2.

      3) Printer Profiling using i1Pro 2 (approx 4000 patches) to create custom $Printer Profile.

       

      Image Prep

      4) Scan original document to as 300dpi Tiff, with scanner color management off as recommended by X-rite for i1Pro 2.

      5) Open scanned Tiff in Photoshop, CC (2018), assign $Scanner Profile.

      6) Convert to $Printer Profile.

      7) Make any minor image adjustments whilst comparing to original hard copy and save file.

       

      Printing directly from InDesign

      8) Place TIFF into print ready gift card template in InDesign.

      9) File Print

      10) InDesign print settings:

      - Print composite CMYK

      - Let inDesign determine colours: Printer Profile: $Printer Profile

      11) Printer Settings:

      - Colour Matching: Colorsync: $Printer Profile

      12) Click Print

       

      After having done all this my colours print much darker than the original and the scanned version, and im not sure what im getting wrong in the process!

       

      Please help

        • 1. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
          NB, colourmanagement Adobe Community Professional

          Hi Andy

           

          I feel that it’s important to start with one device in the workflow and make sure that’s right.

          A really simple issue is that the iMac may be running way too much luminance, which would result in dark looking prints.

           

          If I was coming on site to work with you on this, the screen appearance would be the first item that would get some attention.

           

          I feel that to be sure of screen appearance, you need some kind of unequivocal reference to assess [and guide] screen calibration.

          Here’s an example.

          http://www.colourmanagement.net/products/icc-profile-verification-kit

           

          In the absence of an unequivocal reference, and as an initial test, I’d recommend that take my test image and view that, its free to use.

          1: Assess screen appearance - does the appearance seem normal (it’s a bit hard to tell accurately without a reference as mentioned above but it should be possible to know if the screen is miles out as the test-image includes memory. Colours like skin tone.)

           

          2: leave the test-image in Adobe RGB

          make a print of that image using your normal print driver settings [media etc] and usual paper profile.

          Do that first print from photoshop (easier to understand the print settings)

           

          3: try printing the same image after placing into InDesign, they should match.

           

          I am recommending my own test-image for this because that way you are avoiding using an image that’s been edited also it’s not an image from your scanner (both of those are processes which could take an image away from its correct appearance).

           

          Download the test image here: http://www.colourmanagement.net/downloads/CMnet_Pixl_AdobeRGB_testimage05.zip

           

          ::Viewing::

          Also please be aware that correct colourmanagement lines up the appearance of a screen viewed in subdued light with the appearance of a print viewed in full daylight (or in a light booth).

          I have seen users with perfectly set up colourmanagement still doubt print appearance, because they were trying to hold up a print next to the screen for comparison.

          This isn’t going to work - since the screen must be viewed in subdued light this means the print is way under illuminated in those circumstances.

           

           

          Once you get the screen right, now’s the time to look at printer profiles and scanner profiles and application settings to tie it all together.

          Looking at everything in the workflow at once makes it very difficult to move forward.

           

          Also a note about what you write here:

          Image Prep

          4) Scan original document to as 300dpi Tiff, with scanner color management off as recommended by X-rite for i1Pro 2.

          5) Open scanned Tiff in Photoshop, CC (2018), assign $Scanner Profile.

          6) Convert to $Printer Profile.

          7) Make any minor image adjustments whilst comparing to original hard copy and save file.

          I’d change step 6 - you should ideally be using a working space such as Adobe RGB for image prep rather than your printer profile. That way you can save the file and us it on a different paper or printer later.

           

          Convert to the printer profile later on in the workflow.

           

          I hope this helps

          if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution

          thanks

          neil barstow, colourmanagement

          • 2. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
            thedigitaldog MVP & Adobe Community Professional

            Start with the output and display alone by testing a color reference image who's RGB values will produce output (with proper color management) that isn't too dark:

             

            http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

             

            IF that prints fine, we go backwards and look at your scanned data. If it prints too dark, it's the display/print area to examine. If the later:

             

            Why are my prints too dark?

            A video update to a written piece on subject from 2013

             

            In this 24 minute video, I'll cover:

            Are your prints really too dark?

            Display calibration and WYSIWYG

            Proper print viewing conditions

            Trouble shooting to get a match

            Avoiding kludges that don't solve the problem

             

            High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/Why_are_my_prints_too_dark.mp4

            Low resolution: https://youtu.be/iS6sjZmxjY4

            1 person found this helpful
            • 3. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
              D Fosse Adobe Community Professional & MVP

              If the print is too dark, the screen is too bright.

               

              Paper white is your reference. Match monitor white to paper white. You should "see" paper white on screen.

              • 4. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                jdanek Level 4

                Image Prep

                4) Scan original document to as 300dpi Tiff, with scanner color management off as recommended by X-rite for i1Pro 2.  - What happens when you select color management ON in the scanner driver?  If you created a profile, why not use it?

                5) Open scanned Tiff in Photoshop, CC (2018), assign $Scanner Profile.   - That profile should not be used here, but rather when you scan.

                6) Convert to $Printer Profile.  - The printer profile is used when you print, not in Photoshop.  The profile should match the paper you plan to use.

                7) Make any minor image adjustments whilst comparing to original hard copy and save file.  - Any adjustments should be printed and then compared to the original, not on the monitor.

                 

                Printing directly from InDesign

                8) Place TIFF into print ready gift card template in InDesign.

                9) File Print

                10) InDesign print settings:

                - Print composite CMYK

                - Let inDesign determine colours: Printer Profile: $Printer Profile - No.  Use "Let printer determine colors" ( i.e., the profile you created when you calibrated the thing ).

                11) Printer Settings:

                - Colour Matching: Colorsync: $Printer Profile

                12) Click Print

                 

                You've gone through a lot of trouble calibrating everything, but you are not taking advantage of it.  For instance, what RGB profile is the image tagged with?  I'd look at that first.  The scanner profile is used when you scan in the scanner's software ( i.e., the driver ).  The printer's profile is selected when you print using the same paper you created the profile with.  Since you have a profile built for the printer, let the printer determine color.  You could print the RGB image if you wanted to.  Just invest a litle more time experimenting with different RGB tags.

                1 person found this helpful
                • 5. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                  Andy_Baz Level 1

                  Thank you for you these instructions JDanek,

                   

                  You are right, my knowledge falls short of know ing how to correctly use the calibrated profiles and where/when to apply them.

                  I shall retry applying your information see how i get on and report back

                  • 6. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                    NB, colourmanagement Adobe Community Professional

                    Hi jDanek and Andy Baz,

                     

                     

                    I think there are some errors in jDanek’s advice, sorry to point that out.

                     

                     

                    jDanek writes (text in italics)

                    You've gone through a lot of trouble calibrating everything, but you are not taking advantage of it.  For instance, what RGB profile is the image tagged with?  I'd look at that first.

                     

                    Andy is assigning the a scanner profile in step 5, that’s fine - but

                    it's not ideal for image editing - I already advised him to convert (from his scanner profile) to an RGB working space like Adobe RGB (rather than converting to the printer profile)

                     

                    The scanner profile is used when you scan in the scanner's software ( i.e., the driver ).  The printer's profile is selected when you print using the same paper you created the profile with.  Since you have a profile built for the printer, let the printer determine color.

                     

                    Sorry but it’s not right to use “printer manages colour” in this case - Andy Baz has made a custom profile, he MUST use the Adobe application colourmanagement to use it.

                     

                    If Andy uses “printer manages colour” then an Epson supplied profile will be automatically selected - this auto-selection is based on the “media” selected in the print driver.

                     

                     

                    You could print the RGB image if you wanted to.  Just invest a litle more time experimenting with different RGB tags.

                     

                     

                    By "experimenting with different RGB tags", I presume you mean using “assign profile” - this very rarely useful,

                    especially in this case, as Andy has a scanner profile.

                     

                    My advice is to assign the scanner profile and convert to Adobe RGB.

                    Then use Adobe application colourmanagement when printing.

                    That way he is using the custom profiles he made for printer and scanner.

                     

                     

                    I do, however, still think the correct first step is to calibrate the screen properly.

                    If the printer profile is accurate and his prints seem dark then the screen calibration IS too dark.

                    IF, that is, Andy is viewing the prints in full daylight to ***** them

                     

                     

                     

                    I hope this helps Andy

                    if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution

                    thanks

                    neil barstow, colourmanagement

                    • 7. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                      jdanek Level 4

                      I stand by what I recommended.  However, I assumed he'd be able to select the profile in the print dialogues.  I may have been thinking of a RIP scenario.  Epson has good .icc profiles, he could try those as well.  Since he is not happy with the results he has gotten so far, my advice was to try different approaches to see if there is an improvement or not. I would think that should he choose to use "Let application determine color" and he has chosen his profile in InDesign, then he'd use a canned Epson setup to print, there could be a shift in color.  That is my theory.  He is free to choose different settings and perhaps discover what works best for the gift card print.

                       

                      No, I was not referring to "assign" RGB profiles.  In Photoshop, the image would come in already tagged with the scanner RGB profile he created when he calibrated the scanner.  It would be a matter of saving "copies" ( or converting as you've suggested ) of the original using different RGB profiles and naming each one accordingly.  I agree he could use Adobe RGB.  He could also try the others as I've suggested.

                      • 8. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                        jdanek Level 4

                        Andy, can you take a screen shot of your Photoshop and InDesign Color Settings?  Also, can you show the print setup through Epson?  Are your application color settings synced?

                        • 9. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                          jdanek Level 4

                          I am also curious what type of original you scanned.  Is it full color, or metallic, or a spot color printed original?

                          • 10. Re: My colour prints are still way off when using custom made profiles????
                            Andy_Baz Level 1

                            I have taken JDaneks advice and i am now getting much more accurate advice, my application of the profiles was incorrect and and i now understand better how to use them.

                             

                            By assigning the scanner profile in Photoshop i was getting the image to appear differently to what actual data was being sent to the printer, this is what was causing the image to print differently to what was on screen.

                             

                            I have now correctly used the scanner profile by loading it into the scanner driver and changing the source profile, in the epson software, to my calibrated profile.

                             

                            To then get a print that pretty closely matches the screen and the original, i print the image through inDesign, using  'let postscript printer determine colours' and in the printer settings i apply the calibrated printer profile in the colorsync profile area.

                             

                            This method has now got me the print that i desired and a more stable workflow that i can actually trust for further reproductions on other projects.